riddler 0 #1 July 24, 2009 It may seem to early to count out health reform under the Obama administration, but I think at this point, little or nothing is going to get done. The reason? I saw the same thing happen under the Clinton administration. Clinton appointed his wife to lead the reforms, and after some grandiose speeches, very little was changed. As Michael Moore pointed out, Hillary and a few others took some cash from the corporations, then all efforts to change healthcare died. (Another reason I don't like Hillary). Even though Obama's effort was rushed, I think it was the best chance to make changes. I'm still looking at details, and I don't necessarily agree with the things I've read. But now that the Democrats have told Obama to "slow down", I think that's the end of this story. Based on what happened under Clinton, I fully expect the politicos to step in, water healthcare reform down, and probably even pigeonhole it. I hope I'm just being a cynic, and that Obama will step up and keep forcing the issue, because unlike Ron Paul, I do think that healthcare is a right (in a civilized country). What do you think? Is there still a chance that we'll see major healthcare reform under Obama? Or even in our lifetimes?Trapped on the surface of a sphere. XKCD Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
IEJuggalo 0 #2 July 24, 2009 ...a persons right? Really? Gimme a break. Something has to be done and I am all for reform. But to give it to people that dont take care of themselves, or take risks as we do? I'd like to be the first to piss all over that idea. Thats like saying "when every person turns sixteen, they get a new car." ??? doesn't make sense does it? I love this great country of ours, but I see a grim future ahead if his runaway train can't be stopped. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 0 #3 July 24, 2009 Quote Thats like saying "when every person turns sixteen, they get a new car." ??? Terrible analogy. That's the problem with analyzing complex issues with simplistic analogies: they give short shrift to the main issue, which is best analyzed on its own merits. Like a day without sunshine. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airdvr 197 #4 July 24, 2009 There will be a few small changes, but a large percentage of Americans will still have no health care. A large percentage of that group already has access to healthcare but doesn't use it, and large percentage won't lift a finger to get healthcare unless someone provides it for them.Please don't dent the planet. Destinations by Roxanne Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 18 #5 July 24, 2009 Quote Quote Thats like saying "when every person turns sixteen, they get a new car." ??? Terrible analogy. That's the problem with analyzing complex issues with simplistic analogies: they give short shrift to the main issue, which is best analyzed on its own merits. Like a day without sunshine. It is however the tactic shown us by our current President, is it not?"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lefty 0 #6 July 24, 2009 QuoteA large percentage of that group already has access to healthcare but doesn't use it, and large percentage won't lift a finger to get healthcare unless someone provides it for them. Neither of those groups elicits much sympathy from me.Provoking a reaction isn't the same thing as saying something meaningful. -Calvin Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 18 #7 July 24, 2009 I certinly HOPE this type of bill is dead (along with the cap and trade bill) The real reforms needed, like tort reform and the pull back of state madated procedures and coverage will not happen either. The Dems pockets have too much money of the lawyer lobby and others in their pockets to go after the real reasons of the high costs"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gawain 0 #8 July 24, 2009 Quote...a persons right? Really? Gimme a break. Something has to be done and I am all for reform. But to give it to people that dont take care of themselves, or take risks as we do? I'd like to be the first to piss all over that idea. Thats like saying "when every person turns sixteen, they get a new car." ??? doesn't make sense does it? I love this great country of ours, but I see a grim future ahead if his runaway train can't be stopped. **Applause** I hope this reform measure is killed. Not just faded away...but dead...killed with extreme prejudice. This measure has nothing to do with "health care". It has to do with insurance, "who pays", and control. If the uninsured really need coverage, MEDICAID is your route. Too poor to pay -- there's your government subsidy. For the however many Americans how much would that cost...not a trillion dollars that's for sure. Pretty much everything out of Congress doesn't make sense. It's like the Chewbacca defense...if Wookies aren't from Endor, you must acquit. Well, when Congress starts pushing around thousand-page bills around (which they haven't read)...just reject the notion. Because you know it doesn't make sense.So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright 'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life Make light! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pirana 0 #9 July 24, 2009 I don't see an option like . . . <> Maybe this means we'll get something sensible other than penalize small business and tax the shit out of people while doing very little to actually reform health care delivery or financing." . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pirana 0 #10 July 24, 2009 QuoteThere will be a few small changes, but a large percentage of Americans will still have no health care. A large percentage of that group already has access to healthcare but doesn't use it, and large percentage won't lift a finger to get healthcare unless someone provides it for them. Define "large percentage." The 40 to 45 million number being thrown around by the scaremongers is complete BS. Subtract illegal immigrants, those that can afford it but waive it, those that have access to subsidized care but don't bother, those that are between jobs, and a couple other minor categories and the number is more like 10 to 12 million. Still too many, but manipulation of the facts gives little credibility to those screaming that from the pulpit. I do not consider 3.5 to 4% "large."" . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TomAiello 25 #11 July 24, 2009 I hope not. Healthcare reform is definitely needed. A government take over of medicine, on the other hand, is definitely going to make things worse, not better. I hope we get a real, substantive reform of current government rules--something that benefits all of us. I hope that the current 1000 page set of half-baked ideas is well and truly dead. I'm not confident that it is, but I'm hopeful.-- Tom Aiello [email protected] SnakeRiverBASE.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
d_squared431 0 #12 July 24, 2009 This is an issue that needs years to be done correctly and not an over night thing. I cant for see this happening during his presidency. The main reason why is how it will be paid for. Do you want to pay for the dead beats who dont work, are drug addicts, and dont pay into the system because they dont pay taxes? I don't and nether do most of the population. If you dont pay taxes, if a person is a drug addict, etc they should not be eligible for coverage. You have to be a productive citizen for coverage. We all know the health care reform will happen it is just when and what type of restrictions it will hold.TPM Sister#130ONTIG#1 I love vodka.I love vodka cause it rhymes with Tuaca~LisaH You having a clean thought is like billyvance having a clean post.iluvtofly Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lawrocket 3 #13 July 24, 2009 Health care as a "right?". I can see that. Much like the right to gun ownership. It doesn't mean that the government supplies everybody guns. It means that if you want to bear arms, you will have to bear the cost. So, would you support that a "right" means that the government pays to give it to you? We've got a constitutional right to drink alcohol, yet nobody seems to support the idea that the government should supply it to all for free. My wife is hotter than your wife. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #14 July 24, 2009 QuoteI do think that healthcare is a right. Where do you think your right to free health care, paid for by someone else, comes from? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pirana 0 #15 July 24, 2009 QuoteI hope not. Healthcare reform is definitely needed. A government take over of medicine, on the other hand, is definitely going to make things worse, not better. I hope we get a real, substantive reform of current government rules--something that benefits all of us. I hope that the current 1000 page set of half-baked ideas is well and truly dead. I'm not confident that it is, but I'm hopeful. Can you imagine tha actual content?! Most likely loaded with all kinds of crazy incongruous ideas in order to please as many people and their pet ideas as possible; while avoiding anything that would not directly appeal to the huddled masses - such as personal responsibility. Unfortunately in today's political environment the way to get legislation passed isn't very often about arguing for and doing the right thing; it is about pissing off the fewest number of people and throwing as many as possible a bone they can call their own. It is why we have such a totally fucked up patchwork of regulation today. Don't have to look any further than Medicare Part D, or Medicare reimbursement rules to understand why we should avoid a government run plan and/or reform that just shoves the burden around." . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pirana 0 #16 July 24, 2009 Quote We've got a constitutional right to drink alcohol, yet nobody seems to support the idea that the government should supply it to all for free. Whoa, whoa!!!! Back up there. Can we revisit this?" . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
downwardspiral 0 #17 July 24, 2009 Quote Quote We've got a constitutional right to drink alcohol, yet nobody seems to support the idea that the government should supply it to all for free. Whoa, whoa!!!! Back up there. Can we revisit this? If government beer is anything like government cheese then perhaps we shouldn't.www.FourWheelerHB.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
d_squared431 0 #18 July 24, 2009 Quote Quote Quote We've got a constitutional right to drink alcohol, yet nobody seems to support the idea that the government should supply it to all for free. Whoa, whoa!!!! Back up there. Can we revisit this? If government beer is anything like government cheese then perhaps we shouldn't. I think they call that miller, bud, and coors.....TPM Sister#130ONTIG#1 I love vodka.I love vodka cause it rhymes with Tuaca~LisaH You having a clean thought is like billyvance having a clean post.iluvtofly Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
downwardspiral 0 #19 July 24, 2009 Australian hospital: No Vacancies...come back tomorrow.www.FourWheelerHB.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
downwardspiral 0 #20 July 24, 2009 Quote Quote Quote Quote We've got a constitutional right to drink alcohol, yet nobody seems to support the idea that the government should supply it to all for free. Whoa, whoa!!!! Back up there. Can we revisit this? If government beer is anything like government cheese then perhaps we shouldn't. I think they call that miller, bud, and coors..... I was thinking Pabstwww.FourWheelerHB.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 18 #21 July 24, 2009 Quote Quote Quote Quote Quote We've got a constitutional right to drink alcohol, yet nobody seems to support the idea that the government should supply it to all for free. Whoa, whoa!!!! Back up there. Can we revisit this? If government beer is anything like government cheese then perhaps we shouldn't. I think they call that miller, bud, and coors..... I was thinking Pabst Grain Belt or Schlitz"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
d_squared431 0 #22 July 24, 2009 Quote Quote Quote Quote Quote We've got a constitutional right to drink alcohol, yet nobody seems to support the idea that the government should supply it to all for free. Whoa, whoa!!!! Back up there. Can we revisit this? If government beer is anything like government cheese then perhaps we shouldn't. I think they call that miller, bud, and coors..... I was thinking Pabst TPM Sister#130ONTIG#1 I love vodka.I love vodka cause it rhymes with Tuaca~LisaH You having a clean thought is like billyvance having a clean post.iluvtofly Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rookie120 0 #23 July 24, 2009 QuoteGrain Belt or Schlitz Naaaa, Hamms!If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 18 #24 July 24, 2009 Quote Quote Grain Belt or Schlitz Naaaa, Hamms! From the land of sky blue waters. Comes the beer refreshing"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lawrocket 3 #25 July 24, 2009 Quote From the land of sky blue waters. (Waters..) Comes the beer refreshing Had to fix it. My wife is hotter than your wife. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
