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are people entitled to health care?

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i dont care who pays for it. not me. selfish I know. but I do not think that we should pay to stay healthy and to be mended if needed. Plus I refuse to pay taxes. When it's always cash coming in and a lot of it, i keep it to myself and it's none of the nosey governments. Stay off the grid and they cant touch you. I dont have the bill from tricare, all I know is that they payed 100% of it so it was good.
I'm completely in favor of the separation of Church and State. My idea is that these two institutions screw us up enough on their own, so both of them together is certain death.

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Our life expectancy is nowhere near the top, and our infant mortality rate sucks.



these statements are absolutely irrelevant.

our life expectancy here isn't near the top because we are fat, lazy, and we eat like crap. you could have the best medical care possibly provided for free and it still wouldn't help our fat junk-food-eating asses to live longer.

we count our infant mortality differently than other countries, so you can't compare ours to theirs. its been explained to me, but i would be doing you an injustice by explaining it myself, maybe karen will jump in and give some specifics on this one. basically, you can't compare data if the criteria for collecting the data is different among different samples.


"Your scrotum is quite nice" - Skymama
www.kjandmegan.com

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no argument from me - what good is it if the average person cannot afford it?



I know plenty of 'average' people who can afford health insurance.

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Why are we spending hundreds of billions in other countries while people go bankrupt in our own country just because they fell down the stairs?



I disagree with this. Most hospitals will take payments on any amount and cannot deny care.

I agree with you on the part about giving money to other countries. There are p-l-e-n-t-y I mean thousands of charities worldwide. No need to take my tax $

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I disagree with this. Most hospitals will take payments on any amount and cannot deny care.

thats why you dont get medical insurance and pay them $1 month forever. you're good then. or give them the wrong info. (i wouldn't do that)
I'm completely in favor of the separation of Church and State. My idea is that these two institutions screw us up enough on their own, so both of them together is certain death.

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no argument from me - what good is it if the average person cannot afford it?

What kind of society are we if we do not care enough to take care of our own people?

Why are we spending hundreds of billions in other countries while people go bankrupt in our own country just because they fell down the stairs?

etc
etc



tk, i normally disagree with what you say, but we have some common ground here.

i think the average person should be able to afford insurance, but rather than provide for us, i think the government's role is to set guideline that the private sector must abide by in order to make it affordable.

we do need to take care of our own people, but only those that truly can't take care of themselves.

i'm with you on the money we spend on other countries. we really should take care of our own first. it kind of like giving food to my neighbor's kids while my kids starve.


"Your scrotum is quite nice" - Skymama
www.kjandmegan.com

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So I am living proof that the universal healthcare is a better value.



Good for you. I simply believe that I'm not entitled to healthcare or anything for that matter. Would I take advantage of it? Maybe. I would also want the option of keeping my private insurance because I trust my doctor over the government.

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i dont care who pays for it. not me. selfish I know. but I do not think that we should pay to stay healthy and to be mended if needed. Plus I refuse to pay taxes. When it's always cash coming in and a lot of it, i keep it to myself and it's none of the nosey governments. Stay off the grid and they cant touch you. I dont have the bill from tricare, all I know is that they payed 100% of it so it was good.



then you are either a troll or a tax cheat. and someone is paying for your healthcare, either one of your parents or your wife, and if it's you're wife then you are paying for it.

who exactly do you think should pay for everyone's heathcare?


"Your scrotum is quite nice" - Skymama
www.kjandmegan.com

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definitely not a troll man. just want to talk to other jumpers about whatever it is we talk about in these, at times crazy, forums.i learned to jump in hawaii and i am still jumping now. Try to do 4-6 a week,so i belong here. I dont keep my info updated or any at all for that matter so I am not bothered. And I DID pay taxes. Just not anymore. if you know about the bullshit that was pushed by greedy bankers and passed by a very easily bribed congress in the 19teens then you would know that we shouldn't be paying taxes in the first place. income taxes that is. i was in the Navy for 5 years, realized that the U.S are the real terrorists and dont agree with any of their policies.

You're missing the point dude. No one should pay for healthcare. The fact that humans are controlled by other humans and have to pay to stay alive (food, healthcare, etc.) is bullshit and it means we are living in a prison system. i broke free of that system and it feels great. for instance this internet isn't even mine. Picking it up from somewhere. If you dont want to be found you dont have to.
I'm completely in favor of the separation of Church and State. My idea is that these two institutions screw us up enough on their own, so both of them together is certain death.

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i dont care who pays for it. not me. selfish I know. but I do not think that we should pay to stay healthy and to be mended if needed. Plus I refuse to pay taxes. When it's always cash coming in and a lot of it, i keep it to myself and it's none of the nosey governments. Stay off the grid and they cant touch you. I dont have the bill from tricare, all I know is that they payed 100% of it so it was good.



I truly hope this is sarcasm.

So... you want the care. But don't want to pay for it - AT ALL. Not on a personal level nor with taxes.

Lets look at other costs of health care.

Physician expenses:
Direct - Medical School. Books/Equipment (stethoscope, speculum). Board Certification. Conferences for continuing education. ACLS. Pager/phone. Malpractice Insurance (as an OB/Gyn?!). Electronic Medical Records (in my practice that is $500/month per physician)
Indirect - Food (even ramen costs money), vehicle to get to the hospital (I drive a Hyundai), housing, clothes

Nurses expenses:
Direct - Nursing School. Books/Equipment. Certification. ACLS. (malpractice for some fields is becoming an issue)
Indirect - food, vehicle, housing, chothes

Clinic/Outpatient expenses: Office manager. Receptionist. Billing/coding. Office rental/lease, electricity/power, heat/air conditioning, water, furniture (waiting room chairs/tables, front desk supplies/computers/photocopier/fax, exam room tables) Patient gowns (laundering) Gloves. culture swabs. needles. measuring tapes. sterile / non-sterile gel.

Hospital expenses: the building itself (including architecture specific for the ER or the OR suite or Labor and Delivery or ICU or CCU or lab ....) over head paging ("code blue....") electricity/power, heat/air conditioning, water, furniture (beds for ER, for OR, for patient rooms; waiting room chairs/tables; check in/admitting supplies; nurses station supplies) medical records (paper or electronic charts, dictation) radiology (XRay, CT, MRI, ultrasound - and people capable of operating them) pharmacy (medicines, IV solutions, Pharmacists and assists) lab (vials, needles, swabs, machines, culture media and people working in that department) physical therapy, supply/ sterile supply, transport, dietary, janitorial services, linen services, grounds keeping (snow removal to even get to the door), security, parking (and probably LOTS, LOTS more)

So... you want all this but make "someone else" pay for it.

Who?

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i dont want it. all i am saying is that it's absurd that we have to pay to stay healthy at all. It's the same silent bribery with food. Work or starve, work or be prepared to have a lifetime of medical expenses. It's dumb. I do pay if i get hurt. I will pay $1/month for the rest of my life. it's still paying isn't it? I am not trying to be rebellious. I just dont agree with "the man" at all. And it was not sarcasm. I dont pay taxes anymore. It is truly freeing and you should try it if you can.
I'm completely in favor of the separation of Church and State. My idea is that these two institutions screw us up enough on their own, so both of them together is certain death.

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i was talking about the 4 bankers in 1916 (dont quote) who pushed congress to start taxing. Sarted the IRS, Fed. Res., etc.

And I mean that when it comes to staying healthy or mending yourself, a monetary system shouldn't even be of question. Humans helping other humans. Not humans ripping off humans. Shit, I am even against medicine due to over population, but I am being somewhat of a humanist here.
I'm completely in favor of the separation of Church and State. My idea is that these two institutions screw us up enough on their own, so both of them together is certain death.

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it just should. i believe in anarcho primitivism. We think the shift from hunter-gatherer to agricultural subsistence gave rise to social stratification, coercion, and alienation. I think that society is based on greed and another human would not have to pay if sick, injured, etc..
I'm completely in favor of the separation of Church and State. My idea is that these two institutions screw us up enough on their own, so both of them together is certain death.

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i dont want it. all i am saying is that it's absurd that we have to pay to stay healthy at all. It's the same silent bribery with food. Work or starve, work or be prepared to have a lifetime of medical expenses. It's dumb. I do pay if i get hurt. I will pay $1/month for the rest of my life. it's still paying isn't it? I am not trying to be rebellious. I just dont agree with "the man" at all. And it was not sarcasm. I dont pay taxes anymore. It is truly freeing and you should try it if you can.



so everyone should take that attitude?

Trust me... I'm all for desiring to "escape the system."

But the reality is that LIFE with modern conveniences and "entitlements" comes with cost. If you break your leg - a nice compound fracture. You want someone there to XRay it, set it and cast. Some pain meds would be nice. And... if it doesn't heal just like new, you want the right to sue him/her for not having a perfect outcome.

a dollar a month.... $120/decade?! How long is anyone going to support you before the system collapses?

Doctors decide that it's not worth the risk. Nurses get frustrated that they can't feed their families. Buildings go into disrepair.


For you to take that "break the system" attitude, you should be willing to completely care for yourself without imposing at ALL on others.

And... you don't have to pay to stay healthy.

Many people HAVE insurance but are NOT healthy.

It costs nothing to walk and exercise. Or to bypass McDonalds. Or meditate.

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if you know about the bullshit that was pushed by greedy bankers and passed by a very easily bribed congress in the 19teens then you would know that we shouldn't be paying taxes in the first place. income taxes that is.



You might want to take another look at the US Constitution if you really believe that BS. Pay close attention to Articles I and V, as well as the 16th amendment.

The "we shouldn't be paying taxes in the first place" argument is unsupported, and typically promoted by tin foil hat wearing Libertarians (who are only a subset of Libertarians).
Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!

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definitely not a troll man. just want to talk to other jumpers about whatever it is we talk about in these, at times crazy, forums.i learned to jump in hawaii and i am still jumping now. Try to do 4-6 a week,so i belong here. I dont keep my info updated or any at all for that matter so I am not bothered.



i'm not saying you don't belong here. people with years in the sport and thousands of posts have trolled. i've even trolled once or twice.

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And I DID pay taxes. Just not anymore. if you know about the bullshit that was pushed by greedy bankers and passed by a very easily bribed congress in the 19teens then you would know that we shouldn't be paying taxes in the first place. income taxes that is.



most of us know that, but we also know that everyone who has challenged that has lost. we also know that there are things that have to be paid for. we have to pay taxes somehow. maybe income taxes aren't the best, maybe they are. that is for another thread. the bottom line is that someone has to pay for shit.

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i was in the Navy for 5 years, realized that the U.S are the real terrorists and dont agree with any of their policies.



i was a squid for 6 years myself. i spent 3 years doing something that i thought then, and think now, was a complete waste of time, counter-narcotics. all i can say is that if i believed that the united states were the real terrorists and i didn't agree with anyof their policies, i would be trying to move to a country that better suited my belief system.

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You're missing the point dude. No one should pay for healthcare.



the math doesn't work out here. if you want to go to a building that has people in it that can fix you when you are broke, someone has to pay for it. all of the people involved, from the construction workers to the people who generate the electricity and get water to the building to the skilled people who can fix you have families to feed. someone has to pay for that, there's no getting around that.


"Your scrotum is quite nice" - Skymama
www.kjandmegan.com

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You may want to do some research. There is a growing history of people dying waiting on medical care that is rationed in socialized medicine countries such as Canada and the UK.



What ever you folks in the USA do towards improving your healthcare system, DO NOT ... I repeat ... DO NOT LOOK TO CANADA on how to run a successful public healthcare system.


Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

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are people entitled to health care?



depends which country they come from and which country they are in when they need it....

Should people be entitled to healthcare?

Fuck yes.
"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

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LOL, how much have you guys paid for bombs and shit over the past decade but you are so unwilling to pay for healthcare for your own people. Who needs protecting from who again? I am totally misinformed so don't get me wrong but where has the compassion for your own people gone. Shouldn't be sent broke reattaching a finger or requiring a leg fixed it strikes me that the people who suffer the most in your system are the people who are poor and struggling already. Way to sock it to the small guy again.

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I really do have to ask Mike.. who is your health care provider???

Are you sure you are actually going to get what you have paid for if you need to use it???



At the present, CIGNA. Before that, I've used BC/BS and ...crap, can't remember the other one.

Never had a problem with any of them, and that includes a couple of ER visits and a couple surgeries.
Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

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