cliffwhite 0 #26 October 27, 2009 QuoteAt the risk of being completly burned by your anti military remarks i would say i would be an insurget/militia since technically im in a malitia now (national guard). so go ahead and start your flame Listen, I'm not looking to "burn" anybody here but, when you think about the wars in Afganistan and Iraq, aren't we fighting mostly "insurgents,militia,and rebels? It appears to me that those we are fighting are much like ourselves. It's not that they are terrorists . They are simply civilians who are pissed that an occupying force forced their way into their country and stayed for eight years. Kinda what some 85% of SC claim they would do. So why are we there? Who are we really fighting and for what purpose/ end goal? Blues, Cliff2muchTruth Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nerdgirl 0 #27 October 27, 2009 Quote Listen, I'm not looking to "burn" anybody here but, when you think about the wars in Afganistan and Iraq, aren't we fighting mostly "insurgents,militia,and rebels? It appears to me that those we are fighting are much like ourselves. They are simply civilians who are pissed that an occupying force forced their way into their country and stayed for eight years. 96% of the Afghan population, as of January 2009, wants someone other than the Taliban running the country. Altho’ I don’t know off the top of my head a good source for percentage of Colonial Americans who wanted to remain British subjects, I’m betting it was larger than 4%. /Marg Act as if everything you do matters, while laughing at yourself for thinking anything you do matters. Tibetan Buddhist saying Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cliffwhite 0 #28 October 27, 2009 Quote Quote Listen, I'm not looking to "burn" anybody here but, when you think about the wars in Afganistan and Iraq, aren't we fighting mostly "insurgents,militia,and rebels? It appears to me that those we are fighting are much like ourselves. They are simply civilians who are pissed that an occupying force forced their way into their country and stayed for eight years. 96% of the Afghan population, as of January 2009, wants someone other than the Taliban running the country. Altho’ I don’t know off the top of my head a good source for percentage of Colonial Americans who wanted to remain British subjects, I’m betting it was larger than 4%. /Marg It may be true that they want someone other than the Taliban,nerdgirl. The fact that they are shooting at and blowing up our soldiers might be a subtle indication that they don't want "us" running their country. Blues, Cliff2muchTruth Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
warpedskydiver 0 #29 October 27, 2009 The ones doing the blowing up and shooting are largely paid to do so or are doing so under threats of them and their entire family being killed. The Taliban is not stupid, they work through others to do their dirty work. This is the way they act as force multipliers, otherwise if the opposition was only hard core Taliban, we may have already wiped them out. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cliffwhite 0 #30 October 27, 2009 QuoteThe ones doing the blowing up and shooting are largely paid to do so or are doing so under threats of them and their entire family being killed. The Taliban is not stupid, they work through others to do their dirty work. This is the way they act as force multipliers, otherwise if the opposition was only hard core Taliban, we may have already wiped them out. We haven't "wiped them out" after eight years,warpedskydiver. The fact of the oppositions' longevity may indicate that it isn't only the Taliban who have a problem with us being in their country. Perhaps we've pissed off enough of the *normal* Afghan citizens by our indescriminate airstrikes that we will never "win their hearts and minds". Perhaps there is a reason that Afghanistan has been called "The Graveyard of Empires". Blues, Cliff PS; how many American Service men have lost their lives to that imperialistic war? How many injured?2muchTruth Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
warpedskydiver 0 #31 October 27, 2009 Read what I said, not what you want to think I said. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cliffwhite 0 #32 October 27, 2009 QuoteRead what I said, not what you want to think I said. Yes, warpedskydiver, I read what you wrote. Do you think that a large part of the insurgency are just everyday Afghanis who simply object to a foreign occupation force being in their faces? Blues, Cliff2muchTruth Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
miked10270 0 #33 October 27, 2009 QuoteAltho’ I don’t know off the top of my head a good source for percentage of Colonial Americans who wanted to remain British subjects, I’m betting it was larger than 4%. /Marg I understood that more Americans (of the time) were against independence. Many subsequently moved to The Bahamas after 1776. As to the original question... I'm a Scot, so I have to answer from my own perspective. I would VOTE against independence for Scotland. If Scotland were to vote for independence, and then it was denied (or invaded)... I would fight for independence despite my personal views. I know it seems confused, but without collective freedom there's no personal freedom. Mike. Taking the piss out of the FrenchAmericans since before it was fashionable. Prenait la pisse hors du FrançaisCanadiens méridionaux puisqu'avant lui à la mode. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #34 October 27, 2009 Quote Quote Listen, I'm not looking to "burn" anybody here but, when you think about the wars in Afganistan and Iraq, aren't we fighting mostly "insurgents,militia,and rebels? It appears to me that those we are fighting are much like ourselves. They are simply civilians who are pissed that an occupying force forced their way into their country and stayed for eight years. 96% of the Afghan population, as of January 2009, wants someone other than the Taliban running the country. Altho’ I don’t know off the top of my head a good source for percentage of Colonial Americans who wanted to remain British subjects, I’m betting it was larger than 4%. /Marg HOLY shit it looks like they have a far lower percentage of their population who are Taliban dead enders than the American Taliban dead enders. I guess they have been witness to what living in a fundamentalist theocracy is really like and have decided its not for them after all. Something some of our dead enders might want to consider. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
timmyfitz 0 #35 October 27, 2009 Quote Quote Quote Listen, I'm not looking to "burn" anybody here but, when you think about the wars in Afganistan and Iraq, aren't we fighting mostly "insurgents,militia,and rebels? It appears to me that those we are fighting are much like ourselves. They are simply civilians who are pissed that an occupying force forced their way into their country and stayed for eight years. 96% of the Afghan population, as of January 2009, wants someone other than the Taliban running the country. Altho’ I don’t know off the top of my head a good source for percentage of Colonial Americans who wanted to remain British subjects, I’m betting it was larger than 4%. /Marg HOLY shit it looks like they have a far lower percentage of their population who are Taliban dead enders than the American Taliban dead enders. I guess they have been witness to what living in a fundamentalist theocracy is really like and have decided its not for them after all. Something some of our dead enders might want to consider. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jcd11235 0 #36 October 27, 2009 Quote96% of the Afghan population, as of January 2009, wants someone other than the Taliban running the country. Actually, only 92%, since 4% of those polled had no opinion. Even that number is misleading, given the other data from the poll to which you linked. With expectations for security and economic development unmet, the number of Afghans who say their country is headed in the right direction has dived from 77 percent in 2005 to 40 percent now – fewer than half for the first time in these polls. … The number who say the United States has performed well in Afghanistan has been more than halved, from 68 percent in 2005 to 32 percent now. … And 25 percent now say attacks on U.S. or NATO/ISAF forces can be justified, double the level, 13 percent, in 2006. … While Afghans likely will welcome a new strategy, they’re far cooler on new troops: Contrary to Washington’s plans, just 18 percent say the number of U.S. and NATO/ISAF forces in Afghanistan should be increased. Far more, 44 percent, want the opposite – a decrease in the level of these forces. … Civilian casualties in U.S. or NATO/ISAF air strikes are a key complaint. Seventy-seven percent of Afghans call such strikes unacceptable, saying the risk to civilians outweighs the value of these raids in fighting insurgents. And Western forces take more of the blame for such casualties, a public relations advantage for anti-government forces: Forty-one percent of Afghans chiefly blame U.S. or NATO/ISAF forces for poor targeting, vs. 28 percent who mainly blame the insurgents for concealing themselves among civilians. Given that view, more Afghans now blame the country’s strife on the United States and its allies than on the Taliban. Thirty-six percent mostly blame U.S., Afghan or NATO forces or the U.S. or Afghan governments for the violence that’s occurring, up by 10 points from 2007. Fewer, 27 percent, now mainly blame the Taliban, down by 9 points. … In 2005, still celebrating the Taliban’s ouster in November 2001, 83 percent of Afghans approved of the work of President Karzai and 80 percent approved of the national government overall. Today those have slid to 52 and 49 percent respectively. … Among people who report bombing or shelling by U.S. or NATO/ISAF forces in their area, support for the presence of U.S. forces drops to 46 percent, vs. 70 percent among those who report no such activity. There’s a similar pattern in support for retribution against U.S. or NATO/ISAF forces. While 25 percent of all Afghans now say violence against such forces can be justified, that jumps to 44 percent among those who report air strikes or shelling in their area. It’s a similar 45 percent in the South and East, where the fighting has been most intense. … And 43 percent say the Taliban have grown stronger in the past year, well more than the 24 percent who think the movement has weakened. Notably more in the South – 55 percent – say the Taliban have grown stronger. And in Helmand province, the heart of the opium trade that’s said to finance the group, 63 percent say the Taliban have gained strength. In the more peaceful North, the opposite: Slightly more there say the Taliban have weakened. The Taliban are far from achieving popular support – across a range of measures the group still is shunned by large majorities of Afghans. But 22 percent say it has at least some support in their area, and this soars to 57 percent in the Southwest overall, including 64 percent in its home base, Kandahar. That’s up sharply from 44 percent in the Southwest last year, and up from 41 percent in Kandahar. There’s also evidence the Taliban have made some progress rebranding themselves. Twenty-four percent of Afghans say it’s their impression the Taliban “have changed and become more moderate” – far from a majority, but one in four. And that view spikes in some provinces – most notably, to 58 percent in Wardak and 53 percent in Nangarhar, bordering Kabul to the west and east, respectively. In any case there’s been a significant drop in the number of Afghans who call the U.S.- led invasion and overthrow of the Taliban a good thing for their country – 69 percent, still a substantial majority but well below the 88 percent who said so in 2006. And while 63 percent still support the presence of the U.S. military in Afghanistan, that’s down from 78 percent in 2006, with “strong” support for the U.S. presence down from 30 percent then to just 12 percent now. Some trends: As of January, 2009, … Fewer Afghanis polled described things to be good than in 2005 in the following areas: Living conditions, Security from crime and violence, Availability of jobs/Economic opportunities, Availability of food, Local schools, Rights of women (since '06), Freedom of movement (since '07), Present government, Hamid Karzai as president of Afghanistan, Provincial government here, and The United States in Afghanistan. More Afghanis polled described things to be good than in 2005 in the following areas: Roads, bridges and other infrastructure, Availability of clean water, Supply of electricity, and Availability of medical care. In January of 2009, four times as many Afghanis would rather have the Taliban ruling in Afghanistan than in 2005. Corruption in government is perceived as being increasing. Support for Taliban fighters is up from 2005.Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
