warpedskydiver 0 #1 October 5, 2009 Pretty cool since I did not even contact them. I guess they and Stan the Author do their homework. *disclaimer I do know Stan Christ but no favoritism nor any other unethical circumstance occurred. He just likes my work and I like his work. Mutual respect goes a long way. I bet this is how Marty felt way back when... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cliffwhite 0 #2 October 5, 2009 QuotePretty cool since I did not even contact them. I guess they and Stan the Author do their homework. *disclaimer I do know Stan Christ but no favoritism nor any other unethical circumstance occurred. He just likes my work and I like his work. Mutual respect goes a long way. I bet this is how Marty felt way back when... That is really cool Warpedskydiver. Something I made was once in Sewer Workers'Weekly. I was every bit as proud. Blues, Cliff2muchTruth Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,121 #3 October 5, 2009 Congrats! But what is it? We need a picture, or at least a reference Wendy P.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rookie120 0 #4 October 6, 2009 Got a link to what it is that you made? I would like to see it.If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Brains 2 #5 October 6, 2009 I would guess it is his muzzle brake? Never look down on someone, unless they are going down on you. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kbordson 8 #6 October 6, 2009 Congratulations!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Darius11 12 #7 October 6, 2009 Thats great man I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
warpedskydiver 0 #8 October 20, 2009 Yes I got banned before I could reply. It is my Muzzle Brakes. It should be in next months Tactical Weapons Magazine The article is the 6.8spc vs. 6.5Grendel controversy A very good article by Stan Christ, a very well known writer. The WCI part is quite prominent as it has it's own inset block. I received a letter from a commanding officer in NSW that recommends deployment of the WCI Brake to platoons and company sized units for fielding in order to achieve greater accuracy and effectiveness per rounds fired in order to maintain fire superiority. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
warpedskydiver 0 #9 October 20, 2009 QuoteCongrats! But what is it? We need a picture, or at least a reference Wendy P. http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o42/warped60120/P3200035.jpg http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o42/warped60120/WCIBrake.jpg Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
warpedskydiver 0 #10 October 20, 2009 A couple of DZ.commers own them and really seem to appreciate them as well. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #11 October 20, 2009 So, you're all Tacti-Cool® and stuff, now? Congrats, bro! Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
warpedskydiver 0 #12 October 20, 2009 78 SPECIAL WEAPONS/DECEMBER 2009 SPECIAL WEAPONS/DECEMBER 2009 79 Combat PROVEN 6.5 GRENDEL VERSUS 6.8 SPC Which one is in the runnning to replace the 5.56mm NATO ? Ever since Alexander Arms’ 6.5mm Grendel and Remington’s 6.8mm Special Purpose Cartridge (SPC) were introduced during 2004, there isongoing debate between some members of the shooting community as to which round would be the better choice to succeed 5.56mm NATO for military use. This article will attempt to provide an objective evaluation as to whether the del or 6.8 SPC is the superior alternative by comparing the characteristics of each round and the measures necessary to utilize these cartridges inthe M4 carbine, M16 squad marksman rifle, and M249 light machine gun. The genesis of the two rounds could hardly have been more different. The 6.5 Grendel was conceived as a sporting cartridge and it was designed to give the civilian AR-15 owner the capability for precision shooting at long range. Load development centered on competition and hunting rounds, which remain the only types of factory ammunition currently marketed. However, the performance potential of 6.5 Grendel caused some enthusiasts to advocate it for use by the military and factory loadings that would be legal for combat use are slowly becoming available. The birth of the 6.8 SPC was just the opposite, having been created as a combat cartridge for special operations, anddeveloped specifically to provide the military M4 shooter enhanced terminal effects on enemy personnel at typical engagement distances. Becauseof this a significant percentage of 6.8 SPC development efforts by commercial firms has been devoted to loadings that would be lawful for land warfare, some of which have full metal jacket, armor piercing and hollowpoint match bullets. Carbine In 2006 the US Army decided to “pure fleet” deploying Brigade Combat Teams with the M4A1 carbine in “next to deploy” order as they prepared for assignments in Iraq and Afghanistan, and even in the Marine Corps, the carbine is increasingly replacing the longer and heavier M16A2 rifle in a number of roles. Special operations personnel have been using M4 variants since the weapon was adopted in the early 1990s. It was probably Delta Force operators who first reported that 5.56mm M855 ball ammunition fired from the M4 carbine failed to reliably incapacitate enemy combatants in the intense shootouts that took place in Somalia during 1993. When similar failures were experienced a decade later during anti-terrorist and counter-insurgency operations in Afghanistan and Iraq, an expedient remedy that special operations troops turned to was employment of the Mk262 round that Black Hills Ammunition had been manufacturing for use in service rifle matches. In contrast to M855 Ball, which has a full metal jacket projectile such as has historically been general issue to military forces, the Mk262 cartridge has a hollowpoint match bullet. As chance would have it, the wound trauma created by the Mk262’s 77-grain Sierra MatchKing produces more consistent terminal effectiveness than that of the M855’s FMJ bullet, especially when fired from short-barreled weapons. Squad Marksman Rifle The Mk12 special purpose rifle was created to give Army and Navy special operations units a 5.56mm weapon capable of significantly greater precision than either the M4 or the M16. Essentially, the Mk12 is a “light sniper rifle” and, like the standard sniper weapons currently employed by the Armed Forces, it achieves its superior accuracy by firing match grade ammunition. Instead of M855 Ball, the Mk12 SPR is intended to use the superb Black Hills Mk262 competition load that is favored by special operations forces for their M4 carbines. When conventional units also wanted infantry squads to have a similar capability as that provided by the Mk12 SPR, the result was the Army squad designated marksman rifle and the Marine squad advanced marksman rifle. The squad marksman has the mission of delivering precise, direct fire support for the rifle squad out to slightly beyond the normal maximum effective range that the typical rifleman is capable. These special purpose rifles differ from the standard M16 in that they are semi-automatic only, and highly modified to achieve match grade accuracy. There is currently one 6.5 Grendel load that is compliant with JAG rulings regarding land warfare requirements for small arms projectiles. That is the 123-grain MatchKing load, which Black Hills Ammunition makes exclusively for Les Baer Custom. However in 2008, Wolf Performance Ammunition announced that a FMJ loading would be added to their Polyformance line. This steel-cased 110-grain FMJ round is expected to be on the market sometime in 2009, but as of this writing there is no firm date of availability. For the 6.8 SPC, most available factory loads feature a 115-grain bullet. For instance, Remington Arms and Silver State Armory both offer the 6.8 with a 115-grain Sierra MatchKing. The contenders. Which round would be the better choice to succeed 5.56 NATO? The 6.5 Grendel (left), or the 6.8 SPC (right)? The streamlined 6.5mm MatchKing (left) produces a flat trajectory and reduced wind drift. The 6.8mm MatchKing (right) inflicts optimal terminal effects in tissue simulant. The 6.5mm Grendel cartridge would greatly enhance the squad advanced marksman rifle by extending its “reach” to 800 meters, or more Remington has been marketing a FMJ load of the same weight. However, Hornady also loads the 6.8 with a 110- grain boat-tail hollow point and Silver State Armory, which has been uniquely aggressive in the development of 6.8 SPC ammunition, and even markets a 97-grain armor-piercing round. Advantage: The 6.8 SPC currently has a clear lead over the 6.5 Grendel,both in the number of companies making ammunition suitable for military combat, and in the variety of loadings available. Exterior Ballistics. Bullets for the 6.8 SPC are relatively short and fat compared to the long and slender projectiles used in the 6.5 Grendel. According to Sierra data, the 6.8mm 115-grain MatchKing has a ballistic coefficient (BC) of 0.324, which is considerably lower than the 0.510 BC of the 6.5mm 123-grain MatchKing. At the under 300 meters engagement distances for which the carbine is typically used, nthis difference won’t have a significant effect. However, at the longer ranges for which the squad marksman rifle would be employed, the more streamlined 6.5mm projectile produces a much flatter trajectory and smaller wind drift. Advantage: The 6.5 Grendel is obviously superior in this category, due to the ability to use bullets of greater ballistic efficiency than is possible for 6.8 SPC. Terminal Performance. Statistics compiled by the US Army show that 99 percent of infantry engagements occur at less than 500 meters, and that holds true even in the wide expanses of desert warfare. In the urban combat encountered in Iraq, normal engagement distances are considerably shorter, and rapid incapacitation of the enemy is a higher priority than long-range accuracy. The most widely accepted method of testing this capability is by shooting the projectile into ballistic gelatin, and examining the resulting wound profile. Such gelatin testing of 6.5 Grendel ammunition has been very limited to date, and only one photograph of a 123-grain MatchKing test was available for this article. Fired at a velocity of 2470 feet persecond (fps) from a distance of 50 yards, the bullet penetrated about 2 inches into the gelatin before yawing and completely fragmenting. Maximum depth of penetration was 16 inches, achieved by a small fragment of the core. A photograph of terminal ballistics testing done with the 6.8 SPC loaded with a 115-grain MatchKing was also acquired for examination. Muzzle velocity was 2475 fps, and the gelatin block placed 100 meters downrange. The wound cavity appears to be similar in size to that of the 6.5 Grendel, but differs in that onset of yaw occurred just a fraction over 1-inch after penetrating the block. There was some fragmentation, but a substantial portion of the bullet remained intact and penetrated 16.5 inches. However, although Sierra MatchKing bullets are employed by snipers and special forces, they are unlikely to ever be used in general purpose ammunition. For one thing, they are unsuited to firing in machine guns, which traditionally have used FMJ bullets. 6.5 GRENDEL VERSUS 6.8 SPC WCI MUZZLE BRAKE Both 6.5 Grendel and 6.8 SPC unquestionably deliver substantial improvement in terminal performance over 5.56 NATO, but there is a penalty of increased recoil that necessarily results from firing a bullet almost twice as heavy. In 2008, Warped Consulting Inc sought a remedy to that drawback of the more powerful, intermediate calibers, and developed a muzzle brake which reduces felt recoil and muzzle climb. Also, the brake incorporates an 11-degree target crown that is claimed to enhance first-shot accuracy. The WCI brake was designed for combat, not competition, so ruggedness was a priority. In line with that philosophy, installation and removal is simple, requiring no special tools; a section of cleaning rod inserted the holes can serve as a handle to provide extra torque should that be needed. No lock washer is utilized, nor are adhesives such as Loc-Tite. All that’s necessary is a drop or two of oil on the threads, which are machined so that the brake alignment is self-timed and shoulders upon the crown of the barrel. Does the WCI brake really perform as advertised? Perhaps the best testimony in that regard comes from a special operations warrior who, while serving in Iraq, fitted a WCI brake to his 5.56mm M4A1 carbine. “Wow! That thing is awesome! The reduced recoil is unreal! My shot group is tighter than ever, bro! I cannot believe the difference between your product and the stock flash suppressor.” For info contact: Warped Consulting Inc, Dept SW/MP, Elgin IL 60120 The WCI muzzle brake was tested in the “sand box” and earned high praise for improving controllability of the M4A1 carbine in full-auto and rapid semi-auto fire. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #13 October 20, 2009 You KNOW we're going to buy them and post reviews saying stuff like "I knew him back when he was just a guy getting banned every other week on a skydiving forum", right? Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 0 #14 October 20, 2009 QuoteQuoteCongrats! But what is it? We need a picture, or at least a reference http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o42/warped60120/P3200035.jpg http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o42/warped60120/WCIBrake.jpg Just a thought: Does that device have any noise-reduction effect? If it does, you might want to conduct some before-and-after decibel tests to make sure it complies with any applicable laws regulating silencers. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
warpedskydiver 0 #15 October 20, 2009 Yes, it has been done. Andy it is loud enough to hurt your hearing. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
warpedskydiver 0 #17 October 20, 2009 The magazine has been already delivered to subscribers so I can post excerpts of the article. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nerdgirl 0 #18 October 20, 2009 Quote 78 SPECIAL WEAPONS/DECEMBER 2009 SPECIAL WEAPONS/DECEMBER 2009 79 combat PROVEN Which one is in the runnning to replace the 5.56mm NATO ? In 2008, Warped Consulting Inc sought a remedy to that drawback of the more powerful, intermediate calibers, and developed a muzzle brake which reduces felt recoil and muzzle climb. Also, the brake incorporates an 11-degree target crown that is claimed to enhance first-shot accuracy. Very nice! Always cool, imo, to be mentioned in print! "Warped Consulting" is your business, yes? /Marg Act as if everything you do matters, while laughing at yourself for thinking anything you do matters. Tibetan Buddhist saying Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
warpedskydiver 0 #19 October 20, 2009 Yes, thanks so much. I have accomplished many things in life, but nothing that was public until now. It actually mentions me by name as well. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rickjump1 0 #20 October 20, 2009 Congrats and good luck.Do your part for global warming: ban beans and hold all popcorn farts. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 18 #21 October 20, 2009 Quote Quote Quote Congrats! But what is it? We need a picture, or at least a reference http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o42/warped60120/P3200035.jpg http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o42/warped60120/WCIBrake.jpg Just a thought: Does that device have any noise-reduction effect? If it does, you might want to conduct some before-and-after decibel tests to make sure it complies with any applicable laws regulating silencers. They do NOT make the weapon produce less report. But, it does keep the barrel very steady and on target and they are cool looking too"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vortexring 0 #22 October 20, 2009 Sounds like good news mate. No doubt you'll have a pint or two at the weekend to celebrate - good for you. And there's all your neighbours thinking you spent all that time in the garden shed wanking! 'for it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "chuck 'im out, the brute!" But it's "saviour of 'is country" when the guns begin to shoot.' Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
steve1 5 #23 October 20, 2009 I'm impressed. Does this also help eliminate muzzle flash?.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 18 #24 October 20, 2009 QuoteI'm impressed. Does this also help eliminate muzzle flash?.... Yes, I have fired several rounds at night just to see for myself. No flash to speak of. I was using a 20 inch barrel however and that is very different than something shorter"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
warpedskydiver 0 #25 October 21, 2009 Who says I wasn't? I was looking at pictures of chicks with guns! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
