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Andy9o8

A Canadian experience with Canadian health-care

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I am going to say she is pretty much right, and leave it at that. They'll take you into the ER and fix you up, but it ends there.



You've actually been in this situation, and that's what happened? Or are you just casting stereotypes based on what you think would happen, or what you heard would happen?
-- Tom Aiello

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SnakeRiverBASE.com

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Not me, but my kids (which I just posted about), and my brother actually did break his leg playing football at the beach. No insurance, got xrays and a cast, that was really it. They did say to come back in x amount of weeks to get it taken off.....at ridiculiously high prices we were sure. My Mom has worked at the same dentist's office for 20+ years....the Dentist cut it off. :|

I am now confused, because apparently this isn't how it is everywhere?


Jordan

Go Fast, Dock Soft.

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I've taken people with no insurance for help after accidents, and that's not what happened at all. They pretty much got the same care as people with insurance, including multi-day hospital stays and follow up care. The hospital kept track of the bill, then tried to get them to pay on installments, and eventually decided to write it off.

Their insurance, or lack thereof, made no difference to the care they received--only to the billing activity after the fact. In several cases I know, for a fact, that the treating physician was unaware of their insurance (or lack of insurance) status.
-- Tom Aiello

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SnakeRiverBASE.com

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I guess rural SC isn't the place to be without insurance.....or Myrtle Beach. To me, its actually pretty sad that there is that much of a difference from place to place.

I am not saying my kids, or my brother were treated poorly. Quite the opposite, my brothers leg, which was just a fracture....healed without a hitch. Even with zero care after he left the ER. In each case, IMO, we were given the very very basic level of care, and released. Although none of these incidents were serious enough to require an overnight stay. I don't know what the answer is for the US and our health system. I just know, based on my experiences, there is a bunch that needs fixing.:)


Jordan

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Neither have I.aqqqq

Oh, yeah. I plan ahead and buy insurance versus buying other things. Just because I pride myself on taking care of myself and my own.

Now, of course, I will get less so that I can take care of others, too.



Have you ever lived without insurance? Not everybody is created equal in this world and unfortunately there are some folks who work at the local diner, or bag groceries at the local store, and make minimum wage in a job that offers no health coverage and only pays enough to cover their daily living expenses and bills. A lot of these people are good people who are just trying to hold their head above water... they're not going out and boozing it, or blowing their money on fancy things. (though I am sure there are those types out there who make enough money to pay for their own insurance yet choose to blow it on a new car or clothes.)

If everybody had the brains to become PHd's, or just get a degree in something, then the world would be totally screwed. My parents were not the ivy league educated go to school type, so they worked in resturaunts, at local stores, or whatever they could to provide for us with the skills and knowledge that they had, which meant a lot of the jobs they worked were minimum wage with no health insurance. I didn't have health insurance until I took my first job out of college when I was 23 years old.

Take my situation I just explained. Why does any child deserve to not be cared for if their parents do the best they can and do not have health insurance? I grew up not being able to go to a hospital unless I thought I was going to die, or if you're sick you wait it out to make sure its an infection you can't get rid of without antibiotics. I just get the feeling that some of the people on the republican high horse fighting against this health plan like to paint a picture that all of these people who would benefit from the program are a bunch of no good wellfare, white trash, money grubbing, low life bums that have nothing better to do than life off the man above them on the totum pole. Beacause my parents couldn't provide health care insurance for us you have basically said they didn't have pride in themselves or taking care of their own. I beg to differ, sir... my mother worked harder in her life and worried more in her life for her kids than I will ever have to work or worry sitting in my little comfy cube with my fancy masters degree and cozy job.

It is just the way it is. Not every single person has the mental or intellectual ability to go off and get a higher education so they can get some big fancy paying job and good health insurance. If that were the case, the world would crumble because we wouldn't have anybody to serve you coffee at your local diner, or clean up in that fancy office building you work in. It is the way it is and other governments have realized that and made a health care system to account for it. The U.S hasn't, and it's not big suprise. It's like we're always chasing a dime here and everything has to be a big money making machine (like the insurance companies). The OP's story that was posted was a perfect example of why this system works so well in other places. Most people share that author's opinion; at least most I know that live in other countries. Sure, you "take pride in yourself and your family" by being blessed enough to have gone to school, get a good job and a great insurance plan so you don't have to worry about these things, but it's not going to be like that for everybody unfortunately. So.. good for you and here's a pat on the back for going out and making it for yourself and making sure your family has good insurance. I've tried to do the same thing with my life because you have to in the U.S, but some people aren't going to be as lucky as you are I, and personally, I don't think children or newborns, like the ones in this story, should be punished for being dealt the cards of having a family that does not have insurance.

You won't "get less," if these people are taken care of. Republicans are always running around screaming about how they are getting this and that taken from them. Do the Canadians feel like they are "getting less" because some of their taxes go towards health care? What about people in the UK? France? All over the world? I've never once heard somebody from any of these places complain that they feel they get so much less in terms of their health stuff, or life in general, because of the system they have in place.

Sorry for the rant, but I had a few minutes today to get a bit off my chest out this whole thing. [:/]
Apologies for the spelling (and grammar).... I got a B.S, not a B.A. :)

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I've taken people with no insurance for help after accidents, and that's not what happened at all. They pretty much got the same care as people with insurance, including multi-day hospital stays and follow up care. The hospital kept track of the bill, then tried to get them to pay on installments, and eventually decided to write it off.

Their insurance, or lack thereof, made no difference to the care they received--only to the billing activity after the fact. In several cases I know, for a fact, that the treating physician was unaware of their insurance (or lack of insurance) status.



What hospital were you going to? I've been to two hospitals in two different states and once they found out I didn't have insurance, I got taken in for xrays, and left in a hallway and only got talked to by a nurse. Never saw a doc, and never got to look at my xrays or get into a bed. But the kid next to me who also was getting arm xrays had insurance and got the full work up and royal treatment; got transferred right into a room and taken care of... even offered food as soon as they got him settled into the bed area. I was 12, and twisted my elbow skating, and I'll never forget my mother crying that day when we saw a kid the same age, with a similar injury and treatment needed, right next to me getting royal treatment when I couldn't even get a doc to come talk to me in the hallway. Then we had to go down and argue with the charity care people, who didn't end up covering anything anyway. :(
Apologies for the spelling (and grammar).... I got a B.S, not a B.A. :)

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What hospital were you going to?



Saint Luke's Magic Valley, in Twin Falls, Idaho. I've taken several people there after BASE incidents, and some of them didn't have insurance, while others did. I was able to talk with some of the doctors involved at other times, and find out how the process had worked.
-- Tom Aiello

[email protected]
SnakeRiverBASE.com

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Have you ever lived without insurance?



Yes. And when I did, I made a conscious decision to refrain from risky behaviors, because I was concerned about the possibility of injury. I figured that trying to save (or make) some more money to buy insurance was more important than going skydiving, or climbing, or whatever.
-- Tom Aiello

[email protected]
SnakeRiverBASE.com

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Sorry for the rant, but I had a few minutes today to get a bit off my chest out this whole thing. [:/]



You're entitled to rant. The system IS broke. But... I still DO NOT think that the government is the solution. And... in many cases, insurance seems like a scam. (personally... I wonder if we should go back to patient/physician contracts... or even barter)

My background: Lower middle class family in rural Wisconsin, both parents worked - Dad was retired 20years military and then worked for the state, Mom worked as a secretary. Not top crust or silver spoon. But working for the state has benefits - including health care... which is one of the reasons why he applied and got that job.

We only went to the ER for broken bones or significant issues (yes... I had a couple growing up) But even with insurance, it gets expensive. When my Father had his stroke, things got TIGHT. We almost lost the family house due to nursing home costs... but that was when we as a family all worked together to keep it. Should my mom have had that stress? Or should the wonderful government have stepped in and told her "It's ok, Nancy. These people over here have more money, lets just take it from them and let you not worry your pretty lil head about such things."

I think that's theft. We worked for what we had. With our labor, we kept our property. Was it "luck" or determination. Had we taken what someone else had worked for... it wouldn't have been "ours." We would have been forcing another to labor at our benefit... That's theft. There's a point at which you can't get any more from the "evil rich." You can only tax and steal so much... then there's no more. There's a saying in Medicine: "All bleeding stops..... eventually"

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It's unconscienable to me that ppl w/o insurance can afford to BASE jump or skydive.
They need to be (i) taken to the dumpster, or (ii) we need to have mandatory health insurance for all. I prefer (ii).

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What hospital were you going to?



Saint Luke's Magic Valley, in Twin Falls, Idaho. I've taken several people there after BASE incidents, and some of them didn't have insurance, while others did. I was able to talk with some of the doctors involved at other times, and find out how the process had worked.

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Was it "luck" or determination



See this is the only problem I have with that argument. Some people, no matter how determined they might be, are just dealt a crappy hand. People that will never get a job with benefits. Why is health care, even if it is from the government, stealing? Taxes? We pay tons of them now, and I am sure many many are for much less of a "cause" than this. So overhaul the system completely.....I know wishful thinking. But still, IMO, taxes are one of the only certain things in life. I pay 'em as well. I still don't see how it's stealing......granted some people will and do abuse the system....they are scum.

I think the USA is the greatest country on earth. That's why I joined the Army, and spent so much time aways from my wife and kids. I think we are in a day and age where health care isn't a nice privilege for those that can afford it....it should be, no it is a basic human right. We're one of the, if not the wealthiest country in the world, why can't we make sure that all people have access to decent care? And, to me, the ER mess we have now isn't the solution. I'm not saying a government option is the best answer...or that it won't cause a whole slew of other problems. But, I haven't heard a solution yet from the "other side" that covers every one.

I respect everyone's opinion, I just don't get all of them sometimes.

Jordan

Go Fast, Dock Soft.

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Thanks, but it's a cut-n-paste of an article; the new baby is the author's, not mine. But I have 2 great kids of my own, and I'm always willing to accept congratulations for them!



:$.....I really really should read stuff a few times before posting. I don't know how I missed that, 'tis plain as day looking back at it now. :S

Jordan

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But still, IMO, taxes are one of the only certain things in life.



That is, quite frankly, utter bullshit.

40% of Americans pay no Federal Income Tax. By some estimates, by the 2010 election, a majority of registered voters will pay no Federal Income Tax.



Not paying federal income tax != not paying taxes. Did you overlook that fact every time it has been previously mentioned, or are you intentionally making an intellectually dishonest argument?
Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!

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We're one of the, if not the wealthiest country in the world, why can't we make sure that all people have access to decent care?



I heard a term yesterday that I think is appropriate for the US right now - "credit card rich".

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I respect everyone's opinion, I just don't get all of them sometimes.



I'd say the same thing. I mean if big government was the answer, everything would be fixed by now.

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See, the same exact answer each and every time just about. The big scary government. I will fully support a non government option, if it will cover EVERYBODY. Haven't heard another viable solution yet. I just keep thinking "we aren't talking about the government giving out free ham sandwhiches" :S....its health care. I don't think that is something that should be denied to people because they don't have enough money. I can't wrap my head around how others see it any different. I am not being hostile here, I seriously can't understand it. :(

edit to add: The big scary government part wasn't meant to sound so....pissy........just got on a roll after reading the "big government" part of your post. :)


Jordan

Go Fast, Dock Soft.

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See, the same exact answer each and every time just about. The big scary government.



We'll in that case I'll assume that it's pretty obvious they're not the solution.

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I will fully support a non government option, if it will cover EVERYBODY.



No private company has the power to force things on people - so if you want everyone to have it, even if they don't want it, that's you're only choice. I lean towards the option of letting people make their own decisions.

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Haven't heard another viable solution yet.



Government doesn't like to talk about solutions that don't involve them. I've heard many different suggestions - all better than letting the federal government take control.

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I just keep thinking "we aren't talking about the government giving out free ham sandwhiches" :S....its health care.


Agreed, and that's exactly why they don't need to be involved. You can't give them the power to provide something without also giving them the power to take it away.

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I don't think that is something that should be denied to people because they don't have enough money.



I don't think most people are being denied anything - I think they're just upset when they're expected to pay for it. That, in combination with politicians looking for attention and the next thing that needs more of them in it is the real 'crisis'.

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edit to add: The big scary government part wasn't meant to sound so....pissy........just got on a roll after reading the "big government" part of your post. :)



Understandable - it's a pretty common thing. I'm probably as tired of saying it as you are of hearing it.

I know there are issues with the health care system, but I just honestly think govt has no chance of improving it, and even if they make it much worse than it already is, they'll never give it up.

Look at the plan MA has implemented in their state - the plan Obama is pushing is similar.

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In March 2008 the Boston Globe reported that some "safety-net" hospitals serving low-income individuals in urban areas were facing budget shortfalls due to the combination of reduced "free-care" payments from the state and low enrollment in Commonwealth Care. The reduced state payments anticipated that by reducing the number of uninsured people Commonwealth Care would reduce the amount of charity care provided by hospitals.[43] In a subsequent story that same month the Globe reported that Commonwealth Care faced a short-term funding gap of $100 million and the need to obtain a new three-year funding commitment from the federal government of $1.5 billion. The Globe reported that a number of alternatives were under consideration for raising additional funding, including a $1 per pack increase in the state's cigarette tax. Health care costs in the state were rising at an annual rate of 10 percent, and the state budget deficit was $1.3 billion.[44]

The influx of more than a quarter of a million newly insured residents has led to overcrowded waiting rooms and overworked primary-care physicians who were already in short supply in Massachusetts.

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See, the same exact answer each and every time just about. The big scary government. I will fully support a non government option, if it will cover EVERYBODY. Haven't heard another viable solution yet. I just keep thinking "we aren't talking about the government giving out free ham sandwhiches" :S....its health care. I don't think that is something that should be denied to people because they don't have enough money. I can't wrap my head around how others see it any different. I am not being hostile here, I seriously can't understand it. :(

edit to add: The big scary government part wasn't meant to sound so....pissy........just got on a role after reading the "big government" part of your post. :)




From my perspective:

I worked quite hard to get an education. I got a HUGE stack of personal loans to go to medical school. I spent 4 years in residency (even before the federal work hour restictions).

And now... "Everybody should get it for free." When the cry comes out like that... it comes across to me as "Karen, just do it for free." (which I kind of do with Medicaid. . . and I definitely do on my medical missions - but I personally make the choice to go on those)


Also, I think parallels - Food... food is important. Everyone should get food for free (which we kind of do with WIC) And I'm sure the farmers hear "Just plow that field for me for free"

And the answer comes back, "but we don't mean that you have to work for free..." but who will be paying me? The government? Lets look at that bankroll... it's going to go broke.
So others say... "we pay XXXX for the military, why can't we...." BECAUSE IT'S THE GOVERNMENT. DUH!

And... when you're not paying for it or having a vested interest in conserving cost, you REALLY DO NOT CARE about abuse of the system. TRUST ME ON THAT. At least once a week, I have to "kick out" a patient that doesn't NEED to be an inpatient in on post partum when the baby has to stay in the NICU. And often I hear - "But it's not MY money." Or they want an extra ultra sound to look at the sex of the baby again... and I have to tell them that I don't have a MEDICAL indication and I will not commit medicaid fraud for the sake of them knowing boy/girl. This is something that I VERY COMMONLY deal with.

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I am not for pushing things on anyone. It should have read "available" to everyone. Good care, not the b.s. we have now.

My family and I are what I'd call a good example of how the system should work. My wife and I met in high school. I was 15 she 17, dated for about a year and we got pregnant. I was 16, her 18 at the time. We made a dumb decision, not using BC. Or some would say just not had sex at all. Granted, it was stupid and irresponsible, but what was done was done. We got married, got our own place and got ready for the baby. I got a job bagging groceries, she was working in the front office of an amusement park. Neither offered health insurance, so medicaid was the only answer, other than a mountain of debt. After my son was born, we got on WIC, and had been on food stamps since we got married. I finished high school, working at night and joined the Army the moment I finished.

I appreciate the system, I benefited from it, and think it should be there for others that need it as well. We both made dumb decisions as kids, but we took what was available to us, and made the best of it.

I don't think anyone should get anything for free. I also don't think $12,000 for less than 10 hrs total in the hospital, for some xrays, a non broken arm, and a broken nose is reasonable. You can't convince me that I didn't get raped going in there. But, we work hard, and will pay our bill, no matter how ridiculous I think it is. We still struggle, but we do it without assistance now. And can only hope for better in the future. The point is, we are the USA, we shouldn't let those less fortunate fall by the way side. I just think, like the military, the rest of the country should take care of their own. There will always be shit heads that try and ruin it for the folks that really need it. They are scum, and deserve to spend some quality time behind bars.

Jordan

Go Fast, Dock Soft.

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And you by far have the strongest argument against.

I don't know the answers, if I did....I'd run for public office. I don't think you should do it for free. Nor the farmer, Nor am I saying that said program is the only form of health care. I hear the arguement, that if the government steps in, the rest of the insurance compainies will go belly up. I guess, I honestly just don't think that'll be the case. Having now spent almost 10 years in the military (between my wife and I) I know how crappy the government can be at this. But, even at its worst, it was still much better than the situation we were in for just under 2 years. No health insurance, and two kids.

Jordan

Go Fast, Dock Soft.

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But still, IMO, taxes are one of the only certain things in life.



That is, quite frankly, utter bullshit.

40% of Americans pay no Federal Income Tax. By some estimates, by the 2010 election, a majority of registered voters will pay no Federal Income Tax.



Not paying federal income tax != not paying taxes. Did you overlook that fact every time it has been previously mentioned, or are you intentionally making an intellectually dishonest argument?



Is the proposal to fund this new healthcare plan out of something other than federal income tax revenues?

Because if not, then that's the relevant taxation to discuss, isn't it?

Perhaps I've missed a proposal that would pay for this out of some other tax scheme. Can you provide me a reference so I can read up on that? Thanks!
-- Tom Aiello

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SnakeRiverBASE.com

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I can't tell you one person I know, and I know lots of poor people ;), that doesn't pay any taxes.



Again, 40% of Americans pay no Federal Income Tax. The proposals currently on the table would all fund some sort of healthcare reform from Federal Income Tax.

Are you denying that almost half of Americans pay no Federal Income Tax? Or are you saying that some other tax is more relevant to this specific debate?
-- Tom Aiello

[email protected]
SnakeRiverBASE.com

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