Does Barack know any clergy who aren't racist?

[airdvr 197]

Obama’s Inauguration Benediction

‘Lord, in the memory of all the saints who from their labors rest, and in the joy of a new beginning, we ask you to help us work for that day when black will not be asked to get in back, when brown can stick around… when the red man can get ahead, man; and when white will embrace what is right. That all those who do justice and love mercy say Amen. Say Amen’…

Holy crap!
Did we just time warp back to 1969?

Please don't dent the planet.

Destinations by Roxanne

[Andy9o8 0]

Eh, he's a poet. Don't you know it?

[labrys 0]

Quote

Holy crap!
Did we just time warp back to 1969?

Nope.... and seems like you better duck 'cause there's a fast "point" screaming just over the top of your head.

Owned by Remi #?

[airdvr 197]

And what point would that be?

Please don't dent the planet.

Destinations by Roxanne

[Andy9o8 0]

Quote

And what point would that be?

You snooze, you lose.

[wildfan75 1]

Since Barack is just as much white as he is black, hopefully he too will embrace what is right.

[SuFantasma 0]

Quote

And what point would that be?

Please take educated questions back to the Speaker's Corner !

Y yo, pa' vivir con miedo, prefiero morir sonriendo, con el recuerdo vivo".
- Ruben Blades, "Adan Garcia"

[nerdgirl 0]

At least 2 ... I'm betting lots more but these are the easiest two:

Rev. Luis Leon
&
Dr. Rick Warren.

/Marg

Act as if everything you do matters, while laughing at yourself for thinking anything you do matters.
Tibetan Buddhist saying

[airdvr 197]

Quote

At least 2 ... I'm betting lots more but these are the easiest two:

Rev. Luis Leon
&
Dr. Rick Warren.

/Marg

OK...but were you surprised at the benediction? I thought we were moving towards something better. I don't think this was necessary and in poor taste on a day when we were celebrating a minority being sworn in a POTUS.

Please don't dent the planet.

Destinations by Roxanne

[rushmc 18]

Quote

Quote

At least 2 ... I'm betting lots more but these are the easiest two:

Rev. Luis Leon
&
Dr. Rick Warren.

/Marg

OK...but were you surprised at the benediction? I thought we were moving towards something better. I don't think this was necessary and in poor taste on a day when we were celebrating a minority being sworn in a POTUS.

One thing we that did not vote for Obama need to remember. He is media created. Therefor, to keep him bigger than life he will get a pass on almost anytning. At least for a while.

What the media has created, the media can destroy. We need only think about this statement in the context of those the media did not like, but were unable to destroy, like Bush.

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[livendive 8]

Quote

Obama’s Inauguration Benediction

‘Lord, in the memory of all the saints who from their labors rest, and in the joy of a new beginning, we ask you to help us work for that day when black will not be asked to get in back, when brown can stick around… when the red man can get ahead, man; and when white will embrace what is right. That all those who do justice and love mercy say Amen. Say Amen’…

Holy crap!
Did we just time warp back to 1969?

Mentioning the colors black, brown, red, and white does not make a statement racist. It seems more inclusive than exclusive to me.

Blues,
Dave

"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)

[airdvr 197]

Quote

Mentioning the colors black, brown, red, and white does not make a statement racist. It seems more inclusive than exclusive to me.

Blues,
Dave

I'll submit its more than a 'mention'.

'work for that day when ' meaning it hasn't happened yet...

black will not be asked to get in back?

Aren't we past this? Didn't Rosa Parks make her statement about this some 50 years ago?

when brown can stick around

Who is the brown man? Latinos? Who says the Brown man can't stick around?

when yellow is mellow?

Asians must not be mellow. Not mellow towards whom?

when the red man can get ahead, man

Who's keeping the Red Man down?

and when white will embrace what is right.

White peole don't embrace rightness? Who elected Obama? The 10% of the population that's black?

It's extremely racist, the only thing inclusive about it was mentioning every race in a derogatory fashion, and had no place on a day when Obama was benefitting from the sacrifices of the people who went before him.

Please don't dent the planet.

Destinations by Roxanne

[Amazon 7]

I'll submit its more than a 'mention'.

'work for that day when ' meaning it hasn't happened yet...

black will not be asked to get in back?

Aren't we past this? Didn't Rosa Parks make her statement about this some 50 years ago?

I guess you have not been around an area where driving while black, brown or red can be deadly

when brown can stick around

Who is the brown man? Latinos? Who says the Brown man can't stick around?
Seems to be a LOT of people who don’t want Latino’s to stick around, even the ones who come from families who have been "here" for centuries

when yellow is mellow?

Asians must not be mellow. Not mellow towards whom?
It seems around Washington State there are plenty of good ole boys thinking there are way to many here and they should go home... how about areas where a LOT of the boat people moved to in the south,, with the racial tension caused by those who were already there

when the red man can get ahead, man

Who's keeping the Red Man down?

Ever seen what a reservation in most of the country looks like.. the poverty.. the hopelessness.. no I am sure you only see the casinos on some of the reservations near population centers

and when white will embrace what is right.

White people don't embrace rightness? Who elected Obama? The 10% of the population that's black?

It's extremely racist, the only thing inclusive about it was mentioning every race in a derogatory fashion, and had no place on a day when Obama was benefitting from the sacrifices of the people who went before him.

It sounded more like a prayer to finally put that behind us, where all Americans feel they are part of this great country and have a stake in its future

[chuckakers 370]

Quote

Quote

Obama’s Inauguration Benediction

‘Lord, in the memory of all the saints who from their labors rest, and in the joy of a new beginning, we ask you to help us work for that day when black will not be asked to get in back, when brown can stick around… when the red man can get ahead, man; and when white will embrace what is right. That all those who do justice and love mercy say Amen. Say Amen’…

Holy crap!
Did we just time warp back to 1969?

Mentioning the colors black, brown, red, and white does not make a statement racist. It seems more inclusive than exclusive to me.

Blues,
Dave

He clearly was not being inclusive toward whites....unless of course you consider someone telling your entire race you are wrong inclusive. By saying we should "work for that day.....when white will embrace what's right" is the same as saying that whites do not embrace what's right today.

And that, my overly one-sided friend, is racism. Racism displayed by a minority is still racism.

Chuck Akers
D-10855
Houston, TX

[Andy9o8 0]

Both the Invocation and the Benediction had one thing in common: they were obnoxious, and were torture to sit through. Beyond that, I really don't give a shit.

[DanG 1]

Word.

- Dan G

[nerdgirl 0]

Quote

OK...but were you surprised at the benediction? I thought we were moving towards something better.

Speaking to *my* initial reaction, because that’s what you asked: no, I wasn’t surprised. It sounded like an invocation of a 1950s Civil Rights era gospel-inspired rhyming chant and that the point was that over the last 40 years that had happened – we had moved to (not just toward) something better. In particular that the election of Barack Obama was a singular evidence of success. That election of a black man was evidence of embracing what is right. It didn’t sound accusatory or prescriptive to me. I heard recognition that discrimination isn’t just a white/black phenomenon. I didn’t think Rev Joseph Lowery explicitly meant Asians should take mood-altering substances: “get mellow.” That part isn’t in the 75 (slightly edited & excerpted) words of the benediction that is being circulated around the blog-o-sphere.

Transcript of Rev Lowery’s 600 word+ benediction is available at Christianity Today. It turns out that those 75 words + the ones excised from what’s spreading around the blog-o-sphere are taken from an old blues song from the 1950s (or earlier ?) that had been part of the early civil rights era traditional Protestant recitations/invocations:

Lord, in the memory of all the saints who from their labors rest, and in the joy of a new beginning, we ask you to help us work for that day when black will not be asked to get back, when brown can stick around -- (laughter) -- when yellow will be mellow -- (laughter) -- when the red man can get ahead, man -- (laughter) -- and when white will embrace what is right. Let all those who do justice and love mercy say amen.

I heard it as an acknowledgement of how far America has come – not unlike the way old skydivers talk about the way it was way back when to remind newer skydivers to appreciate ram-air canopies and turbine aircraft -- and showing how far much of the country has come in righting past injustices. Rev Lowery’s words acknowledge the history of where we’ve been -- the facts of who we are and our history -- and the prospect of what we have left to do. The alternative is revisionist history to re-write our nation’s history or to pretend that discrimination against minorities does not persist. And he did it a non-strident, jovial way to convey the need for eternal vigilance. That’s the message I heard.


The selection of Dr. Rick Warren was more problematic (but not unwarranted) from my perspective. And the lack of objection to that as point of discussion here may be further indication of the predominant right-wing leaning of this forum, imo. Or maybe it just means the liberals are more inclusive ... who knows? The inclusion of a right-wing religious figure and a civil rights era religious figure is characteristic of the bipartisan nature that President Obama has demonstrated over the years. To me, that’s more important than disagreeing with Rev Warren’s homophobic and sexist positions.

Quote

I don't think this was necessary and in poor taste on a day when we were celebrating a minority being sworn in a POTUS.

Now since the world doesn’t revolve around me … and responding in the spirit that you truly did find Rev Lowery’s comments offensive (rather than it just being a partisan dig [?]), I try to step back and instead view the benediction from a perspective of one who is/was offended by his words. If one only read that 75-word excerpt out of context or from a different context than I did, yes, I can see how someone might find that to be offensive.

How is the ability to recognize that someone else might find offensive something that another person does or says usually characterized here? It’s usually derided as “political correctness” or excused as a joke. E.g., spousal abuse – that’s a “joke.” Negative depictions of “retarded” people – some rationalize those as funny. Misogynistic statements – unchallenged.

Do I think or see any objective evidence that there was racist intention in Rev Lowery’s benediction? No.

I would suggest it as potentially indicative of the phenomenon of frontal lobe shrinkage (atrophy) with age. The frontal lobes inhibit socially inappropriate speech and behavior. There’s may be a neurological reason why ‘Great Aunt Edna’ went on-&-on-&-on about her peonies … or Great Grandpa’s quirky outbursts at the dinner table. Popular report. Primary data. That doesn’t excuse inappropriate behavior in the elderly, but it does provide a neurobiological causation for a 87-yo not thinking through his words.

Do I wish (now) that he might have added some statement or short line to convey what I wrote above or changed that line … because I’m functioning under the assumption that some people honestly were offended? Yes, because words do matter.

Do I think he should be censored? No.

Do I hope that some folks might increase their empathy and recognition that words do matter? Yes. Am I going to hold my breath waiting for that to happen? No.

VR/Marg

Act as if everything you do matters, while laughing at yourself for thinking anything you do matters.
Tibetan Buddhist saying

[airdvr 197]

Wow Marg. I think you should work for a politician. You give excellent spin.

Please don't dent the planet.

Destinations by Roxanne

[nerdgirl 0]

Quote

Wow Marg. I think you should work for a politician. You give excellent spin.

"Spin" ... wow ... sad.

You ask a question. I respond honestly. You don't like the response you get so, it's "spin." That's the problem - I don't do spin.

How do defend selectively editing 75 words and circulating them around internet? Is that 'angular momentum'?

Looks like it didn't take long for you to fulfill my closing words: "Do I hope that some folks might increase their empathy and recognition that words do matter? Yes. Am I going to hold my breath waiting for that to happen? No."

/Marg

Act as if everything you do matters, while laughing at yourself for thinking anything you do matters.
Tibetan Buddhist saying

[airdvr 197]

Not suggesting censorship. I'd much rather have people spewing stupid shit...at least I know where they're coming from.

And I don't see it as 'selective editing'. There was nothing before or after those words to suggest that he wasn't sincere about feeling the way he does.

Please don't dent the planet.

Destinations by Roxanne

[nerdgirl 0]

Quote

And I don't see it as 'selective editing'. There was nothing before or after those words to suggest that he wasn't sincere about feeling the way he does.

For clarification: what do you think is the way he feels?

And on what basis do you know that? What in Rev Lowery's history suggests that? Other than the 75-word selective edit circulating the blog-o-sphere with partisan incendiary commentary, what do you knwo about him? (And feel free to prove me wrong by telling me about your involvement in the Montgomery bus boycott or Selma to Montgomery march - I'll believe you ... because underestimating the history and behaviors of folks here is a dangerous activity.)

As I wrote, I acknowledge that if "I try to step back and instead view the benediction from a perspective of one who is/was offended by his words. If one only read that 75-word excerpt out of context or from a different context than I did, yes, I can see how someone might find that to be offensive."


Removing words like (laughter) and whole phrases is not selective editing? And circulating that without the rest is not selective?

Illustrative comparison, imagine removing "the right of the people to keep and bear Arms" from 2nd Amendment, is that selective editing? (Yes, it is too.)

But let's go back to your earlier tactic: what in my response was "spin"? Rather than just tossing out a 1-liner, where is the argument invalid?

Show me where there are holes in my argument. I get to learn then.

Marg

Act as if everything you do matters, while laughing at yourself for thinking anything you do matters.
Tibetan Buddhist saying

[airdvr 197]

It sounded like an invocation of a 1950s Civil Rights era gospel-inspired rhyming chant and that the point was that over the last 40 years that had happened – we had moved to (not just toward) something better.

OK...let's look at the 'words' just prior.

With your hands of power and your heart of love, help us then, now, Lord, to work for that day when nations shall not lift up sword against nation, when tanks will be beaten into tractors, when every man and every woman shall sit under his or her own vine and fig tree and none shall be afraid, when justice will roll down like waters and righteousness as a mighty stream.

He's talking in the present, no? And then rolls right into

Lord, in the memory of all the saints who from their labors rest, and in the joy of a new beginning, we ask you to help us work for that day

I didn’t think Rev Joseph Lowery explicitly meant Asians should take mood-altering substances: “get mellow.”

I think he meant that the yellow man shouldn't be pissed off at the black man.

I heard it as an acknowledgement of how far America has come .

Good. That's not what I and many others heard.

Do I think or see any objective evidence that there was racist intention in Rev Lowery’s benediction? No.

That's what I love about this country. We can agree to disagree.

Please don't dent the planet.

Destinations by Roxanne

[TVWriter 0]

I kinda agree with airdive.

But, in terms of your thinking that most people agree with you, it could be because you, like most people, tend to have friends who think in common.

And if you voiced your negative views of the talk by the reverent at work, people like myself just would not say anything for fear of getting into a conversation that might jeopardize his or her employment.

That being said, I think, perhaps you should realize that the rev was not used to speaking to such a wide audience. The limited audience he was used to speaking to may agree with him. And by limited, I do not mean all black people, but simply people in his congregation.

President Obama has made it clear in his actions that he represents all Americans. Most of the people who visit President Obama speak to certain constituencies.

Despite efforts by the media to make the public believe that this rev, Rev Sharpton, Rev. Jackson, Beyonce, Tiger or anyone speaks for all Black Americans any more than Lieberman speaks for all Caucasian Americans.

There's nothing wrong with listening or commenting, as you have, as long as you don't take the words of one African American minister to represent the thoughts and belief of our President.

Have a happy.

[TVWriter 0]

OOps, meant to say nerdgirl in terms of who I agreed with in the previous post's introduction.

[kallend 1,623]

Quote

OOps, meant to say nerdgirl in terms of who I agreed with in the previous post's introduction.

That's because Marg is ALWAYS right.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.