Hey christians, riddle me this?

[Butters 0]

If we're going to base our beliefs on fictional books I'm going to choose Green Eggs and Ham. Sam will be God and green eggs and ham will be salvation. I'll understand completely why you would fail to taste the dish. The ball is now on your side of the net ...

"That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch

[turtlespeed 212]

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If we're going to base our beliefs on fictional books I'm going to choose Green Eggs and Ham. Sam will be God and green eggs and ham will be salvation. I'll understand completely why you would fail to taste the dish. The ball is now on your side of the net ...

Your analogy is preinteresting, as I have ALSO tasted Green eggs and Ham.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[RonD1120 58]

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If we're going to base our beliefs on fictional books I'm going to choose Green Eggs and Ham. Sam will be God and green eggs and ham will be salvation. I'll understand completely why you would fail to taste the dish. The ball is now on your side of the net ...

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Is the Bible the Inspired Word of God? 

Written by: Ron Carlson 

During a question and answer session at a recent speaking engagement, a university student asked me, "Why do you believe that the Bible is the inspired word of God?"  Now this is a very interesting question and probably one of the most important questions any Christian could ask themselves.  What is so special, so unique about the Bible that Christians believe it is literally the inspired word of God? 

In answering this student's question, I encouraged him to consider the following facts about the Bible: 

First, the Bible is not just one single book.  This is a more common misconception than many people realize, especially with people who do not come from a Judeo-Christian background.  Rather than being a single book, the Bible is actually a collection of 66 books, which is called the canon of scriptures.  These 66 books contain a variety of genres: history, poetry, prophecy, wisdom literature, letters, and apocalyptic just to name a few. 

Second, these 66 books were written by 40 different authors.  These authors came from a variety of backgrounds: shepherds, fishermen, doctors, kings, prophets, and others.  And most of these authors never knew one another personally. 

Third, these 66 books were written over a period of 1500 years.  Yet again, this is another reminder that many of these authors never knew or collaborated with one another in writing these books. 

Fourth, the 66 books of the Bible were written in 3 different languages.  In the Bible we have books that were written in the ancient languages of Hebrew, Greek, and Aramaic; a reflection of the historical and cultural circumstances in which each of these books were written. 

And finally, these 66 books were written on 3 different continents: Africa, Asia, and Europe.  Once again, this is a testament to the varied historical and cultural circumstances of God's people. 

Think about the above realities: 66 books, written by 40 different authors, over 1500 years, in 3 different languages, on 3 different continents.  What's more, this collection of books shares a common storyline- the creation, fall, and redemption of God's people; a common theme- God's universal love for all of humanity; and a common message- salvation is available to all who repent of their sins and commit to following God with all of their heart, soul, mind and strength. In addition to sharing these commonalities, these 66 books contain no historical errors or contradictions.  God's word truly is an amazing collection of writings! 

After I had shared the above facts with this student, I offered him the following challenge: I said to him,"If you do not believe that the Bible is the inspired word of God, if you do not believe that the Bible is of a supernatural origin, then I challenge you to a test."  I said to the student, "I challenge you to go to any library in the world, you can choose any library you like, and find 66 books which match the characteristics of the 66 books in the Bible.  You must choose 66 books, written by 40 different authors, over 1500 years, in 3 different languages, written on 3 different continents.  However, they must share a common storyline, a common theme, and a common message, with no historical errors or contradictions. If you can produce such a collection of books, I will admit that the Bible is not the inspired word of God."  

The student's reply was almost instantaneous, he emphatically stated, "But that's impossible!" 

"But that is impossible!"  It truly is impossible, for any collection of human writings..  However, the Bible passes this test.  The Bible contains 66 books, written by 40 different authors, over 1500 years, in 3 different languages, on 3 different continents, with no historical errors or contradictions.  The entire Bible, from Genesis to Revelation, bears the mark of Divine inspiration. 

Don't miss the first bounce.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[dropoutdave 0]

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with no historical errors or contradictions

Just shot yourself in the foot with that one!

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May Contain Nut traces......

[billvon 2,380]

>no historical errors or contradictions.

In Genesis 1, cattle come first. In Genesis 2, people come first. Can't have it both ways.

[RonD1120 58]

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with no historical errors or contradictions

Just shot yourself in the foot with that one!

Negative. See Rstanley0312, proper exegesis of Scripture.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[RonD1120 58]

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>no historical errors or contradictions.

In Genesis 1, cattle come first. In Genesis 2, people come first. Can't have it both ways.

Same as above, see Rstanley0312, proper exegesis of Scripture.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[billvon 2,380]

>Same as above, see Rstanley0312, proper exegesis of Scripture.

Exegesis is great, but is also a tacit admission that the Bible is not LITERALLY correct. You have to understand the environment in which it was written, which was during the early days of Christianity when there were a whole lot of pagans to convert and a new religion to establish. In that context it makes perfect sense; it is very similar to pagan creation stories. A firmament arising from the waters (Genesis 1)? Egyptian. A barren earth with no water upon it (Genesis 2)? Islam. The flood (Genesis 7)? Sumerian. Using parts of other creation myths allowed Christianity to seem a bit more familiar to converts from other religions.

So in the context of exegesis, the books of the Bible do indeed make sense. But they are also understood as something other than a literal description of events.

[georgerussia 0]

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I doubt you get to Armenia, much. Most people don't. People in Armenia firmly believe that Noah's Ark landed on Mount Ararat, and that they are Noah's descendants.

Were you in Armenia? Where/when, and how long? People do not necessary have the same beliefs in Yerevan and, for example, Megri.

Generally nobody I met in Armenia or know here believes in such thing. It's a myth and a source of good jokes, not really different from "Armenian Radio".

BTW, do you know which country the Mount Ararat is located in?

* Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. *

[billvon 2,380]

>Therefore, the original post was spurious and nonsensical.

I see the original post as asking whether people find the Bible literally correct, or more of an allegory for what was going on at the time. Too many people treat the Bible as an infallible history book, which is just as stupid as using a calculus textbook as the basis of your morality.

[billvon 2,380]

>Bill, just curious, did you get your style of quoting replies from back in
>the BBS days?

I guess. Never really thought about it.

[RonD1120 58]

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>Therefore, the original post was spurious and nonsensical.

I see the original post as asking whether people find the Bible literally correct, or more of an allegory for what was going on at the time. Too many people treat the Bible as an infallible history book, which is just as stupid as using a calculus textbook as the basis of your morality.

I certainly did not see the OP in that light. To me it is just another sophomoric quizzing from the macrocosm of collective adolescence.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[Andy9o8 0]

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>Therefore, the original post was spurious and nonsensical.

I see the original post as asking whether people find the Bible literally correct, or more of an allegory for what was going on at the time. Too many people treat the Bible as an infallible history book, which is just as stupid as using a calculus textbook as the basis of your morality.

I certainly did not see the OP in that light. To me it is just another sophomoric quizzing from the macrocosm of collective adolescence.

And as I suggested in my Post #17, I, too, did see the OP that way, albeit styled (along with the thread title) in a way that gets under your skin. You only look as far as the baiting; I think the underlying issue is still reasonable to query.

[rhys 0]

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I see the original post as asking whether people find the Bible literally correct,

and indeed it was,

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or more of an allegory for what was going on at the time.

Well this allegory stuff to me, seems like an excuse for the falseness of the bible and christian belief, compare what we know today, not just with science but with language skills and ask how it was fair to use these 'riddles' as a basis of the origin of all existance.

once again i will ask;

If god is so divine, why could he/she/it not just lay it out in plain old language for all humans to understand easily.

It is hardly fair to the majority of the worlds population that has not had a decent chance to understand christianity except in the form of some sort of weapon being fired at them by some christian.

There is no wonder why mohammed is the most popular name on the planet. I'd be pissed off at christians too if i was in thier shoes, not that islam is any better, but just imagine being in thier shoes.

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Too many people treat the Bible as an infallible history book, which is just as stupid as using a calculus textbook as the basis of your morality.

Amen!

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

[Cineo 0]

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once again i will ask;

If god is so divine, why could he/she/it not just lay it out in plain old language for all humans to understand easily.

It is....the problem is translation...if you read the original Hebrew it puts it out quite plainly. The only problem is there are more than a few Hebrew words that we don't have a English word for. Then we have to arrange it to make it sound right and not jibba jabba. So in conclusion it is written plainly. Just hard to translate into English for more proper interpretation

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[billvon 2,380]

>Well this allegory stuff to me, seems like an excuse for the falseness of
>the bible and christian belief . . .

So you think the lesson of the story "The Boy who Cried Wolf" is false, because it likely didn't happen in exactly that way?

>If god is so divine, why could he/she/it not just lay it out in plain old
>language for all humans to understand easily.

Because God didn't write the Bible; people did.

>not just with science but with language skills and ask how it was fair to
>use these 'riddles' as a basis of the origin of all existance.

Hmm. Parables are a pretty respected (and venerable) way of teaching stuff. Ever answered a question along the lines of "If train A leaves the station at 10:40 and train B leaves the station at 11:00 . . ."? If so, you do the same thing. The question is not meaningless just because a train didn't REALLY leave the station at 11:00.

>It is hardly fair to the majority of the worlds population that has not had
>a decent chance to understand christianity except in the form of some
>sort of weapon being fired at them by some christian.

Or a Jew having rockets fired at them by a Muslim. Religious hatred knows no boundaries (unfortunately.)

[br0k3n 0]

reply]

Those exalted, highly educated, people should be the first to grasp the extent of what is known and what is unknown. Closing the door on spirituality is as ignorant as those who close the door on science. False information can be found in both areas but the core truth of each still remains.

...

[rhys 0]

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It is....the problem is translation...if you read the original Hebrew it puts it out quite plainly.

So it is fair to jews and not to the rest of us?

maybe that is why the can take over peopled homes and kick them out in the street, because god loves them over everyone else?

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The only problem is there are more than a few Hebrew words that we don't have a English word for. Then we have to arrange it to make it sound right and not jibba jabba. So in conclusion it is written plainly. Just hard to translate into English for more proper interpretation

My point is that God created man, so he should have seen this coming a mile away, if he is the divine one, he would have made it fair for all!

Not just the jewish people that wrote the bible, God is answerable to everything.

If he could etch out the 10 commandments he can olso write the meaning of life and hand it out to us, so we can all learn as easily as each other.

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

[br0k3n 0]

Anyway this whole thread is moot as we all know that the ark could never have been build. Well that is my opinion, and mainly based on the following"facts"

1. The Wyoming schooner is currently the largest wooden ship ever built. It was built in the first decade of the twentieth century with modern shipbuilding methods. It was about the same length as the alleged Ark, but only two thirds of the width.

This ship represented a tremendous feat of engineering, and posed several substantial construction problems. Most notably, it required large iron strapping for support, just to hold the boat together. Something that Noah would not have had "iron".

Also it flexed so much that it required constant pumping to keep the water out whilst at sea, and utlimately sunk.

2. The QE2 for example took 1000s of people using a modern shipyard, machines and ship building knowledge 2 years to build, so how long would Noah and his 3 sons have taken to build the ark!!!!

3.Where did they build it, did Noah have a ship yard with a dry dock largest enough. Who built this?

I could go one. I simple find it stagering the people will believe such outrages rubbish.

-----------------------------------------------------------
--+ There are 10 types of people in the world: Those who understand binary, and those who don't.. --+

[RonD1120 58]

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>Same as above, see Rstanley0312, proper exegesis of Scripture.

Exegesis is great, but is also a tacit admission that the Bible is not LITERALLY correct. You have to understand the environment in which it was written, which was during the early days of Christianity when there were a whole lot of pagans to convert and a new religion to establish. In that context it makes perfect sense; it is very similar to pagan creation stories. A firmament arising from the waters (Genesis 1)? Egyptian. A barren earth with no water upon it (Genesis 2)? Islam. The flood (Genesis 7)? Sumerian. Using parts of other creation myths allowed Christianity to seem a bit more familiar to converts from other religions.

So in the context of exegesis, the books of the Bible do indeed make sense. But they are also understood as something other than a literal description of events.

Like I said, query Rstanley0312. He is the OT scholar. I am a Christian counselor and focus primarily on NT application. In my Bibles the OT pages are the clean ones.

About 9 years ago I completed the Bible Study Fellowship course on Genesis. It was a 9 month college level class. No where in the course did we discuss inaccuracy. We studied God's will and plan. If you accurately understand Genesis, you understand the entire Bible.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[rhys 0]

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So you think the lesson of the story "The Boy who Cried Wolf" is false, because it likely didn't happen in exactly that way?

No, that sroty points out a very true concept, and is a good story for children and adults alike, we can learn from that story, but it does not explain how the wolf, the sheep or the shepard came to be, it simply points out the repercussions of making too many false accusations.

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Because God didn't write the Bible; people did.

People are apparently gods star creatures, why did he allow them to do it is such an unfair way.

Surely if such a diving being can come up with DNA, neutron and photons, he can give dogs the primal instincts to lick thier balls clean and birds the primal instincts to keep thier eggs warm.

He reallyu fucked up by 'not' giving humans the primal instinct to know about his existance.

Maybe he was hungover that day? because he must have invented alcohol too right?

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Hmm. Parables are a pretty respected (and venerable) way of teaching stuff. Ever answered a question along the lines of "If train A leaves the station at 10:40 and train B leaves the station at 11:00 . . ."? If so, you do the same thing. The question is not meaningless just because a train didn't REALLY leave the station at 11:00.

A parable is not expected to describe the origin of life.

the train leaving the station is more of a quiz of ones ability to calculate problems. some can do it and some cannot.

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Or a Jew having rockets fired at them by a Muslim. Religious hatred knows no boundaries (unfortunately.)

We could go right back to the crusades and beyond with that debate, but the warfare between religons is a classic example of how wrong both parties must be to believe they are doing the right thing.

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

[billvon 2,380]

>but it does not explain how the wolf, the sheep or the shepard came to be, it
>simply points out the repercussions of making too many false accusations.

So even though the story is completely false, you get something out of it? Cool. Many people do the same thing with the stories of the Bible.

>People are apparently gods star creatures, why did he allow them to do it is
>such an unfair way.

If you really think God "guides people's hands" or whatever, fine. You'll have to ask your God why he "allowed" them to do it in an unfair way.

>A parable is not expected to describe the origin of life.

?? The book "The Ancestor's Tale" is a several hundred page parable describing the origins of life. There are several others like it.

[jclalor 12]

This site is always fun:

http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/

[Granimal 0]

Of course, it is real.

First God created a portal to Noah to every single remote place in the world for the local unique creatures to go through that would prevent any more than one single creature of each sex to pass.

Then all the creatures gathered in an assembly area that was carefully constructed to keep the creatures from eating each other while they were loaded.

Since there are approximately 1.4 million species that are currently named and estimated millions more that are not Noah quickly ran into space problems as the animals (and seeds) flew through the portals.

In an attempt to save space, God made a couple exceptions. First, only one creature was required to be on the ark for all the hermaphroditic organisms.

Next, God gave Noah countless +1000 bags of holding for all the seeds, animals and their food. Of course, these bags of holding came in different sizes for the different animals had the nice effect of keeping the animals from eating each other.

Since even the bags of holding were insufficient to hold all the required food, every morning Noah cast create food and create water spells for all the animals.

Finally, Noah quickly ran into a problem trying to get the hyperthermophiles on the ark due to environmental considerations. Noah’s first challenge was creating hydrothermal vents on the ark to create a temperature of 235°F (113¼C) to sustain the chemosynthesis of the hyperthermophiles without catching anything on fire or poisoning the other creatures. Noah built a special chamber, but since he was only allowed to use Cyprus, he has to cast a resist fire spell on the ark three times a day to prevent anything from burning.

Once all this was accomplished, Noah asked God the following question. If all living things are to perish in a flood, why must I take the aquatic creatures on the ark, cant they just live in the water? God said because I said so and you can’t possibly understand. God added that understood what a big undertaking to create the aquariums on the ark would be for Noah and grabbed Bernie Marcus from the future. Bernie helped Noah by applying all the techniques that were used to build the Georgia Aquarium.

Finally, once the journey was over, God opened back up the portals and all the animals and seeds were transported back to their area of the world. Bernie Marcus was sent back to watch over the Georgia Aquarium and all was well with the world.

[Remster 24]

Don't be so mocking.

D&D is serious stuff to many people.

Remster