kbordson 8 #101 March 24, 2009 In my opinion, they were still strong armed into that decision. "Give it back, or we'll take it back... ok... or we'll tax it back.... ok... or we'll turn everyone against you." Congress signed the bailout. Here's an idea: READ THE CONTRACTS BEFORE YOU SIGN THEM. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #102 March 24, 2009 QuoteA bit of good news: ============== 15 of 20 top AIG bonus recipients return cash New York Attorney General Andrew Cuomo says that about $50 million in bonus cash has been returned so far. Anyone else fear that 6 months from now some whistle blower will tell us that the bonus returners did so for a more secret payment? It's not like the Feds weren't fully aware of this first round - it was only when the public heard that the staged outrage came. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,395 #103 March 24, 2009 >Bullsh*t. There is no nonsense. You don't think spending man-years arguing over executive compensation in the midst of a recession is bullshit? You must take this stuff VERY seriously! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
crwtom 0 #104 March 24, 2009 QuoteQuoteQuote www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/03/14/AR2009031401394.html Bonuses? Hanging would be more appropriate. filling loopholes, public pressure and shame, perhaps taxation, nationalization, and even hanging or crucification may be justified. What is absolutely not justified is that this has become a more than week long full-time occupation of every media pundit, elected official, and joe blow wannabe in the country. Cheers, T That's a bit like saying we shouldn't expend any effort to catch a murderer, because there are 299,999,999 people left. obviously not -- read more closely what the point was. And if you insist that murder is a good analogy for accepting bonuses ... indeed watching the extend of the bonus debate is a bit like watching all 139 episodes of Nancy Grace on the Anthony murder case back to back. Of course it's a matter for local law enforcement but not for endless public obsession -- unless you're really into that kind of thing. Cheers, T ******************************************************************* Fear causes hesitation, and hesitation will cause your worst fears to come true Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gawain 0 #105 March 24, 2009 Quote>Bullsh*t. There is no nonsense. You don't think spending man-years arguing over executive compensation in the midst of a recession is bullshit? You must take this stuff VERY seriously! I construed your post as "let this be a lesson to avoid this nonsense: i.e. companies issuing bonuses" not "let this be a lesson to Congress..." in the same vein...yada yada.... Either way, yes, we should be taking this seriously, especially if the end results in targeted, retro-active legislation -- punitive action by Congress on a specific group of people.So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright 'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life Make light! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andrewwhyte 1 #106 March 24, 2009 Quote I construed your post as "let this be a lesson to avoid this nonsense: i.e. companies issuing bonuses" not "let this be a lesson to Congress..." in the same vein...yada yada.... Either way, yes, we should be taking this seriously, especially if the end results in targeted, retro-active legislation -- punitive action by Congress on a specific group of people. I couldn't agree more. It is a very slippery slope. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,395 #107 March 24, 2009 >In my opinion, they were still strong armed into that decision. Of course they were. Which is a better outcome than passing a new round of taxes/bizarre anti-bonus laws. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kbordson 8 #108 March 24, 2009 Quote>In my opinion, they were still strong armed into that decision. Of course they were. Which is a better outcome than passing a new round of taxes/bizarre anti-bonus laws. Better here is a very relative term. It might be "better".... but it's NOT GOOD. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,395 #109 March 24, 2009 >Better here is a very relative term. That's why I said "a BIT of good news." Getting executives to give back bonuses that we paid for is a good thing, and the better thing is that this whole episode will be a cautionary tale to any other executives considering million dollar bonuses paid for by tax-funded bailouts. (Without requiring any byzantine legal maneuverings.) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shropshire 0 #110 March 24, 2009 You can only shame people that actually have a conscience!! (.)Y(.) Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Pendejo 0 #111 March 24, 2009 According to Reuters today, our government is now entertaining giving themselves the power to take over non-bank institutions. I am amazed at how this is being sold to the public. It really makes me wonder sometimes just how stupid they feel we are. Its almost insulting when you step back and look at it. Maybe I am not seeing it right and thats why I feel this way, but here is what I see as having happened so far. 1. AIG gets itself into financial trouble through its London based financial products division. This is a quote from the story are Reuters from a statement made by Timothy Geithner. “This division was an unregulated entity operating in unregulated markets.” To me, this is an interesting comment. Given that other politicians have come forward and said that they recognized the issues and had no way of fixing those issues, I have to ask this... Who exactly makes the policies that give them that power if the government themselves don’t? 2. The Federal Government makes the decision to bail out AIG. This can (and has) be argued to death both ways for or against. At this point its somewhat late to debate it I guess as we have already done it. Good, bad or indifferent, its done. 3. The Federal Government votes to allow the bonuses they are so enraged about. Like it or not, they did. 4. The Federal Government voices outrage at the bonuses paid out at AIG (you know, the ones they voted to allow). Various people within our government initially claim to have no knowledge of the change that allowed the bonuses to be paid, only to later come clean and admit that they knew. 5. Today U.S. Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner and Federal Reserve Chairman Ben Bernanke tell congress that they need greater power to take control of non-bank financial institutions. So let me get this straight. These people knew there was an issue with the market AIG was in and did nothing to regulate it. They made the decision to bail out the company with our money with little to no oversite of how the money was spent. They feign outrage at the bonuses they approved (or even worse, didn’t take the time to look at what they were signing). And now, these same people want additional power to take over any business that is considered “systemically important” at will. Side question about that last statement. Has anyone seen what the government considers to be a definition of “systemically important?” I know that really smart people like Marg can tell us the text book explanation, but I am curious what the government considers a definition. Am I nuts? Or just not looking at it from the right perspective... Personally, I am not a conspiracy theorist, but one does have to wonder if all the dog and pony show that has been going on was not just to set the public up to accept something like this. I do find it interesting that even some of the Democrats are being cautious about what they are willing to say about the Geithner plan. Pendejo He who swoops the ditch and does not get out buys the BEER!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kbordson 8 #112 March 25, 2009 Quote Am I nuts? Or just not looking at it from the right perspective... Personally, I am not a conspiracy theorist, but one does have to wonder if all the dog and pony show that has been going on was not just to set the public up to accept something like this. I do find it interesting that even some of the Democrats are being cautious about what they are willing to say about the Geithner plan. I don't think you're misreading it. I've been concerned about how this government is changing for a while now.... not the democrats... not the republicans.... but all of them. The loss of personal freedoms under the cry of "Homeland Security." The theft of personal property with this AIG bonus issue. The "relief" of personal responsibility with the whole "the government will take care of you" mantra. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gawain 0 #113 March 25, 2009 Quote Quote Am I nuts? Or just not looking at it from the right perspective... Personally, I am not a conspiracy theorist, but one does have to wonder if all the dog and pony show that has been going on was not just to set the public up to accept something like this. I do find it interesting that even some of the Democrats are being cautious about what they are willing to say about the Geithner plan. I don't think you're misreading it. I've been concerned about how this government is changing for a while now.... not the democrats... not the republicans.... but all of them. The loss of personal freedoms under the cry of "Homeland Security." The theft of personal property with this AIG bonus issue. The "relief" of personal responsibility with the whole "the government will take care of you" mantra. Quoted for truth, and to add: The "theft" of personal property was erroneously resolved with the Kilo case in Connecticut and the Supreme Court I'm afraid. The nationalization of the banks is another. Geithner's testimony today was another indicator. So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright 'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life Make light! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jerryzflies 0 #114 March 25, 2009 QuoteQuoteIt's a drop in the bucket, but hopefully it will serve as a good example and help avoid this nonsense in the future. Bullsh*t. There is no nonsense. Congress, Geithner, Presidents Bush and Obama all knew the score when they starting bailing AIG out. . The AIG bailout started under Bush/Paulson. Not that facts should bother anyone on a good rant.If you can't fix it with a hammer, the problem's electrical. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gawain 0 #115 March 25, 2009 QuoteQuoteQuoteIt's a drop in the bucket, but hopefully it will serve as a good example and help avoid this nonsense in the future. Bullsh*t. There is no nonsense. Congress, Geithner, Presidents Bush and Obama all knew the score when they starting bailing AIG out. . The AIG bailout started under Bush/Paulson. Not that facts should bother anyone on a good rant. Yeah, like I kind of said that...I forgot to note Paulson though...So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright 'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life Make light! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
