Illegal Alien Costume: Should it be banned?

[rehmwa 2]

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Absolutely not.

Freedom of speech baby :)

there's nothing to do with speech here.
freedom to dress maybe

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Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[lost_n_confuzd 0]

No, it is speech. Speech as in the 1st Amendment is not limited to verbal words. To name a few, dess and flag burning fall under freedom of speech.

[Andy9o8 0]

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No, it is speech. Speech as in the 1st Amendment is not limited to verbal words. To name a few, dess and flag burning fall under freedom of speech.

Dress and flag-burning CAN fall under freedom of speech. Context is crucial.

[rehmwa 2]

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No, it is speech. Speech as in the 1st Amendment is not limited to verbal words. To name a few, dess and flag burning fall under freedom of speech.

yeah, sure, in the right context is falls under the protections

I'm stating my opinion - that using free speech arguments to support issues like this dilutes the true spirit of the context.

Flag burning and dress codes are intellectually weak applications of the concept and typically are just reflections by people that don't really know what they are trying to "state" other than they are upset about something they don't understand. Or, they have no idea how to express their views except in ways that are not courteous or productive.

Also - they are used in legal arguments all the time to protect someone that wasn't even trying to make a 'statement' at the time other than they were being drunk and stupid. "Hey, I was peeing on the courthouse because of man's inhumanity to man - it's SPEECH" (no, you were drunk and had to take a wiz, and now you want to get out of the fine and jail time).

90% of free speech cases are nonsense - and it really takes away from the 10% that are true. And no, I do not want to be the guy that has to sift those things out. Because dealing with the idiots that abuse it would not be an exercise in discussion and logic.

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Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[rehmwa 2]

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Dress and flag-burning CAN fall under freedom of speech. Context is crucial.

agreed - but I suspect that there's better ways to get one's point across in lieu of emotive displays and tantrums

"why ya burning that flag?" (usually not his property, BTW)

"because I'm MAD"

"why are you mad"

"errr, that political party sucks (and I just got fired and my wife left me and I want attention)"

"there's a town forum up the street this weekend - a bunch of leaders will be here and they have an open mike"

"I'm mad now, and I have to go bowling Saturday - I don't have time to DISCUSS my concerns with people"



culture of instant gratification in progress....

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Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[georgerussia 0]

"The only people getting upset are the hyper-sensitive, over-politically correct, pro-amnesty, illegal alien-supporting nuts," said Gheen. "You can't attack people's freedom in this country."

Nuff said.

* Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. *

[Heatmiser 0]

Larry Flint was an illegal alien?

What you say is reflective of your knowledge...HOW ya say it is reflective of your experience. Airtwardo

Someone's going to be spanked! Hopefully, it will be me. Skymama

[Andy9o8 0]

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"The only people getting upset are the hyper-sensitive, over-politically correct, pro-amnesty, illegal alien-supporting nuts," said Gheen. "You can't attack people's freedom in this country."

That's only the case for some people. I think other people are offended (or insulted) because they feel (rightly or wrongly) that the costume has an implied (or maybe obvious) undercurrent of ethnic bigotry.

[rehmwa 2]

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"The only people getting upset are the hyper-sensitive, over-politically correct, pro-amnesty, illegal alien-supporting nuts," said Gheen. "You can't attack people's freedom in this country."

That's only the case for some people. I think other people are offended (or insulted) because they feel (rightly or wrongly) that the costume has an implied (or maybe obvious) undercurrent of ethnic bigotry.

well, for Gheen, you probably just defined who fits in his description:

"hyper-sensitive, over-politically correct, pro-amnesty, illegal alien-supporting nuts"
equals
"people who are offended (or insulted) because they feel that the costume has an implied undercurrent of ethnic bigotry"


rightly or wrongly - he might have a point there in that if one personally CHOOSES to be offended by a halloween costume, then they might just be hyper-sensitive

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Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[Andy9o8 0]

My point being more that it's not uncommon for people to feel insulted when it's their particular ethnic group that's being parodied. Because, you know, "that's different". That's really separate from political correctness; it's age-old human nature.

[rehmwa 2]

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My point being more that it's not uncommon for people to feel insulted when it's their particular ethnic group that's being parodied. Because, you know, "that's different". That's really separate from political correctness; it's age-old human nature.

I agree with you that's it's a sensitivity issue for those that are sensitive....



perhaps if we had a priest dress up like an illegal alien disguised as a space alien wearing a tux.....

would we insult 4 classes of people? or would the insult spread enough that everyone would be ok with it?

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Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[lost_n_confuzd 0]

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I'm stating my opinion - that using free speech arguments to support issues like this dilutes the true spirit of the context.

A few posts back it was stated that wearing an illegal alien halloween costume was NOT protected under freedom of speech. A similar issue has been in court before with a win in favor of the costume wearers.

Don't take my word for it, google up Iota Xi Chapter of Sigma Chi Fraternity v. George Mason University, 993 F.2d 386.

While wearing KKK, illegal alien, gang banger and hitler constumes may be in bad taste and even take a poke at other people; wearing the offensive constumes are still protected under freedom of speech.

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there's nothing to do with speech here.
freedom to dress maybe

As said earlier, freedom of speech is not limited to verbal words. It applies to dress, music, expression, cinema films, theatrical plays, and many more.

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Flag burning and dress codes are intellectually weak applications of the concept and typically are just reflections by people that don't really know what they are trying to "state" other than they are upset about something they don't understand.

The Supreme Court would disagree with you. Flag burning, as said by the Supreme Court, is symbolic speech that is protected under the 1st Amendment. Hardly a weak arguement.

What's to be "upset" about? Relax, bro. This is thread about a silly halloween costume on a Skydiving website.

Noone said anything about dress codes, that only deals with people who have to fall under a dress code, not some joe like me or you that wants to wear a halloween costume. Apples and Oranges.

The 1st Amendment is not a 4th quarter last stand play that can only be "used" in arguements that some deem as appropriate. It protects rights that we use everyday - to include wearing silly halloween costumes that poke at other ethnicities.

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Also - they are used in legal arguments all the time to protect someone that wasn't even trying to make a 'statement' at the time other than they were being drunk and stupid.

You don't have to be making a political statement to be protected under free speech.

Edit: Are you saying that you have to be in the process of making a political statement to pull the freedom of speech card?

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"Hey, I was peeing on the courthouse because of man's inhumanity to man - it's SPEECH" (no, you were drunk and had to take a wiz, and now you want to get out of the fine and jail time).

I agree
But that's not the case here.

[Ron 7]

I was watching a comedian once.... He said that almost ALL humor hurts someone.

Blonde jokes, lawyer jokes, skydiver jokes, race jokes.... All of em make fun of some person/party/activity.

We are getting WAY too over sensitive in the world. A joke is most times only a joke.

I don't see any problem with illegal alien jokes anymore than me not having a problem with people dressing up as bounces, or making skydiver jokes.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[rehmwa 2]

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I'm stating my opinion - that using free speech arguments to support issues like this dilutes the true spirit of the context.

Don't take my word for it, google up Iota Xi Chapter of Sigma Chi Fraternity v. George Mason University, 993 F.2d 386.

As said earlier, freedom of speech is not limited to verbal words. It applies to dress, music, expression, cinema films, theatrical plays, and many more.

The Supreme Court would disagree with you.

ad nauseum

what part of "my opinion" do you not understand?

Even though it is under law today (See? I agree with you) - wearing costumes "SHOULD NOT HAVE TO BE" protected under Speech. It should be not be restricted by gov because it's not a big deal.

Playing the speech card is way overused. Playing the speech card on something that doesn't have a message dilutes it when people do have a real message. Playing the speech card on what is simply a tantrum or a gesture of futility is pointless also.

OK? This is an opinion that the courts have taken a lazy position.

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Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[rehmwa 2]

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Flag burning, as said by the Supreme Court, is symbolic speech that is protected under the 1st Amendment. Hardly a weak arguement.

You just wrote that flag burning is symbolic speech because SC says it's symbolic speech

actually, that is a pretty weak arguement (sic)

end, and my point wasn't that it's not protected (obviously) - my point is that flag burning (wearing costumes, shouting down others, throwing piss bombs) is a petulant act with zero value added relative to other more productive applications of speech. So yeah, let's protect it for the weak minded and those with no follow through that need to make an impotent gesture and then pat themselves on the back before they go home, but if they want to use speech to make real change --- they can use their rights in a much better fashion.

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Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[Andy9o8 0]

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You don't have to be making a political statement to be protected under free speech.

True, but at the very minimum, the activity must be deemed to constitute some manner of "expression". And as I said up-thread, just because a particular activity CAN SOMETIMES be protected under free speech, that does not necessarily mean that it IS ALWAYS protected. Context is crucial. Not all conduct/activity, or even clothes wearing, is necessarily expression. If, contrary to an office dress code, I wear sneakers to work solely because they're comfy, but not to make a statement or address a medical issue, that's probably not "expression", so it probably is not protected under the First Amendment.

Now let's take the flag burning example. Arguably, flag burning to make a statement is protected. But if I'm in a park where no open fires are permitted, and I light a campfire with a flag, not to make a statement, but simply because the flag was an available kindling, that is not protected.

Of course, sometimes laws or legal principles conflict with one another; and in that instance, it's often up to the courts to reconcile the conflict. Suppose I burn a flag, in a park where no open fires are permitted, solely in order to make a political statement. I'm given a citation for "unlawful open fire." In court, I defend based on "freedom of speech." So which trumps which - the "no open fires" law, or the freedom of speech? The answer is: there is no one single correct answer - it depends very much on the specific facts of each individual case, on a case-by-case basis. And on a practical level, it will also depend upon which judge or jury will be deciding the case.

[rehmwa 2]

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Suppose I burn a flag, in a park where no open fires are permitted, solely in order to make a political statement. I'm given a citation for "unlawful open fire." In court, I defend based on "freedom of speech."

You are really posting well (and fun) this week

Let me take your example -

what if the park doesn't allow fires, so Joe activist thinks that is nonsense as controlled campfires would be great in the park

so Joe "protests" the no fire policy by burning a park flag in the park - Joe hugs himself gleefully because he also has other political issues - he claims bias and free speech to get on national news - he makes a big stink, wastes a lot of news time - everybody thinks he's a crackpot and ignores him..... or

1 - Joe could go to public reviews and bring up his point to local lawmakers and others at the forum.

2 - Joe could make speeches in public about why the policy is nonsense and then start a petition to change the law

3 - Joe could run for office and win and change the policy directly.

4 - Joe could have just gone to the park and started a regular campfire and got arrested and then would fight the policy using that very topically focused attention.

but that's not how our petulant populace does things now - a dress code issue has to be national news - some idiot with a weather balloon has to national news - all the little nits are out of control and tied to basic 'rights' that are so diluted that we can't see the value so clearly any more.

mmmm, 'rant - now with more sprinkles'

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Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[billvon 2,380]

>We are getting WAY too over sensitive in the world.

I don't think anything's changing. Everyone has their hot buttons. If you wore a "9/11 victim" costume for Halloween 2001, you would have gotten a lot of negative comments. Same thing for a lynching victim in Georgia in the 30's, or a "dead sailor" outfit after Pearl Harbor.

Some people use such angles simply because they like offending people; some are overly sensitive and overthink costumes so they don't offend anyone. Most people are between those two extremes.

[lost_n_confuzd 0]

We are both on the same page; there's nothing wrong with wearing the costume.

[mindfree2yall 0]

BANNED THIS GARBAGE
AND LET ME TELL YOU WHY ''''
DEAR FRIENDS HERE IS THE THING
[[IM ALL AGAINST ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION ]]]
AND IM ALL AGAINST PAYING FOR CRIMINALS WITH PRIOR CONVICTIONS '' INN PRISON THAT ARE ILLEGAL INN THE STATES '''']]]]]]GET RID OF THEM ]]]]]]]
BUT ...........
I MUST TELL YOU
THIS IS country MADE OF IMMIGRANTS IN CASE YOU HAVEN'T NOTICE
[[[OUR DIFFERENCES IS OUR STRENGTH LOOK CLOSE ]]]]]]]
PLEASE LOOK AT THE HISTORY OF OUR IDENTITY AS COUNTRY ''''

WHO ASK CHRISTOPHER COLUMBUS FOR GREEN CARD ???
WHEN HE CAME TO AMERICA ''''
IS HE A WET BACK AS WELL ????? ''''


WELL MAKE AN ILLEGAL ALIEN COSTUME FOR HIM AS WELL ''''
OR YOUR JUST as IGNORANT HYPOCRITICAL & DUMB AS THE MAKERS OF THIS COSTUME '''
WHOS THE OBLIVIOUS AND DELUSIONAL HERE ????


DEAR COMMUNITY
FIRST OF ALL
AFRICAN NATIONALS ''RUSSIANS POLISH EUROPEANS SOUTH AMERICANS AND CHINESE ARE HERE ILLEGALLY AS WELL ''''''INN CASE YOU HAVEN'T NOTICE
[[[UNDER THE RADAR BUT THEY ARE HERE ]]]]
WHAT I THINK IS WRONG IS THE STEREO TYPING [[IF YOUR GONNA MAKE A COSTUME LIKE THAT '''' MAKE IT FOR THOSE NATIONALITIES
AS WELL ''''''' OR YOUR THE VICTIM INN COMPLETE IGNORANCE WITH A LIFE ON YOUR KNEES ''''EMBRACING & WORSHIPING DUMB SHIT PROPAGANDA
THAT ALL IT DOES IS SPLIT STRONG COMMUNITIES APART ''''''''
THATS RIGHT BY
YOU BEING THE VICTIM OF YOUR OWN FALSE SENSE OF PERCEPTION '''[[[WE STOP GROWING AS A COMMUNITY ]]]]]

LET ME EXPLAIN ''''''WHY
THESE ARE TIMES OF CRISIS and all this HATTING ON NORTH AMERICANS
ITS GETTING OLD THAT MIND SET OR MENTAL MAKE UP '' IS LIL OUT DATED 4 THE REAL WORLD NOW DAYS ''''CUSSE OUT HERE
NOW DAYS THE WORLD IS CHANGING '''' YOU NEED AN UP GRADE
AND
LET ME TELL YOU WHY ''''
ALLOT OF THOSE MEXICAN PEOPLE WORK TWICE AS HARD FOR THE SAME WAGE AND THEY DON'T COMPLAINT I MUCH RATHER HAVE THEM WORKING HERE FOR ME THAN THE TALIBAN THESE NORTH AMERICANS ARE CHRISTIANS THEY ARE GODS PEOPLE ''''THEY HELP THE CHURCH ''AND THEY DONT HAVE WEIRD BELIEVES INN RELIGION OR WEIRD IDEOLOGIES ABUSING OF RELIGION & FREEDOM SPEECH TO SPREAD TERROR ACROSS THE LAND '''
WHAT HAPPENS INN MEXICO IS IMPORTANT TO US IT IS OUR PROBLEM TOO '''THESE ARE OUR NEIGHBORS
[[[[ WE ARE ATTACHED TO THEM ''''']]]]]]
THIS COSTUME ALL IT DOES IS it MAKES FUN OF NORTH AMERICAS HISTORY 4 THE SIMPLE FACT
'''''MEXICANS ARE NORTH AMERICANS AND YOUR NEIGHBOR
LOOK AT THE MAP ''''PLEASE FIND OUT WHERE NORTH AMERICA BEGINS GO LOOK
IF YOU KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT GEOGRAPHY '''''
AND AMERICAN HISTORY

THESE MEXICANS ARE MORE PRODUCTIVE AND RELIABLE THAN MANY OF US ON ALLOT OF FIELDS ''''
DONT BE NAIVE AND FOR THE RECORD
I KNOW MEXICAN NATIONALS THAT ARE NOW CITIZENS SOLDIERS THAT ARE BACK HOME FROM IRAK AND AFGHANISTAN
THE MILITARY KNEW THEY WERE ILLEGALS ''''BUT THEY NEED IT PEOPLE SO THEY LOOK THE OTHER WAY KNOWING THEY WERE ILLEGALS ''''[[[[ONES THEY WERE OVER THERE ]]]]]
AND NOW ARE BACK FROM HELL GOT MEDALS AND ARE COPS AND FIRE FIGHTERS
THESE ARE HEROES WE ARE TALKING ABOUT THAT are not asking for your validation '''''OR LOVE
THAT HAVE SAVE AMERICAN LIFE ON THE BATTLE FIELD AND OUT HERE INN THE HOME LAND AS PUBLIC SAFETY OFFICIALS ''''
WHOS THE VICTIM HERE ?????
WHY DON'T YOU ALL MAKE FUN OF THEM..... TOO
SOME OF THE PEOPLE THAT WRITE THIS IDIOTIC TOPICS HERE ARE NATIONAL EMBARRASSMENT '''''''
YOUR AMERICANISM IS WEAK ''''''
AND LOOK
FINE ;;;;
HAVE IT YOUR WAY '''''' IF YOUR SET INN YOUR WAYS N YOU LIKE TO BREATHE IGNORANCE INSTEAD OF CLEAN FRESH AIR '''''''ENJOY
IF WE WANT TO BE UNGRATEFUL FINE HAVE AT IT '''DON'T SEE IT''''''[[[[[[ BE BLIND ]]]]]]

JUST DONT GO AROUND BEING A TOTAL IGNORANT BY GOING AROUND THAT'''''' BEING TOTAL FACT ''']]]]]]]]
CUSSE YOU '''''PPL OVER LOOKING THAT [[[ FACT '''''' MAKES YOU SICKER THAN YOU ARE ]]]]]]]'''''''GET WELL SOON ''''''
AS BUSINESS OWNER I CAN TELL YOU
[[[ALLOT OF THOSE MEXICANS THEY DON'T DRAGG THEIR FEET ON THE JOB SITE THEY ARE HERE TO WORK AND MAKE ME MONEY BY PULLING THEIR OWN WEIGHT SO THEY CAN PAY THEIR WAY AND EARN THAT POSITION ''ALLOT OF THEM ARE HERE TO WORK THE LAND AND THEY ARE NOT HERE FOR FREEBIES ]]]]]]
[[[THEY DON'T EXPECT LIFE TO BE EASY ]]]
LOOK CLOSE ''''''
I FEEL I HAVE THE MORAL OBLIGATION TO TELL YOU THIS
SO YOU DON'T COME ACROSS LIKE ''
YOUR SICK INN THE HEAD ''''CUSSE IF YOUR UNGRATEFUL YOUR BLIND '''''[[[[[[YOUR NOT HARMING ME ]]]]]]
RECTIFIED DON'T BE NAIVE '''''''''
CUSSE
YOUR TAKING AWAY FROM YOUR OWN COMMUNITY BY TREATING YOUR NEIGHBORS LIKE GARBAGE

IM MARRIED TO MEXICAN NATIONAL AND WHEN I GO DOWN THERE 'HER FAMILY
THEY TREAT-ME BETTER THAN MY OWN FAMILY
HERE '''''INN THE STATES AND THEY HAVE LESS MONEY
THEY
CATER-ME TO DEATH AND THEY DON'T KNOW WHAT TO GIVE ME OR COOK FOR ME SO I FEEL AT HOME EVERY TIME IM DOWN THERE
FORGET THE TOURIST TRAPS '''THEY TREAT ME LIKE IM LOCAL AND IM THE ONLY WHITE GUY
I HAVE FAMILY DOWN THERE
ANY WAYS

LETS NOT TAKE AWAY FROM THE GOOD PEOPLE ''''''''''
CUSSE [[[WE NEED THEM HERE ]]]]]]]]

I GUESS IM THE MONSTER FOR TELLING YOU THIS RIGHT ???
SON
JUST DON'T BE WONDERING WHY YOU DON'T LIVE ON THE MOST EXPENSIVE CITY INN THE STATES AND 10TH BEST NEIGHBORHOOD INN THE COUNTRY OR
OWN YOUR OWN
BUSINESS ''''
SERIOUSLY YOU GUYS DON'T WANT THE BRAIN OF AN INSECT BY MAKING THESE TOPICS CUSSE THESE TYPES OF COMMENTS
THATS ALL THEY DO FOR YOU '''' THEY TAKE AWAY FROM YOUR SPIRITUAL INTELLIGENCE '''''''AND SOUL POWER '''
MY ADVISE TO YOU IS LEARN OTHER LANGUAGES LIKE ESPANOL AND FRENCH''''' ITALIAN WILL BE EASY ONES YOU KNOW THOSE 2 LEARN 3 LANGUAGES AT LEAST ''' MAYBE THEN YOU EXPAND THAT THOUGHT PROCESS OF YOURS A LIL
[[[DONT ISOLATE YOUR SELF FROM THE OUT SIDE WORLD ]]]]]]]
GET WELL SOON KID CUSSE THAT MIND SET IS OUT DATED ''AND IS MAKING YOU SICKER THAN YOU ARE


P.D
SORRY FOR THE MISSPELLING I HAVE TO MAKE THIS QUICK I DON'T HAVE TIME AND I DO THAT ALLOT WHEN I TYPE FAST '''''
IM AT WORK
I GOT TO GET BACK YO MY DAY AND THANK YOU
FOR YOUR CONSIDERATION AND PATIENCE
IT DOES GO ALONG WAYS ''''''

LET THERE BE LIGHT
VAYAN CON DIOS AMIGOS

[masterrig 1]

As ridiculous as the 'concern' over the previously mentioned costume is, NOW, we have a 'Balloon Boy' costume! A Canadian company is making available, a 'Balloon Boy' costume... complete with inflatable balloon just like 'Balloon Boy's' and a cardboard box. The box is for either written questions or treats. Let's see how long it takes for someone to get riled-up over this one. Hee, hee...


Chuck

[pirana 0]

The only thing offensive is the statement that the illegal alien community is small. BS. At a minimum of 10 million and growing it is far from small.

" . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

[BillyVance 34]

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As ridiculous as the 'concern' over the previously mentioned costume is, NOW, we have a 'Balloon Boy' costume! A Canadian company is making available, a 'Balloon Boy' costume... complete with inflatable balloon just like 'Balloon Boy's' and a cardboard box. The box is for either written questions or treats. Let's see how long it takes for someone to get riled-up over this one. Hee, hee...


Chuck

They should not forget to add a quote on the box: "who the hell is Wolf?"

"Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban

[masterrig 1]

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As ridiculous as the 'concern' over the previously mentioned costume is, NOW, we have a 'Balloon Boy' costume! A Canadian company is making available, a 'Balloon Boy' costume... complete with inflatable balloon just like 'Balloon Boy's' and a cardboard box. The box is for either written questions or treats. Let's see how long it takes for someone to get riled-up over this one. Hee, hee...


Chuck

They should not forget to add a quote on the box: "who the hell is Wolf?"

Chuck

[mindfree2yall 0]

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Quote

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As ridiculous as the 'concern' over the previously mentioned costume is, NOW, we have a 'Balloon Boy' costume! A Canadian company is making available, a 'Balloon Boy' costume... complete with inflatable balloon just like 'Balloon Boy's' and a cardboard box. The box is for either written questions or treats. Let's see how long it takes for someone to get riled-up over this one. Hee, hee...


Chuck

They should not forget to add a quote on the box: "who the hell is Wolf?"

Chuck

get well soon