mnealtx 0 #101 November 10, 2009 Quote> In this case, Bill's data is wrong. So post data you consider to be correct. Ron appears to have already done that.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cliffwhite 0 #102 November 10, 2009 Quote>What ,Bill, was the political objective on 9-11? From Bin Laden himself: "God knows it did not cross our minds to attack the towers but after the situation became unbearable and we witnessed the injustice and tyranny of the American-Israeli alliance against our people in Palestine and Lebanon, I thought about it. And the events that affected me directly were that of 1982 and the events that followed -- when America allowed the Israelis to invade Lebanon, helped by the U.S. Sixth Fleet. As I watched the destroyed towers in Lebanon, it occurred to me punish the unjust the same way (and) to destroy towers in America so it could taste some of what we are tasting and to stop killing our children and women." Interesting! Could you site a source for that quote? Blues, Cliff2muchTruth Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,398 #103 November 10, 2009 From a videotape made by Bin Laden and shown (among other places) on Al-Jazeera. Here's a transcript: http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2004/oct/30/alqaida.september11 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,398 #104 November 10, 2009 >Ron appears to have already done that. ?? Ron posted numbers from Texas, not for the US at large. He also didn't list how many of those people were involved in shooting sprees, or how many people died total in shooting sprees. If you recall, his original question was "How about you tell us how many people with a permit to carry have gone on a shooting spree?" I haven't seen him provide an answer to his own question, other than to tell me I'm wrong. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cliffwhite 0 #105 November 10, 2009 QuoteFrom a videotape made by Bin Laden and shown (among other places) on Al-Jazeera. Here's a transcript: http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2004/oct/30/alqaida.september11 Oh yes! I've seen that tape!!!! The problem is that that Bin Laden has a much broader nose than the real Bin Laden. Also he is signing documents with his right hand when Bin Laden is left handed. Most telling is that the "Bin Laden" in the video is wearing a gold ring. It is against Islam and an afront to Allah for a man to wear jewlery. Do you really believe your source,Bill? Blues, Cliff2muchTruth Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kennedy 0 #106 November 10, 2009 His data was fine, though very limited. Your interpretation was flawed. See my post above. (did you really not think you were making a huge leap to imply that the data he mentioned could be expanded and applied nationwide over a year's time?)witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1* Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyChimp 0 #107 November 10, 2009 Quote>You are correct.... and furthermore this incident is and act of Terrorism, >not "violence" like Obama said in his statement. Terrorism is a political act intended to accomplish a political objective through violence and the fear it produces. What was the political objective here? Are you serious??? His statements about how America was violating Muslim rights with the war in the middle east which includes but is not limited to our soldiers having justice served in due time. That's political buddy. Does anyone else find it funny that we made a SPORT out of an EMERGENCY PROCEDURE?!?! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,398 #108 November 10, 2009 >Do you really believe your source,Bill? Do I believe it 100%? Nope. Do I believe it more than the ramblings of conspiracy theorists? Yep. Occam was a pretty smart guy. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cliffwhite 0 #109 November 10, 2009 Quote>Do you really believe your source,Bill? Do I believe it 100%? Nope. Do I believe it more than the ramblings of conspiracy theorists? Yep. Quote Wait ...It's a video tape! You are gonna talk percentages? It's either 100% or nothing! Do you believe 100% that the man on that tape is Usama Ben Laden ? It was vetted by the CIA!! But the star of the show has on a gold ring and is right handed. Do you believe 100% ,Billvon, that that tape shows Osama Ben Laden confessing to the crimes of 9-11-01? Blues, Cliff2muchTruth Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 2,398 #110 November 10, 2009 >It's either 100% or nothing! Do you believe 100% that the man on that >tape is Usama Ben Laden ? I didn't know it was either 100% or nothing! I have on occasion seen shades of gray. But no matter; I am sure I was just seeing things. In that case, do you believe the stuff you read on the web 100% or 0%? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Ron 7 #111 November 10, 2009 Quote On the whole I'd trust Bill's math over yours any day. Appeal to Authority. How about you factor in that he took his data from an article *I* provided and ignored the XL sheet of data I provided that came from the TX Department of Justice?"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Ron 7 #112 November 10, 2009 Quote I did. Everything there is supportable. If you would like to refute it, you might want to do some of your own. I did. In fact, I GAVE you the little blurb you tried to use. Funny thing is, you ran with it and ignore the DATA on the XL sheet that came from the TX Department of Justice. So you cherry picked some data I pulled off of an article and ignored data from a solid source. QuoteSo post data you consider to be correct. I did, you ignored it. QuoteRon posted numbers from Texas, not for the US at large So let me see if I get this right: A. I provide a quote from an article, you take those numbers and work some math to come up with a rate you like and defend. B. I provide data from the TX Department of Justice for an entire State that has CHL/CWP. You somehow think that "A" is a valid example of the whole US, but "B" is not? That's just not logical."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites bullin82 0 #113 November 10, 2009 Most telling is that the "Bin Laden" in the video is wearing a gold ring. It is against Islam and an afront to Allah for a man to wear jewlery. Really so you think ALL muslims follow ALL the rules of Islam?? Wierd since i see Muslims all the time here in Iraq, when i was in Afgahnistan and America wearing jewlery, not praying when there suppose to and yes even eating pork. so that little factoid has no pull. Now the left hand thing is credable but the nose?? i guess you and him are close personal friends were you know that. But i guess 1 out os 3 statments bing credable isnt to bad Me personaly i think hes been dead for years but theres no proof yet. i mean how long can a man live on kidney dialesis in a cave?? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites SkyDekker 1,122 #114 November 10, 2009 QuoteYou clearly don't understand the military. The military is not supposed to be used inside the US... So, why would they be armed everyday? Same reason the general public should be armed in your opinion. Why would they be excluded from being allowed to carry personal fire arms? Why does the military not allow its member's to carry personal fire arms? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Ron 7 #115 November 10, 2009 QuoteSame reason the general public should be armed in your opinion. No, that is YOUR opinion. I don't think that the military arms should be carried anymore than I think that I should be allowed to take the military's humvee for a joy ride. QuoteWhy would they be excluded from being allowed to carry personal fire arms? Why are people with a CHL not allowed to carry in a post office? People are not normally allowed to carry on Federal property. QuoteWhy does the military not allow its member's to carry personal fire arms? Same reason the Post office does not allow people to carry, the same reason that courthouse employees are not allowed to carry.... Probably the same reason my company does not allow people to carry in the office. That does not mean I agree with it, but it is WHY."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites SkyChimp 0 #116 November 11, 2009 QuoteSame reason the general public should be armed in your opinion. Why would they be excluded from being allowed to carry personal fire arms? As citizens we have the right to bare arms. The military are always under direction of their command and if the command policy or base directives instruct personnel not to carry arms on base, then they must follow those directives. As far as "why" that is the rule is up for debate. I personally think that since our military was armed on post 24-7 in the 1940's and back to the 1800's has a lot to do with a person's individualism and the change of our culture here within the United States. Back in those days our military memebers were not influenced by Youtube, Myspace, Facebook, Fox News, CNN, etc..... People's opinions and beliefs are changed quickly under the influence of conventional wisdom pumped thru the vein of the Press. Therefore, I think it's a trust issue with the Department of Defense. We live in a culture today where the patriotism is what it used to be and other countries opinions are shaping our America when we should be worried about what's best for us. Does anyone else find it funny that we made a SPORT out of an EMERGENCY PROCEDURE?!?! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites SkyDekker 1,122 #117 November 11, 2009 QuoteNo, that is YOUR opinion. I don't think that the military arms should be carried anymore than I think that I should be allowed to take the military's humvee for a joy ride. You know very well I was talking about personal arms and not military arms. It really is useless to have a conversation with somebody who keeps changing the subject... I like Ben & Jerry ice cream QuoteSame reason the Post office does not allow people to carry, the same reason that courthouse employees are not allowed to carry.... Probably the same reason my company does not allow people to carry in the office. That does not mean I agree with it, but it is WHY. Funny thing is, you have been a very strong voice on these boards against gun free zones. Why is it that you are not strongly condemning the military for making bases gun free zones? Most I have seen in this thread is pro gun people making excuses as to why the military should not be allowed to carry personal weapons. (I figured I would define that for you again, maybe that will stop you from changing the subject again...) Not a big fan of McDonals, really prefer Wendy's. In my opinion, if you are going to change gun-free zones, it would make sense to start in an area where most people are highly trained and go from there. probably makes more sense than starting at a university. Don't you agree? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Ron 7 #118 November 11, 2009 QuoteYou know very well I was talking about personal arms and not military arms. No, before you were talking about military arms. Quote It really is useless to have a conversation with somebody who keeps changing the subject... Yes, so please quit doing it. Now, you can piss and moan or accept that there was a error in communication and move on. PLUS, I answered the civilian question... so focus on that if that was your original intent. QuoteFunny thing is, you have been a very strong voice on these boards against gun free zones. Why is it that you are not strongly condemning the military for making bases gun free zones? Where have you see me NOT take that stance? Or are you just making shit up? Please notice the part I bolded: "Same reason the Post office does not allow people to carry, the same reason that courthouse employees are not allowed to carry.... Probably the same reason my company does not allow people to carry in the office. That does not mean I agree with it, but it is WHY." I don't see how you can take that any other way than I don't agree with it. Where have you seen me ONCE defend the position you stated? QuoteMost I have seen in this thread is pro gun people making excuses as to why the military should not be allowed to carry personal weapons. (I figured I would define that for you again, maybe that will stop you from changing the subject again...) Again... show where *I* said that, or admit I didn't QuoteIn my opinion, if you are going to change gun-free zones, it would make sense to start in an area where most people are highly trained and go from there. probably makes more sense than starting at a university. Don't you agree? No. 1. The ratio of military shootings versus school shooting points towards the schools being the area where it might help the most. 2. Military installations in general are MUCH more secure than collage campuses. I have NEVER been searched going to school, but my car and myself are subject to search on EVERY visit to a military installation. You can walk onto almost any school, yet you have to pass through a gate to get on most military posts. 3. There is some credibility to the idea that when you enlist, you give up some of your rights.... The military can tell you who you can hang out with, where you can go, when you can do things, what types of things you can say.... While I don't agree, this is all true. So: 1. Show where *I* have said what you are claiming, or admit *I* have not. 2. *I* think a citizens rights (to include the 2nd) should not be taken away unless they are in custody for a crime."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites SkyDekker 1,122 #119 November 11, 2009 QuoteWhere have you see me NOT take that stance? Or are you just making shit up? I would just expect you to be just as vocal about it on military installations. Specially after this shooting, which obviously could have been avoided if military personnel were allowed to carry their personal firearms. QuoteAgain... show where *I* said that, or admit I didn't Show me where *I* said *you* said that, or admit I didn't. QuoteI* think a citizens rights (to include the 2nd) should not be taken away unless they are in custody for a crime. Do you believe an Army cadet should be allowed to carry his personal firearm during basic training? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Ron 7 #120 November 12, 2009 QuoteShow me where *I* said *you* said that, or admit I didn't. Sure, how about in this very post of yours? "I would just expect you to be just as vocal about it on military installations. " QuoteDo you believe an Army cadet should be allowed to carry his personal firearm during basic training? No, it is basic training. Do you think a citizen should be allowed to carry when he goes shopping?"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites SkyDekker 1,122 #121 November 12, 2009 QuoteNo, it is basic training. So military students should not carry during training, but civilian students should. Somehow this doesn't make sense to me. QuoteDo you think a citizen should be allowed to carry when he goes shopping? In the US, sure, isn't that what your 2nd amendmend is all about? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites warpedskydiver 0 #122 November 12, 2009 Try actually serving then tell all of us how your imagination differs from reality. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites SkyDekker 1,122 #123 November 12, 2009 QuoteTry actually serving then tell all of us how your imagination differs from reality. Such a useless comment. I don't understand how people propose that everybody should be able to carry firearms anywhere, yet the military should be exempt. Since you, spectre, are such an expert. Why not try and explain it without top secret remarks, innuendo etc. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Ron 7 #124 November 12, 2009 QuoteSo military students should not carry during training, but civilian students should. Somehow this doesn't make sense to me. That's simply because you have never been in Basic training. In college, you can walk out anytime you like. You are not under direct control 24/7 like you are in basic. If a Professor starts yelling at you and cussing you out.... You can just drop his class and walk away. BASIC is designed to stress you out and wear you down physically, mentally, and emotionally. It is the most stressful situation most people will ever face. You are not allowed civilian clothes in BASIC, you are not allowed books in BASIC, why would they allow you guns when they don't allow you gum? Additionally, care to list the number of shooting deaths at a BASIC training unit caused by an attacker? You should learn more about the differences before you make strong opinions about the differences or similarities."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites SkyDekker 1,122 #125 November 12, 2009 QuoteThat's simply because you have never been in Basic training. In college, you can walk out anytime you like. You are not under direct control 24/7 like you are in basic. If a Professor starts yelling at you and cussing you out.... You can just drop his class and walk away. BASIC is designed to stress you out and wear you down physically, mentally, and emotionally. It is the most stressful situation most people will ever face. You are not allowed civilian clothes in BASIC, you are not allowed books in BASIC, why would they allow you guns when they don't allow you gum? Additionally, care to list the number of shooting deaths at a BASIC training unit caused by an attacker? You should learn more about the differences before you make strong opinions about the differences or similarities. So your argument is that in high stress situations, people should not have guns, or they might be tempted to use them? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 Next Page 5 of 12 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0 Go To Topic Listing
billvon 2,398 #110 November 10, 2009 >It's either 100% or nothing! Do you believe 100% that the man on that >tape is Usama Ben Laden ? I didn't know it was either 100% or nothing! I have on occasion seen shades of gray. But no matter; I am sure I was just seeing things. In that case, do you believe the stuff you read on the web 100% or 0%? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 7 #111 November 10, 2009 Quote On the whole I'd trust Bill's math over yours any day. Appeal to Authority. How about you factor in that he took his data from an article *I* provided and ignored the XL sheet of data I provided that came from the TX Department of Justice?"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 7 #112 November 10, 2009 Quote I did. Everything there is supportable. If you would like to refute it, you might want to do some of your own. I did. In fact, I GAVE you the little blurb you tried to use. Funny thing is, you ran with it and ignore the DATA on the XL sheet that came from the TX Department of Justice. So you cherry picked some data I pulled off of an article and ignored data from a solid source. QuoteSo post data you consider to be correct. I did, you ignored it. QuoteRon posted numbers from Texas, not for the US at large So let me see if I get this right: A. I provide a quote from an article, you take those numbers and work some math to come up with a rate you like and defend. B. I provide data from the TX Department of Justice for an entire State that has CHL/CWP. You somehow think that "A" is a valid example of the whole US, but "B" is not? That's just not logical."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bullin82 0 #113 November 10, 2009 Most telling is that the "Bin Laden" in the video is wearing a gold ring. It is against Islam and an afront to Allah for a man to wear jewlery. Really so you think ALL muslims follow ALL the rules of Islam?? Wierd since i see Muslims all the time here in Iraq, when i was in Afgahnistan and America wearing jewlery, not praying when there suppose to and yes even eating pork. so that little factoid has no pull. Now the left hand thing is credable but the nose?? i guess you and him are close personal friends were you know that. But i guess 1 out os 3 statments bing credable isnt to bad Me personaly i think hes been dead for years but theres no proof yet. i mean how long can a man live on kidney dialesis in a cave?? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,122 #114 November 10, 2009 QuoteYou clearly don't understand the military. The military is not supposed to be used inside the US... So, why would they be armed everyday? Same reason the general public should be armed in your opinion. Why would they be excluded from being allowed to carry personal fire arms? Why does the military not allow its member's to carry personal fire arms? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 7 #115 November 10, 2009 QuoteSame reason the general public should be armed in your opinion. No, that is YOUR opinion. I don't think that the military arms should be carried anymore than I think that I should be allowed to take the military's humvee for a joy ride. QuoteWhy would they be excluded from being allowed to carry personal fire arms? Why are people with a CHL not allowed to carry in a post office? People are not normally allowed to carry on Federal property. QuoteWhy does the military not allow its member's to carry personal fire arms? Same reason the Post office does not allow people to carry, the same reason that courthouse employees are not allowed to carry.... Probably the same reason my company does not allow people to carry in the office. That does not mean I agree with it, but it is WHY."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyChimp 0 #116 November 11, 2009 QuoteSame reason the general public should be armed in your opinion. Why would they be excluded from being allowed to carry personal fire arms? As citizens we have the right to bare arms. The military are always under direction of their command and if the command policy or base directives instruct personnel not to carry arms on base, then they must follow those directives. As far as "why" that is the rule is up for debate. I personally think that since our military was armed on post 24-7 in the 1940's and back to the 1800's has a lot to do with a person's individualism and the change of our culture here within the United States. Back in those days our military memebers were not influenced by Youtube, Myspace, Facebook, Fox News, CNN, etc..... People's opinions and beliefs are changed quickly under the influence of conventional wisdom pumped thru the vein of the Press. Therefore, I think it's a trust issue with the Department of Defense. We live in a culture today where the patriotism is what it used to be and other countries opinions are shaping our America when we should be worried about what's best for us. Does anyone else find it funny that we made a SPORT out of an EMERGENCY PROCEDURE?!?! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,122 #117 November 11, 2009 QuoteNo, that is YOUR opinion. I don't think that the military arms should be carried anymore than I think that I should be allowed to take the military's humvee for a joy ride. You know very well I was talking about personal arms and not military arms. It really is useless to have a conversation with somebody who keeps changing the subject... I like Ben & Jerry ice cream QuoteSame reason the Post office does not allow people to carry, the same reason that courthouse employees are not allowed to carry.... Probably the same reason my company does not allow people to carry in the office. That does not mean I agree with it, but it is WHY. Funny thing is, you have been a very strong voice on these boards against gun free zones. Why is it that you are not strongly condemning the military for making bases gun free zones? Most I have seen in this thread is pro gun people making excuses as to why the military should not be allowed to carry personal weapons. (I figured I would define that for you again, maybe that will stop you from changing the subject again...) Not a big fan of McDonals, really prefer Wendy's. In my opinion, if you are going to change gun-free zones, it would make sense to start in an area where most people are highly trained and go from there. probably makes more sense than starting at a university. Don't you agree? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 7 #118 November 11, 2009 QuoteYou know very well I was talking about personal arms and not military arms. No, before you were talking about military arms. Quote It really is useless to have a conversation with somebody who keeps changing the subject... Yes, so please quit doing it. Now, you can piss and moan or accept that there was a error in communication and move on. PLUS, I answered the civilian question... so focus on that if that was your original intent. QuoteFunny thing is, you have been a very strong voice on these boards against gun free zones. Why is it that you are not strongly condemning the military for making bases gun free zones? Where have you see me NOT take that stance? Or are you just making shit up? Please notice the part I bolded: "Same reason the Post office does not allow people to carry, the same reason that courthouse employees are not allowed to carry.... Probably the same reason my company does not allow people to carry in the office. That does not mean I agree with it, but it is WHY." I don't see how you can take that any other way than I don't agree with it. Where have you seen me ONCE defend the position you stated? QuoteMost I have seen in this thread is pro gun people making excuses as to why the military should not be allowed to carry personal weapons. (I figured I would define that for you again, maybe that will stop you from changing the subject again...) Again... show where *I* said that, or admit I didn't QuoteIn my opinion, if you are going to change gun-free zones, it would make sense to start in an area where most people are highly trained and go from there. probably makes more sense than starting at a university. Don't you agree? No. 1. The ratio of military shootings versus school shooting points towards the schools being the area where it might help the most. 2. Military installations in general are MUCH more secure than collage campuses. I have NEVER been searched going to school, but my car and myself are subject to search on EVERY visit to a military installation. You can walk onto almost any school, yet you have to pass through a gate to get on most military posts. 3. There is some credibility to the idea that when you enlist, you give up some of your rights.... The military can tell you who you can hang out with, where you can go, when you can do things, what types of things you can say.... While I don't agree, this is all true. So: 1. Show where *I* have said what you are claiming, or admit *I* have not. 2. *I* think a citizens rights (to include the 2nd) should not be taken away unless they are in custody for a crime."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,122 #119 November 11, 2009 QuoteWhere have you see me NOT take that stance? Or are you just making shit up? I would just expect you to be just as vocal about it on military installations. Specially after this shooting, which obviously could have been avoided if military personnel were allowed to carry their personal firearms. QuoteAgain... show where *I* said that, or admit I didn't Show me where *I* said *you* said that, or admit I didn't. QuoteI* think a citizens rights (to include the 2nd) should not be taken away unless they are in custody for a crime. Do you believe an Army cadet should be allowed to carry his personal firearm during basic training? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 7 #120 November 12, 2009 QuoteShow me where *I* said *you* said that, or admit I didn't. Sure, how about in this very post of yours? "I would just expect you to be just as vocal about it on military installations. " QuoteDo you believe an Army cadet should be allowed to carry his personal firearm during basic training? No, it is basic training. Do you think a citizen should be allowed to carry when he goes shopping?"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,122 #121 November 12, 2009 QuoteNo, it is basic training. So military students should not carry during training, but civilian students should. Somehow this doesn't make sense to me. QuoteDo you think a citizen should be allowed to carry when he goes shopping? In the US, sure, isn't that what your 2nd amendmend is all about? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
warpedskydiver 0 #122 November 12, 2009 Try actually serving then tell all of us how your imagination differs from reality. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,122 #123 November 12, 2009 QuoteTry actually serving then tell all of us how your imagination differs from reality. Such a useless comment. I don't understand how people propose that everybody should be able to carry firearms anywhere, yet the military should be exempt. Since you, spectre, are such an expert. Why not try and explain it without top secret remarks, innuendo etc. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 7 #124 November 12, 2009 QuoteSo military students should not carry during training, but civilian students should. Somehow this doesn't make sense to me. That's simply because you have never been in Basic training. In college, you can walk out anytime you like. You are not under direct control 24/7 like you are in basic. If a Professor starts yelling at you and cussing you out.... You can just drop his class and walk away. BASIC is designed to stress you out and wear you down physically, mentally, and emotionally. It is the most stressful situation most people will ever face. You are not allowed civilian clothes in BASIC, you are not allowed books in BASIC, why would they allow you guns when they don't allow you gum? Additionally, care to list the number of shooting deaths at a BASIC training unit caused by an attacker? You should learn more about the differences before you make strong opinions about the differences or similarities."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,122 #125 November 12, 2009 QuoteThat's simply because you have never been in Basic training. In college, you can walk out anytime you like. You are not under direct control 24/7 like you are in basic. If a Professor starts yelling at you and cussing you out.... You can just drop his class and walk away. BASIC is designed to stress you out and wear you down physically, mentally, and emotionally. It is the most stressful situation most people will ever face. You are not allowed civilian clothes in BASIC, you are not allowed books in BASIC, why would they allow you guns when they don't allow you gum? Additionally, care to list the number of shooting deaths at a BASIC training unit caused by an attacker? You should learn more about the differences before you make strong opinions about the differences or similarities. So your argument is that in high stress situations, people should not have guns, or they might be tempted to use them? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
