Torture v. Getting Shot in the Head

[AWL71 0]

My question is this: Why is the anti-enhanced interrogation technique crowd not up in arms over the shooting over the three Somaili pirates. Three men were killed to save the life of one men! What about their rights?

So what is wrong with waterbarding Khalid Sheikh Mohammed or other terrorists if it saves lives? You can't possibly believe that no good information was obtained from these interrogations that prevented attacks and saved lives.

So if the killing of the three pirates is justified to save one man why isn't waterboarding or using other NON -LETHAL techniques on known terrorists justified to save lives?

The most terrifying words in the English language are: I'm from the government and I'm here to help.

[jerryzflies 0]

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My question is this: Why is the anti-enhanced interrogation technique crowd not up in arms over the shooting over the three Somaili pirates. Three men were killed to save the life of one men! What about their rights?

So what is wrong with waterbarding Khalid Sheikh Mohammed or other terrorists if it saves lives? You can't possibly believe that no good information was obtained from these interrogations that prevented attacks and saved lives.

So if the killing of the three pirates is justified to save one man why isn't waterboarding or using other NON -LETHAL techniques on known terrorists justified to save lives?

Maybe because shooting pirates is effective, and torture isn't.

"The bottom line is these techniques have hurt our image around the world. The damage they have done to our interests far outweighed whatever benefit they gave us and they are not essential to our national security" - Admiral Blair.

If you can't fix it with a hammer, the problem's electrical.

[JohnRich 4]

It all depends upon who is president, as to whether these techniques are justifiable or not.

[Ian84 0]

I would say that if you torture someone based on the fact they MIGHT have useful information, the chances of you punishing an innocent person every so often are pretty high. If you shoot a bunch of guys who are poking a kidnapped man in the back with an AK-47, the chances they are innocent are somewhat slimmer. I'm sure there are other moral reasons but I haven't thought enough about it to comment more than superficially.

[jakee 1,441]

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My question is this: Why is the anti-enhanced interrogation technique crowd not up in arms over the shooting over the three Somaili pirates.

My question is this: Why should we be?

Regardless of the discussions of the morality and effectiveness of torture, do you even comprehend the difference between what happens in captivity vs what happens in action?

Tell you what, this will probably confuse the fuck out of you, I think it's fine that they killed those pirates, however if they had sucesfully captured them and then shot them in the head, I'd be up in arms about that.

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So what is wrong with waterbarding Khalid Sheikh Mohammed or other terrorists if it saves lives? You can't possibly believe that no good information was obtained from these interrogations that prevented attacks and saved lives

Have you actually ignored everything that has been said on this subject, on this forum, up until now?

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[shropshire 0]

+1

It beggars belief, eh?

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[lawrocket 3]

What's wrong?

How about the number of people who are tortured who have no information? Think of Lethal Weapon where Riggs is being tortured. Afterwards Endo said, "He don't know shit. Nobody can take that."

What happens more often is that bad information is given just to make the torture stop.

And for those poor souls who are not in the know, how can it eveer be justified? In my mind it cannot be justified. Ever.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[AWL71 0]

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My question is this: Why is the anti-enhanced interrogation technique crowd not up in arms over the shooting over the three Somaili pirates.

My question is this: Why should we be?

Regardless of the discussions of the morality and effectiveness of torture, do you even comprehend the difference between what happens in captivity vs what happens in action?

Tell you what, this will probably confuse the fuck out of you, I think it's fine that they killed those pirates, however if they had sucesfully captured them and then shot them in the head, I'd be up in arms about that.

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So what is wrong with waterbarding Khalid Sheikh Mohammed or other terrorists if it saves lives? You can't possibly believe that no good information was obtained from these interrogations that prevented attacks and saved lives

Have you actually ignored everything that has been said on this subject, on this forum, up until now?

Ugh, No. I know quite well what has been said on the forum but I don't agree with it. I don't give a damn about our image in the world. I believe in doing what needs needs to be done. I will leave the whining, hand wringing, and denial to the Kool-Aid crowd.

The most terrifying words in the English language are: I'm from the government and I'm here to help.

[JackC 0]

If you are in a fight with the enemy, it is acceptable to shoot them. If you capture the enemy, you must abide by the treaties you have signed (including the ones prohibiting torture). It's not about who is president, it's about doing the right thing.

[Lindsey 0]

Then it's okay for people to torture Americans, too, if they need information? Are you bothered by it when the tables are turned?

--
A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail

[ryoder 1,590]

Under a torture, the victim will tell the torturer anything he thinks the torturer wants to hear, just to get the torture to stop. Truth versus fiction is totally irrelevant.

Anyone who thinks torture is justified, or even works, needs to see:

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0854678/

"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.

[billvon 2,894]

> I believe in doing what needs needs to be done.

Which would make sense if torture worked. But the world is not like an episode of 24, and is not defined by what gets posted on right wing websites. When you talk to people who spend their lives interrogating prisoners, it's clear that torture doesn't work.

However, shooting pirates does work pretty well. That captain is now free and the incident is over.

[sfc 1]

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It all depends upon who is president, as to whether these techniques are justifiable or not.

No the law doesn't care who is president, torture is still illegal (i.e. unjustifiable) the only difference between presidents is that some break the law.

[rushmc 23]

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Then it's okay for people to torture Americans, too, if they need information? Are you bothered by it when the tables are turned?

Is sawing off someones head OK?

Dont seem like they were after any info?

Ok, I forgot, it is all our own fault

My bad

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[AWL71 0]

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> I believe in doing what needs needs to be done.

Which would make sense if torture worked. But the world is not like an episode of 24, and is not defined by what gets posted on right wing websites. When you talk to people who spend their lives interrogating prisoners, it's clear that torture doesn't work.

However, shooting pirates does work pretty well. That captain is now free and the incident is over.

I know the world is not like an episode of 24. Do you honestly believe that we gathered no information that saved lives during the war on terror? Are you going to get false information from time to time? Of course. Does that mean you stop the interrogations? Were talking about non-lethal techniques here. I just don't see the problem in protecting our country with waterboarding and other non-lethal techniques.

The most terrifying words in the English language are: I'm from the government and I'm here to help.

[billvon 2,894]

> Do you honestly believe that we gathered no information that saved
> lives during the war on terror?

We gathered a lot of good information. It was gathered by the people who, today, are saying torture doesn't work - and I am very glad they, and not some Jack Bauer wannabe, was in charge.

We also tortured people, and got no good information. It would have been trumpeted if we had, because that would be the one thing that could justify such a violation of prisoners.

>Were talking about non-lethal techniques here.

They weren't always non-lethal.

[idrankwhat 0]

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It all depends upon who is president, as to whether these techniques are justifiable or not.

Maybe for you but not for me.
The three pirates who were shot were actively taking part in piracy and the life of the captain was in immediate danger. Take 'em out and toss them to the sharks for all I care. The people in Guantanamo were what? The minority were terrorists actively taking part in hostilities on the battlefield. The majority were unknowns. Many of them were picked up because someone dropped their name, either get them out of the way or simply for the ransom that we were offering. You don't shoot "suspects".
And in either case, once they are prisoners then you treat the according to the laws set forth to deal with prisoners. The three pirates shot in the act of piracy played the game and lost. Now the one in custody doesn't deserve what his colleagues got. He gets his day in court, as the law provides.

[Amazon 7]

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My question is this: Why is the anti-enhanced interrogation technique crowd not up in arms over the shooting over the three Somaili pirates. Three men were killed to save the life of one men! What about their rights?

So what is wrong with waterbarding Khalid Sheikh Mohammed or other terrorists if it saves lives? You can't possibly believe that no good information was obtained from these interrogations that prevented attacks and saved lives.

So if the killing of the three pirates is justified to save one man why isn't waterboarding or using other NON -LETHAL techniques on known terrorists justified to save lives?

Pirates were armed.. the prisoners.. were not.. maybe they should have all been wasted in Afghanistan in the first place while they were still armed combatants.

[Butters 0]

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I just don't see the problem in protecting our country with waterboarding and other non-lethal techniques.

So you don't see the problem with torturing someone to protect a country that is based on protecting humans rights ...

"That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch

[jakee 1,441]

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I know quite well what has been said on the forum

Well, you say that, however:

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I don't give a damn about our image in the world.

That is only a tiny part of the criticism of torture that has been advanced here, and not a part that is relevant to what you said in your first post.


Also nice to see you ignore the bit of my post where I destroy your ridiculous, contrived 'contradiction'. No come back to that, eh? Thought not.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[SkyDekker 1,405]

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So what is wrong with waterbarding Khalid Sheikh Mohammed or other terrorists if it saves lives?

What's wrong with torturing a confession out of a suspected killer if it saves lives?

[Niki1 1]

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My question is this: Why is the anti-enhanced interrogation technique crowd not up in arms over the shooting over the three Somaili pirates.

You can't possibly believe that no good information was obtained from these interrogations that prevented attacks and saved lives.


You can't possibly believe that these 2 situations are in any way related. But since I DO believe that NO good info was obtained in this way, I guess you can believe what you want. That's one of the many good things about our country.

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[AWL71 0]

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My question is this: Why is the anti-enhanced interrogation technique crowd not up in arms over the shooting over the three Somaili pirates.

My question is this: Why should we be?

Because those dead pirates should have had their rights protected? We value human life, yes? The captain was safe and in plain sight. Why not just wait it out and come to a peaceful resolution?

You can't have it both ways.

Regardless of the discussions of the morality and effectiveness of torture, do you even comprehend the difference between what happens in captivity vs what happens in action?

I understand it very well. But the value of human life and people's rights trump that, yes?

Tell you what, this will probably confuse the fuck out of you, I think it's fine that they killed those pirates, however if they had sucesfully captured them and then shot them in the head, I'd be up in arms about that.

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So what is wrong with waterbarding Khalid Sheikh Mohammed or other terrorists if it saves lives? You can't possibly believe that no good information was obtained from these interrogations that prevented attacks and saved lives

Have you actually ignored everything that has been said on this subject, on this forum, up until now?

The most terrifying words in the English language are: I'm from the government and I'm here to help.

[billvon 2,894]

>What's wrong with torturing a confession out of a suspected killer if it
>saves lives?

Same thing that's wrong with imprisoning someone forever because of their political connections. The US Constitution (at least for those in the US.)

[TrophyHusband 0]

i've yet to read or hear of any of the "enhanced interrogation techniques" that even amout to torture. (if some are torture, feel free to point them out) most of the things on that list are things our own soldiers are put through in the course of training. some of the things on the list are laughable, such as stress positions. i spent plenty of time in stress positions in boot camp. it sucked, but even when being put through it, i didn't feel i was being tortured.

it seems now that anything that makes a person uncomfortable is considered torture, so in the contest of "torture" verses shooting them in the head, i say shoot them in the head.

"Your scrotum is quite nice" - Skymama
www.kjandmegan.com