Home Bible Study Group Illegal?

[quade 3]

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well, either way, i have to wonder: If this had been a weekly sports-watching party, would we even be talking about it now?

Even if one of the semi-buzzed fans hit a neighbor's car, would the neighbor have called the county or handled it like most normal people handle a fender-bender?

Would it even be in the news?

No. Of course not. However, the only reason it's in the news is because the Pastor's lawyer went to the media. He's the one that's whipping up the controversy.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[SkyDekker 1,121]

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well, either way, i have to wonder: If this had been a weekly sports-watching party, would we even be talking about it now?

No cause sports watching is not excluded in residential zoning, religous gatherings are.

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Even if one of the semi-buzzed fans hit a neighbor's car, would the neighbor have called the county

Maybe, but they would have been told it is not a zoning issue. This one was, so they had to act.

From the story it sounds like the guy was a real dick. But, who knows how long this has been festering? It may have just been a culmination of years of aggravation. We just don't know at this point.

You seem to be taking it as an insult to christiantity, or an assault on your religion. In my opinion, thta is just not the case. The guy probably found out that it was a zoning infraction and wanted the issue dealt with for whatever reason.

[siddacious 0]

My first thought was "Whaaaaat?!" Why on earth would there be a problem with bible study groups? Let people do whatever the heck they want to in their own homes. However it is of course not that simple. As petty as it may seem, the parking impact from regular large meetings, whatever their type, is a real issue. Also, it seems that in this particular case both sides of the actual parties involved have tended towards overreaction. DUDES. CHILL.

A dolor netus non dui aliquet, sagittis felis sodales, dolor sociis mauris, vel eu libero cras. Interdum at. Eget habitasse elementum est.

[BikerBabe 0]

no, read my previous post with my disclaimer.

personally, yeah, it worries me because a weekly part of my life may be in jeopardy. But on a larger level, it's worrisome because i think it's pretty intrusive. I don't care if you're meeting in your house to talk about Jesus, Buddha, Allah, guns, the Chargers, or pink elephants. People should be allowed to freely assemble in their homes.

You know i have been using a weekly sports party as an analogy, but that's perhaps not controversial enough. What if, say, the neighbors had a weekly swingers party/orgy?

And the fundamental question is...why is one type of weekly gathering a zoning issue, and another not? Cars on the street and blocking access, etc is the SAME, no matter what the purpose of the meeting is.

Never meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup!

[JohnnyD 0]

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If you don't piss off your neighbours, none of this really matters.

In a nutshell.

[kelpdiver 2]

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All that being said, the number of weekly bible studies in the US is probably a lot larger than you think. It really sounds to me like this neighbor had a bug up his ass about the "church people" meeting and decided to get sue happy rather than resolve a fender bender like an adult...which is exchange insurance info and maybe file a police report and call it a day.

Lots of technical or minor zoning issues persist until someone makes a complaint.

Somewhat similarly, California has a 72 hour limit on parking on the street. In some neighborhoods, this gets enforced with weekly street sweeping. But many residential neighborhoods do not enforce, and you see cars sitting for months. Unless someone complains - even for BS reasons like you parked in front of their house or you took the tailgate off your truck. Then the cops come out, leave a note on your car to move within 72 hours or they'll tow.

[wmw999 2,120]

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Even if one of the semi-buzzed fans hit a neighbor's car, would the neighbor have called the county or handled it like most normal people handle a fender-bender?

Prolly depends on the neighbor. We had one who objected to someone parking in front of his house (we had a party that night -- not loud or raucous, but someone did park across the street from us).

He took all the lug nuts off that guys' car and put them on the roof. He was an asshole. Of course, the guy who's car was "attacked" reacted stronglly (words like "attempted murder were used"). Namecalling ensued, and police ensued. Because folks from our party were calling the neighbor names were standing on HIS lawn, there was a discussion about just how many people would go to the pokey if pokey ensued .

I can believe just about anything about neighbors, and people who feel as though their "rights" have been improperly infringed.

Now where's that eye-rolling icon when you need it?

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[Andy9o8 0]

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just how many people would go to the pokey if pokey ensued

I just had an epiphanal realization of why they call it the pokey.

[BikerBabe 0]

LMAO! oh boy, i haven't laughed that hard in a while...

Never meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup!

[kelpdiver 2]

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You know i have been using a weekly sports party as an analogy, but that's perhaps not controversial enough. What if, say, the neighbors had a weekly swingers party/orgy?

Until they start advertizing it in the weekly paper or charging for admission, it's a private party like any other.

Recently the neighbors of a SF spot challenged and killed the permit for a sex club (The Power Exchange) to reopen.

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And the fundamental question is...why is one type of weekly gathering a zoning issue, and another not? Cars on the street and blocking access, etc is the SAME, no matter what the purpose of the meeting is.

Because religion is one of many uses that is covered by zoning policy. If a new usage type became a problem, it would be addressed at that time.

You keep want to deal in hypotheticals. What we know is that this one built up to a dispute. And I don't think anyone here has said it has to go. Just that it has to be examined.

[BikerBabe 0]

so my weekly small group is a private party like any other. that just happens to read the bible when we're there.

My point is that singling out "religion" in the zoning is what needs to be looked at here.

why do zoning laws prohibit the free exercise of religion?

Never meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup!

[quade 3]

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why do zoning laws prohibit the free exercise of religion?

My guess is that if you actually look them up, they don't.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[TomAiello 25]

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California has a 72 hour limit on parking on the street.

Wow. Really? That's statewide?

In college, I'd leave my car parked in front of my house for much longer than 72 hours (because I'd ride my bicycle to and from campus, and only really drove my car on weekends). If they'd had that rule then, I'd have gotten a lot of tickets.

-- Tom Aiello

[email protected]
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[quade 3]

http://www.ladot.lacity.org/tf_Abandoned_Vehicles.htm

I don't think 72 hours is state wide, but it's certainly is in LA and it's authorized elsewhere in the state depending on the local laws.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[DJL 232]

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No cause sports watching is not excluded in residential zoning, religous gatherings are.

If someone were holding a weekly gathering at their house that caused parking problems and then we'd be talking about the same thing. But nobody here is confusing a gathering of a few people regardless of the purpose vs. something that causes problems with the neighbors.

"I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher

[kelpdiver 2]

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http://www.ladot.lacity.org/tf_Abandoned_Vehicles.htm

I don't think 72 hours is state wide, but it's certainly is in LA and it's authorized elsewhere in the state depending on the local laws.

CVC 22651(k) covers this: Any vehicles seen or reported as parked motionless or left abandoned on any public street may be marked by officers as possibly abandoned. Owners then have 72 hours ( 3 days ) from the time marked to remove the vehicle before it is towed away, per 22551 (k) CVC., 22660 CVC.

also saw this one.
21113(a) CVC Parking Over 72 Hours

But yes, implementation varies considerably. Many towns have their own ordinance built on 22651. In 'nicer' neighborhoods, it only seems to come up when the car is truly a blight, or the neighbor is an asshole. (I had this come up once - I only drive on weekends. Though my housemate hadn't moved his 70s muscle car in months, I got the notice, saw it just in time. )

[kelpdiver 2]

You seem to have a persecution complex. No matter how many times we say this isn't an attack on religion, you keep insisting it is.

[RonD1120 58]

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I was saved, that is I knew that I knew I was saved, at Mono Lake in Lee Vining, CA on 16 Mar 81. The sense of love, acceptance, safety and peace of mind was overwhelming. From that moment on I have been compelled to share that experience whenever possible. I have appeared on national and local TV, local radio, ran Bible study groups, had a private Christian counseling practice and started various ministries. The one thing I have had impressed upon me is, you can talk about anything as long as you don't mention Jesus Christ of Nazareth.

There is something about that name.

We may soon be as the first century Christians, underground covert witnesses, drawing half a circle in the sand to see if the other person completes the other half, making the fish symbol.

Really? Do you honestly feel that in AMERICA Christians are being hunted down and now have to have an underground movement in order to survive?






Really?!?

No, not yet. However, I believe I see the storm clouds on the horizon.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[BikerBabe 0]

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You seem to have a persecution complex. No matter how many times we say this isn't an attack on religion, you keep insisting it is.

lmao

i'd have been in the loony bin a long time ago if that was the case. really i just love to argue

Never meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup!

[usedtajump 1]

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no, read my previous post with my disclaimer.

personally, yeah, it worries me because a weekly part of my life may be in jeopardy. But on a larger level, it's worrisome because i think it's pretty intrusive. I don't care if you're meeting in your house to talk about Jesus, Buddha, Allah, guns, the Chargers, or pink elephants. People should be allowed to freely assemble in their homes.

You know i have been using a weekly sports party as an analogy, but that's perhaps not controversial enough. What if, say, the neighbors had a weekly swingers party/orgy?

And the fundamental question is...why is one type of weekly gathering a zoning issue, and another not? Cars on the street and blocking access, etc is the SAME, no matter what the purpose of the meeting is.

Oddly enough, some time before, in the same Dallas neighborhood that Jesus Christ of Nazareth was tossed out of, there had been a rather well attended swingers group that met at a house on a somewhat regular basis and guess what, busted. Zoning and parking violations. Again, in this instance I didn't feel that enforcement of the law was anti sex but it did rid the neighborhood of some fairly gnarly looking swingers.

The older I get the less I care who I piss off.

[stoneycase 0]

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so my weekly small group is a private party like any other. that just happens to read the bible when we're there.

My point is that singling out "religion" in the zoning is what needs to be looked at here.

why do zoning laws prohibit the free exercise of religion?

sounds to me like the problem is about the parking situation. it could have been a meeting on skydiving, really.

in my personal experiences, parking in your neighborhood can easily become a "sore spot" amongst neighbors. especially if that parking is limited.

then there is the "asshole factor". the visitor who called the cops in the first place, after (allegedly) a bible study member hit his car and took off. like it or not, when somebody complains to the cops/government (local/state/fed/etc), the gov tends to get involved.

i do thoroughly enjoy when "deeply religious" people turn any criticism against them into an attack on their religion though. makes for good tv, and snippets for the internet.

BTW, here's the county's response: http://www.10news.com/video/19596391/

"However, what our (code) officer was trying to do was establish what the use is, so we know what regulation to actually utilize....bible studies are in a grey area...we want to make sure they are...parking safely..."

Does whisky count as beer? - Homer
There's no justice like angry mob justice. - Skinner
Be careful. There's a limited future in low pulls - JohnMitchell

[quade 3]

I also have to say that I think the reporter is a bit of an asshat for covering the story the way he has.

True, he's finally talked to a city official, but he continues to play up the Pastor's belief that the city is "out to get him."

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[BikerBabe 0]

sure...but once again i ask, why are bible studies a "grey area"?

If it's a parking violation, it's a violation, give them a ticket and move on. Seems pretty black and white to me.

why does it matter what they were doing in the house? If it's not about religion at all...then why bother asking what they were doing?

Never meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup!

[quade 3]

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why does it matter what they were doing in the house? If it's not about religion at all...then why bother asking what they were doing?

Watch that piece again. I really think the reporter is ginning up the story and has probably taken the "grey area" comment out of context of what was actually said.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[BikerBabe 0]

perhaps, but the county is freely admitting that they asked the pastor and his wife if they pray, say amen, praise the Lord, etc.

this goes back to the original stories.

And the county isn't denying it.

So once again...why does it matter?

Never meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup!