billvon 2,400 #126 January 14, 2009 > David Berkowitz acted on his false beliefs and committed horrible crimes. > He is now in jail for life. Correct. His claim that he really, honestly believed that a demon was talking to him means nothing. What IS important is what he did with his life - and he did some very bad things. >My bet is that FallingOsh is leading a very productive, fulfilled, complete life. . . I agree! Again, his claim that his prayers are answered doesn't mean anything objective. What IS important is what he does with his life - and I have no doubt that he will do good things with it. Had he prayed to Vishnu, or to the Earth Mother spirit, I am sure he would have done equally good things. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
yourmomma 0 #127 January 14, 2009 It is surreal that in this day and age some folks still hold dear the idea that science is equitable to faith or magic or that science is conducted as a means to diminish religion or answer the questions of why. This disconnect with the reality of what science is proves that indoctrination is far stronger than any fact can be. Mathematical equations don't exist to answer questions of "why", nor do the theories in biology, geology, anthropology etc (even when not purely mathematically based). The idea that end results of (most) equations have anything to do with faith is quite frankly the realm of the ignorant. The same can be said for any of the physical sciences. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FallingOsh 0 #128 January 14, 2009 Quote Says you, apparently. Still waiting on something more definitive. .16 seconds on Google. This was the first return. U.S. Center for World Mission estimated in 1997 that the percentage of humans who regard themselves as Christians rose from 33.7% in 1970 to 33.9% in 1996. 2 Its total number of adherents is growing at about 2.3% annually. This is approximately equal to the growth rate of the world's population. Islam is growing faster: about 2.9% and is thus increasing its market share. Quote Suggest religion is getting increasingly unimportant to society. Just a matter of time before the openly non religion people start coming along. In the old days, they'd have to go to church and fake faith. By unimportant you mean other's beliefs are tolerated more or a person's faith isn't as big of a player in elected officials. (I would also argue that point seeing as how much religion and faith-based values were discussed in the Presidential election.) That doesn't mean religion itself is actually less important to the population. It definitely doesn't mean there are less religious people in the country today. -------------------------------------------------- Stay positive and love your life. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FallingOsh 0 #129 January 14, 2009 Quote We have created a system to evaluate the validity of a theory. It's called science, and involves creation of a hypothesis followed by various tests of that hypothesis. If the theory withstands those tests, it is considered valid. If it fails those tests, it is considered invalid. It is the best method we have to determine how the universe really works. That's an incredibly simplistic way of describing current theories. Again going back to SR and quantum mechanics, they pass tests individually but fail together. Which one is valid? Which one is invalid? It's a big ass complicated house of cards that is now moving into multiple dimensions to try and explain it. Maybe we will, maybe we won't. My point remains that science changes on a daily basis and it's cool to read about. Believing the truth of the day doesn't make it right or valid. And that brings me back to the same point that both of us seem to agree upon. The existence of science does not mean there is no God. Science is indeed a way for us to try and explain our world. The more we dig, the more we realize we don't know. Those who claim to only believe in verifiable scientific data, imo, ignore the ever changing ideas and contradictory theories. I don't think science is evil or a way to slowly rid the world of religion. I enjoy the sciences and reading theories. I just don't believe it really explains our existence or how things truly work in the universe. -------------------------------------------------- Stay positive and love your life. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,400 #130 January 14, 2009 > Believing the truth of the day doesn't make it right or valid. I agree! What's cool about science is that there IS an underlying truth that we may discover if we work at it. It doesn't change, and is not dependent on people's beliefs. "Believing" it or not will not change its validity. Religion, of course, is 100% belief; there is no underlying unchanging reality on which religion is based. Which is also fine. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FallingOsh 0 #131 January 14, 2009 Quote> Believing the truth of the day doesn't make it right or valid. I agree! What's cool about science is that there IS an underlying truth that we may discover if we work at it. It doesn't change, and is not dependent on people's beliefs. "Believing" it or not will not change its validity. Religion, of course, is 100% belief; there is no underlying unchanging reality on which religion is based. Which is also fine. The underlying reality of science is that it changes constantly. Believing the newest theory is the correct explanation is up to you. The underlying reality of Christianity is that Jesus did exist. Believing he was who he said he was is up to you. (The usual caveat: the existence of one does not disprove the other) -------------------------------------------------- Stay positive and love your life. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,400 #132 January 14, 2009 >The underlying reality of science is that it changes constantly. Nope. Gravity will not stop tomorrow because now you believe in antigravity. You may explain it differently, but all the belief in the world will not change how the universe works. >The underlying reality of Christianity is that Jesus did exist. It's also an underlying reality of Islam, and of many other religions. But was Jesus a god? Or was he one third of a trinity that makes up god? Is the Pope his representative on earth? Was he truly divine, or was he a prophet? Is the host actually his body, or is it a symbol of it? On those things you'll get lively arguments from Christians around the world. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JackC 0 #133 January 14, 2009 QuoteThe punishment comes from not believing. If you choose not to believe then that's your right as a free-willed person. What on earth makes you think it's a choice? One cannot simply choose to believe that which is unbelieveable. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
deibido 0 #134 January 14, 2009 Quote What is true today wasn't true years ago and won't be true a few years from now. . . . I call my belief in creationism the truth. Quote And there is the rub of it. One of these is allowed to change based on observation. Is the religious debate, at its heart, fundamentally fueled by a fear of change?"User assumes all risk" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites deibido 0 #135 January 14, 2009 Quote David Berkowitz believed that his neighbor's dog was possessed by a demon, and that the demon communicated with him. . . He followed those instructions and killed six people. Quote And today he is a man of God."User assumes all risk" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites frequentfaller 0 #136 January 14, 2009 QuoteQuote True, people tend to believe what their parents believed. If everyone slowly becomes atheist then who is teaching our kids? I didnt say everyone becomes atheist. just explaining how people evolve away from religion. Quote Not quite that easy. The issues of SR and quatum mechanics illustrate that nicely. thats whats great about science. when more is learned, science is alowed to change. not.....the bible says this! the end! Quote Says who? I think it's healthy to question, research, and understand my beliefs. you'll be ok as long as you believe. the rest of us who say and ancient text isn't enough, are to be tortured for eternity. if i created a bunch of beings which i loved and cherished, i think i would make it easier for them to know what i want them to do. Quote What proof are you seeking? You won't be sent to hell for being too intelligent. There's no sin for being smart or researching the world around us. There's nothing that says science can't exist. The punishment comes from not believing. If you choose not to believe then that's your right as a free-willed person. any proof. even a hint, thats not faith based, or I heard a voice in my head. Quote You're equating a thirst for knowledge with not being a believer. If you want learn everything you can then go for it. I certainly try to. Again, that has nothing to with being a believer. I agree Quote What kind of proof would it take? again. anything. Quote Some people do crazy ass shit in the name of religion. The key there is that it's people. A person can shoot up a hospital and claim it was because God wanted him to. That doesn't mean it was God's will. Not all Christians hate Catholics. Not all muslims hate Jews. The fanatics carrying out murderous acts in the name of religion hate each other. more like millions of people do crazy ass shit in the name of religion. are you going to see any muslims or jews or, buddhists for that matter, in heaven? or is that what the hate between them is all about? if i kill the blasphemers god will like me better. my rule book(bible\koran\torah) is the correct one. Born ok 1st time. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites FallingOsh 0 #137 January 14, 2009 Quote Nope. Gravity will not stop tomorrow because now you believe in antigravity. You may explain it differently, but all the belief in the world will not change how the universe works. Explain gravity. Is it the gravitron across 11 dimensions? Is it created by the curviture of space-time? How does it work in quantum mechanics? No shit, gravity exists. How you explain its existence is the part we're discussing. Quote It's also an underlying reality of Islam, and of many other religions. But was Jesus a god? Or was he one third of a trinity that makes up god? Is the Pope his representative on earth? Was he truly divine, or was he a prophet? Is the host actually his body, or is it a symbol of it? On those things you'll get lively arguments from Christians around the world. That's why I said it's up to you to believe he was who he said he was. If you're asking my personal beliefs; he was God's son and made up the trinity. I'm not Catholic. I don't believe the Pope is God's representative and I don't believe in confessing my sins to anyone other than God. You're right that Christians will debate the details. All Christians believe the same base. Christ was son of God and died for our sins. -------------------------------------------------- Stay positive and love your life. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites FallingOsh 0 #138 January 14, 2009 QuoteQuoteThe punishment comes from not believing. If you choose not to believe then that's your right as a free-willed person. What on earth makes you think it's a choice? One cannot simply choose to believe that which is unbelieveable. It's a choice to believe or not. How is that confusing? We've spent the past few pages discussing how science is often just as unbelievable. -------------------------------------------------- Stay positive and love your life. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites FallingOsh 0 #139 January 14, 2009 QuoteQuote What is true today wasn't true years ago and won't be true a few years from now. . . . I call my belief in creationism the truth. Quote And there is the rub of it. One of these is allowed to change based on observation. Is the religious debate, at its heart, fundamentally fueled by a fear of change? Fear of change in what? Science hasn't done anything to prove God doesn't exist. -------------------------------------------------- Stay positive and love your life. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites FallingOsh 0 #140 January 14, 2009 Quote thats whats great about science. when more is learned, science is alowed to change. not.....the bible says this! the end! So how do you know what to believe? Quote any proof. even a hint, thats not faith based, or I heard a voice in my head. Have you asked for a hint? Would you believe it if ou saw it or just write it off as coincidence? Quotemore like millions of people do crazy ass shit in the name of religion. are you going to see any muslims or jews or, buddhists for that matter, in heaven? or is that what the hate between them is all about? if i kill the blasphemers god will like me better. my rule book(bible\koran\torah) is the correct one. Disagreement does not equal hate. What millions of people are you referring to? Millions of people do not hate or kill each other in the name of religion. Those firing rockets into Israel are relatively few compared to the number of Muslims in the world. The majority of the Iranian public does not agree with the PM's hateful words. I'm not saying it doesn't happen, but billions of people in the world are religious today. A very, very small percentage take to the extreme of killing those with whom they disagree. -------------------------------------------------- Stay positive and love your life. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites pairashooter 0 #141 January 14, 2009 That sums it up great. Chris Scaife Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites deibido 0 #142 January 14, 2009 Quote It's a choice to believe or not. How is that confusing? We've spent the past few pages discussing how science is often just as unbelievable. That's just it. It isn't a choice. I can't just choose to "believe" something that doesn't make any sense to me. If I "chose to believe" I would just be lying to myself and I would know it. Nothing in science needs to be believed. It isn't a requirement."User assumes all risk" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 2,400 #143 January 14, 2009 >Explain gravity. It's a force that attracts mass to mass and warps space-time. >Is it the gravitron across 11 dimensions? We don't know. All gravitational effect might be mediated by virtual gravitons, or by actual (but unobservable so far) gravitons. The cool thing is that what we understand about or (or don't understand about it) doesn't matter. There is an underlying truth that we will likely someday discover - and that truth will not be altered by someone being born, or a book being written, or someone nailing theses to the door of a church, or someone building a temple. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites maadmax 0 #144 January 14, 2009 That's just it. It isn't a choice. I can't just choose to "believe" something that doesn't make any sense to me. If I "chose to believe" I would just be lying to myself and I would know it. Nothing in science needs to be believed. It isn't a requirement. Christianity is more of a recognition than it is a belief in some far fetched stories. If you can grasp the separation that exists between you and God, then it is easy to understand. Christ is the way back to the relationship with God that we were created for. ... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites deibido 0 #145 January 14, 2009 Quote Christianity is more of a recognition than it is a belief in some far fetched stories. If you can grasp the separation that exists between you and God, then it is easy to understand. Christ is the way back to the relationship with God that we were created for. You see, none of that makes the slightest bit of sense to me. To me it is quite far fetched indeed. It's a nice mythology, but Egyptian symbolism is nice too, as is Sumerian. Whether it is Osiris risen or Christ risen, it is still just stories, to me. However, to me, Taoism just makes sense. I like things that make sense. They are sensible."User assumes all risk" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites frequentfaller 0 #146 January 14, 2009 Quote Christianity is more of a recognition than it is a belief in some far fetched stories. If you can grasp the separation that exists between you and God, then it is easy to understand. Christ is the way back to the relationship with God that we were created for. whats to grasp about separation? what you're tryin to cryptic speak is, if i believe in god then it is easy to understand. christ is th...bla bla bl...Born ok 1st time. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites nerdgirl 0 #147 January 14, 2009 Hmm, interesting ... I would assign the descriptors differently: Preconceived conclusion Testable Hypothesis- the world and everything in it formed from a spontaneous eruption of matter, energy, and fortuitous chance random, stochastic occurrences. Scientific theory Fact- primary, secondary, tertiary protein structures that compose the functional and electrical components of the flagella. How are the DNA sequence, the folding (B-sheeet v loop, etc), and tertiary structure (3D structure) as determined by X-ray not facts? Those are just observations. What the significance of those long chains of AGTCs is a conclusion as well as similarity between DNA sequences. Just that something has a specific sequence of AGTC seems like it can't be anything other than a fact to me, eh? Faith (Concur ... but imo, not relevant to the testable hypothesis) - a belief in things hoped for. (incorrect) Fact Conclusion, based on observed data - causal mechanisms for formation of the bacterial flagellaum (different bacteria have different flagella, they're not all the same; some are more complicated, others much simpler) are possibly formed totally independent of any preconceived plan for the universe. Quote ... and aren't prophyrin rings just the coolest things. Who would ever think they could just occur by fortunate chance interactions? I do agree w/r/t porphyrins being very cool. Beautiful colors too – I have a test-tube of free base 5,10,15,20-tetraphenylporphyrin (H2TPP) sitting on my desk mostly for pure human aesthetic reasons – they’re sparkly purple. Porphyrins are created by explainable thermodynamic interactions and chemical reactions, i.e., fortuitously by chance (if chance includes the basic thermodynamics and chemical kinetics under an oxidative environment). If you have an asphalt driveway, there are some porphyrin rings in there (very small number). Beyond being the active part of hemoglobin (as you know), the porphyrinic carbon-hydrogen-nitrogen macrocycle has been observed to form in Coal Pre-Cambrian shale rock Petroleum deposits ... and the black crud [that’s the technical term ] on the bottom of round-bottom flasks containing simple hydrocarbons and organic nitrogen chemicals that have been refluxed for long periods of time. Most of the ‘crud’ is random polymers (or polymeric species), but micrograms (or less) are porphyrins. VR/Marg Act as if everything you do matters, while laughing at yourself for thinking anything you do matters. Tibetan Buddhist saying Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Coreece 190 #148 January 14, 2009 QuoteHad he prayed to Vishnu, or to the Earth Mother spirit, I am sure he would have done equally good things. I think belief in most gods and spirits can produce many benefits in the lives of believers, especially the Earth Mother....I'd go as far as saying that she is even more generous than God in terms of getting what you want....but as we know, getting what you want and getting what you need are far from synonymous to eachother. My experience with Catholocism, Buddhism, the Earth Mother, and just plain old yoga have been extremely pleasant, (well, maybe not Catholocism) but there was still something missing. They didn't give me understanding of God's character, the world, human depravity or why the hell I had a desire to stand on my head in a twisted pretzel pose in the first place. They never explained where the desire for all this came from. Ultimately, it all just seemed like self centered vain expressions of pride eventhough it did not appear to be so, and allowed me to live a relatively peaceful, optimistic and joyful life. Overall, I generally like to use the analogy, God is to gods as Seritonin is to Psilocin to describe the difference/similarities. I choose the Creator God, the genius behind the riddles of Science and the Bible.Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites JackC 0 #149 January 14, 2009 QuoteIt's a choice to believe or not. How is that confusing? We've spent the past few pages discussing how science is often just as unbelievable. I cannot simply choose to believe something that I find unbelievable. If I tried I would just be deluding myself since at the core of it, religion just doesn't make any sense. Science can seem unbelievable for those that just have a superficial understanding of it. To get to the bottom of why science says the things it does, takes a lot of work. Sometimes it takes years of study to colate all of the knowledge you need to see how it fits together. But everything science says is based on empirical evidence. Whatever theory you pick, it has to be based on what you can observe. If the experiment says no, the theory is wrong, end of. You might say that religion also takes years to understand and maybe it does, but sooner or later you always end up at the brick wall of faith. Then you can go no further. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites frequentfaller 0 #150 January 14, 2009 Quote So how do you know what to believe? i read and try to learn from people like nerdgirl. she is actually a geek, i'm a nerd. geeks are smarter than nerds. Quote Have you asked for a hint? Would you believe it if ou saw it or just write it off as coincidence? asked god to bring my dead cat back when i was a kid. dint happen. dont believe now. ask who? Quote Disagreement does not equal hate. so you love orthodox jews or shi'a/sunni muslims..cause guess what? they fuckin hate you.(they dont like me either) why? their RELIGION Quote What millions of people are you referring to? Millions of people do not hate or kill each other in the name of religion. . they have since the beginining of religions. especially the abrahamic faiths.Born ok 1st time. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 Next Page 6 of 7 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. 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deibido 0 #135 January 14, 2009 Quote David Berkowitz believed that his neighbor's dog was possessed by a demon, and that the demon communicated with him. . . He followed those instructions and killed six people. Quote And today he is a man of God."User assumes all risk" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites frequentfaller 0 #136 January 14, 2009 QuoteQuote True, people tend to believe what their parents believed. If everyone slowly becomes atheist then who is teaching our kids? I didnt say everyone becomes atheist. just explaining how people evolve away from religion. Quote Not quite that easy. The issues of SR and quatum mechanics illustrate that nicely. thats whats great about science. when more is learned, science is alowed to change. not.....the bible says this! the end! Quote Says who? I think it's healthy to question, research, and understand my beliefs. you'll be ok as long as you believe. the rest of us who say and ancient text isn't enough, are to be tortured for eternity. if i created a bunch of beings which i loved and cherished, i think i would make it easier for them to know what i want them to do. Quote What proof are you seeking? You won't be sent to hell for being too intelligent. There's no sin for being smart or researching the world around us. There's nothing that says science can't exist. The punishment comes from not believing. If you choose not to believe then that's your right as a free-willed person. any proof. even a hint, thats not faith based, or I heard a voice in my head. Quote You're equating a thirst for knowledge with not being a believer. If you want learn everything you can then go for it. I certainly try to. Again, that has nothing to with being a believer. I agree Quote What kind of proof would it take? again. anything. Quote Some people do crazy ass shit in the name of religion. The key there is that it's people. A person can shoot up a hospital and claim it was because God wanted him to. That doesn't mean it was God's will. Not all Christians hate Catholics. Not all muslims hate Jews. The fanatics carrying out murderous acts in the name of religion hate each other. more like millions of people do crazy ass shit in the name of religion. are you going to see any muslims or jews or, buddhists for that matter, in heaven? or is that what the hate between them is all about? if i kill the blasphemers god will like me better. my rule book(bible\koran\torah) is the correct one. Born ok 1st time. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites FallingOsh 0 #137 January 14, 2009 Quote Nope. Gravity will not stop tomorrow because now you believe in antigravity. You may explain it differently, but all the belief in the world will not change how the universe works. Explain gravity. Is it the gravitron across 11 dimensions? Is it created by the curviture of space-time? How does it work in quantum mechanics? No shit, gravity exists. How you explain its existence is the part we're discussing. Quote It's also an underlying reality of Islam, and of many other religions. But was Jesus a god? Or was he one third of a trinity that makes up god? Is the Pope his representative on earth? Was he truly divine, or was he a prophet? Is the host actually his body, or is it a symbol of it? On those things you'll get lively arguments from Christians around the world. That's why I said it's up to you to believe he was who he said he was. If you're asking my personal beliefs; he was God's son and made up the trinity. I'm not Catholic. I don't believe the Pope is God's representative and I don't believe in confessing my sins to anyone other than God. You're right that Christians will debate the details. All Christians believe the same base. Christ was son of God and died for our sins. -------------------------------------------------- Stay positive and love your life. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites FallingOsh 0 #138 January 14, 2009 QuoteQuoteThe punishment comes from not believing. If you choose not to believe then that's your right as a free-willed person. What on earth makes you think it's a choice? One cannot simply choose to believe that which is unbelieveable. It's a choice to believe or not. How is that confusing? We've spent the past few pages discussing how science is often just as unbelievable. -------------------------------------------------- Stay positive and love your life. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites FallingOsh 0 #139 January 14, 2009 QuoteQuote What is true today wasn't true years ago and won't be true a few years from now. . . . I call my belief in creationism the truth. Quote And there is the rub of it. One of these is allowed to change based on observation. Is the religious debate, at its heart, fundamentally fueled by a fear of change? Fear of change in what? Science hasn't done anything to prove God doesn't exist. -------------------------------------------------- Stay positive and love your life. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites FallingOsh 0 #140 January 14, 2009 Quote thats whats great about science. when more is learned, science is alowed to change. not.....the bible says this! the end! So how do you know what to believe? Quote any proof. even a hint, thats not faith based, or I heard a voice in my head. Have you asked for a hint? Would you believe it if ou saw it or just write it off as coincidence? Quotemore like millions of people do crazy ass shit in the name of religion. are you going to see any muslims or jews or, buddhists for that matter, in heaven? or is that what the hate between them is all about? if i kill the blasphemers god will like me better. my rule book(bible\koran\torah) is the correct one. Disagreement does not equal hate. What millions of people are you referring to? Millions of people do not hate or kill each other in the name of religion. Those firing rockets into Israel are relatively few compared to the number of Muslims in the world. The majority of the Iranian public does not agree with the PM's hateful words. I'm not saying it doesn't happen, but billions of people in the world are religious today. A very, very small percentage take to the extreme of killing those with whom they disagree. -------------------------------------------------- Stay positive and love your life. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites pairashooter 0 #141 January 14, 2009 That sums it up great. Chris Scaife Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites deibido 0 #142 January 14, 2009 Quote It's a choice to believe or not. How is that confusing? We've spent the past few pages discussing how science is often just as unbelievable. That's just it. It isn't a choice. I can't just choose to "believe" something that doesn't make any sense to me. If I "chose to believe" I would just be lying to myself and I would know it. Nothing in science needs to be believed. It isn't a requirement."User assumes all risk" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 2,400 #143 January 14, 2009 >Explain gravity. It's a force that attracts mass to mass and warps space-time. >Is it the gravitron across 11 dimensions? We don't know. All gravitational effect might be mediated by virtual gravitons, or by actual (but unobservable so far) gravitons. The cool thing is that what we understand about or (or don't understand about it) doesn't matter. There is an underlying truth that we will likely someday discover - and that truth will not be altered by someone being born, or a book being written, or someone nailing theses to the door of a church, or someone building a temple. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites maadmax 0 #144 January 14, 2009 That's just it. It isn't a choice. I can't just choose to "believe" something that doesn't make any sense to me. If I "chose to believe" I would just be lying to myself and I would know it. Nothing in science needs to be believed. It isn't a requirement. Christianity is more of a recognition than it is a belief in some far fetched stories. If you can grasp the separation that exists between you and God, then it is easy to understand. Christ is the way back to the relationship with God that we were created for. ... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites deibido 0 #145 January 14, 2009 Quote Christianity is more of a recognition than it is a belief in some far fetched stories. If you can grasp the separation that exists between you and God, then it is easy to understand. Christ is the way back to the relationship with God that we were created for. You see, none of that makes the slightest bit of sense to me. To me it is quite far fetched indeed. It's a nice mythology, but Egyptian symbolism is nice too, as is Sumerian. Whether it is Osiris risen or Christ risen, it is still just stories, to me. However, to me, Taoism just makes sense. I like things that make sense. They are sensible."User assumes all risk" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites frequentfaller 0 #146 January 14, 2009 Quote Christianity is more of a recognition than it is a belief in some far fetched stories. If you can grasp the separation that exists between you and God, then it is easy to understand. Christ is the way back to the relationship with God that we were created for. whats to grasp about separation? what you're tryin to cryptic speak is, if i believe in god then it is easy to understand. christ is th...bla bla bl...Born ok 1st time. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites nerdgirl 0 #147 January 14, 2009 Hmm, interesting ... I would assign the descriptors differently: Preconceived conclusion Testable Hypothesis- the world and everything in it formed from a spontaneous eruption of matter, energy, and fortuitous chance random, stochastic occurrences. Scientific theory Fact- primary, secondary, tertiary protein structures that compose the functional and electrical components of the flagella. How are the DNA sequence, the folding (B-sheeet v loop, etc), and tertiary structure (3D structure) as determined by X-ray not facts? Those are just observations. What the significance of those long chains of AGTCs is a conclusion as well as similarity between DNA sequences. Just that something has a specific sequence of AGTC seems like it can't be anything other than a fact to me, eh? Faith (Concur ... but imo, not relevant to the testable hypothesis) - a belief in things hoped for. (incorrect) Fact Conclusion, based on observed data - causal mechanisms for formation of the bacterial flagellaum (different bacteria have different flagella, they're not all the same; some are more complicated, others much simpler) are possibly formed totally independent of any preconceived plan for the universe. Quote ... and aren't prophyrin rings just the coolest things. Who would ever think they could just occur by fortunate chance interactions? I do agree w/r/t porphyrins being very cool. Beautiful colors too – I have a test-tube of free base 5,10,15,20-tetraphenylporphyrin (H2TPP) sitting on my desk mostly for pure human aesthetic reasons – they’re sparkly purple. Porphyrins are created by explainable thermodynamic interactions and chemical reactions, i.e., fortuitously by chance (if chance includes the basic thermodynamics and chemical kinetics under an oxidative environment). If you have an asphalt driveway, there are some porphyrin rings in there (very small number). Beyond being the active part of hemoglobin (as you know), the porphyrinic carbon-hydrogen-nitrogen macrocycle has been observed to form in Coal Pre-Cambrian shale rock Petroleum deposits ... and the black crud [that’s the technical term ] on the bottom of round-bottom flasks containing simple hydrocarbons and organic nitrogen chemicals that have been refluxed for long periods of time. Most of the ‘crud’ is random polymers (or polymeric species), but micrograms (or less) are porphyrins. VR/Marg Act as if everything you do matters, while laughing at yourself for thinking anything you do matters. Tibetan Buddhist saying Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Coreece 190 #148 January 14, 2009 QuoteHad he prayed to Vishnu, or to the Earth Mother spirit, I am sure he would have done equally good things. I think belief in most gods and spirits can produce many benefits in the lives of believers, especially the Earth Mother....I'd go as far as saying that she is even more generous than God in terms of getting what you want....but as we know, getting what you want and getting what you need are far from synonymous to eachother. My experience with Catholocism, Buddhism, the Earth Mother, and just plain old yoga have been extremely pleasant, (well, maybe not Catholocism) but there was still something missing. They didn't give me understanding of God's character, the world, human depravity or why the hell I had a desire to stand on my head in a twisted pretzel pose in the first place. They never explained where the desire for all this came from. Ultimately, it all just seemed like self centered vain expressions of pride eventhough it did not appear to be so, and allowed me to live a relatively peaceful, optimistic and joyful life. Overall, I generally like to use the analogy, God is to gods as Seritonin is to Psilocin to describe the difference/similarities. I choose the Creator God, the genius behind the riddles of Science and the Bible.Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites JackC 0 #149 January 14, 2009 QuoteIt's a choice to believe or not. How is that confusing? We've spent the past few pages discussing how science is often just as unbelievable. I cannot simply choose to believe something that I find unbelievable. If I tried I would just be deluding myself since at the core of it, religion just doesn't make any sense. Science can seem unbelievable for those that just have a superficial understanding of it. To get to the bottom of why science says the things it does, takes a lot of work. Sometimes it takes years of study to colate all of the knowledge you need to see how it fits together. But everything science says is based on empirical evidence. Whatever theory you pick, it has to be based on what you can observe. If the experiment says no, the theory is wrong, end of. You might say that religion also takes years to understand and maybe it does, but sooner or later you always end up at the brick wall of faith. Then you can go no further. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites frequentfaller 0 #150 January 14, 2009 Quote So how do you know what to believe? i read and try to learn from people like nerdgirl. she is actually a geek, i'm a nerd. geeks are smarter than nerds. Quote Have you asked for a hint? Would you believe it if ou saw it or just write it off as coincidence? asked god to bring my dead cat back when i was a kid. dint happen. dont believe now. ask who? Quote Disagreement does not equal hate. so you love orthodox jews or shi'a/sunni muslims..cause guess what? they fuckin hate you.(they dont like me either) why? their RELIGION Quote What millions of people are you referring to? Millions of people do not hate or kill each other in the name of religion. . they have since the beginining of religions. especially the abrahamic faiths.Born ok 1st time. 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frequentfaller 0 #136 January 14, 2009 QuoteQuote True, people tend to believe what their parents believed. If everyone slowly becomes atheist then who is teaching our kids? I didnt say everyone becomes atheist. just explaining how people evolve away from religion. Quote Not quite that easy. The issues of SR and quatum mechanics illustrate that nicely. thats whats great about science. when more is learned, science is alowed to change. not.....the bible says this! the end! Quote Says who? I think it's healthy to question, research, and understand my beliefs. you'll be ok as long as you believe. the rest of us who say and ancient text isn't enough, are to be tortured for eternity. if i created a bunch of beings which i loved and cherished, i think i would make it easier for them to know what i want them to do. Quote What proof are you seeking? You won't be sent to hell for being too intelligent. There's no sin for being smart or researching the world around us. There's nothing that says science can't exist. The punishment comes from not believing. If you choose not to believe then that's your right as a free-willed person. any proof. even a hint, thats not faith based, or I heard a voice in my head. Quote You're equating a thirst for knowledge with not being a believer. If you want learn everything you can then go for it. I certainly try to. Again, that has nothing to with being a believer. I agree Quote What kind of proof would it take? again. anything. Quote Some people do crazy ass shit in the name of religion. The key there is that it's people. A person can shoot up a hospital and claim it was because God wanted him to. That doesn't mean it was God's will. Not all Christians hate Catholics. Not all muslims hate Jews. The fanatics carrying out murderous acts in the name of religion hate each other. more like millions of people do crazy ass shit in the name of religion. are you going to see any muslims or jews or, buddhists for that matter, in heaven? or is that what the hate between them is all about? if i kill the blasphemers god will like me better. my rule book(bible\koran\torah) is the correct one. Born ok 1st time. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FallingOsh 0 #137 January 14, 2009 Quote Nope. Gravity will not stop tomorrow because now you believe in antigravity. You may explain it differently, but all the belief in the world will not change how the universe works. Explain gravity. Is it the gravitron across 11 dimensions? Is it created by the curviture of space-time? How does it work in quantum mechanics? No shit, gravity exists. How you explain its existence is the part we're discussing. Quote It's also an underlying reality of Islam, and of many other religions. But was Jesus a god? Or was he one third of a trinity that makes up god? Is the Pope his representative on earth? Was he truly divine, or was he a prophet? Is the host actually his body, or is it a symbol of it? On those things you'll get lively arguments from Christians around the world. That's why I said it's up to you to believe he was who he said he was. If you're asking my personal beliefs; he was God's son and made up the trinity. I'm not Catholic. I don't believe the Pope is God's representative and I don't believe in confessing my sins to anyone other than God. You're right that Christians will debate the details. All Christians believe the same base. Christ was son of God and died for our sins. -------------------------------------------------- Stay positive and love your life. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FallingOsh 0 #138 January 14, 2009 QuoteQuoteThe punishment comes from not believing. If you choose not to believe then that's your right as a free-willed person. What on earth makes you think it's a choice? One cannot simply choose to believe that which is unbelieveable. It's a choice to believe or not. How is that confusing? We've spent the past few pages discussing how science is often just as unbelievable. -------------------------------------------------- Stay positive and love your life. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FallingOsh 0 #139 January 14, 2009 QuoteQuote What is true today wasn't true years ago and won't be true a few years from now. . . . I call my belief in creationism the truth. Quote And there is the rub of it. One of these is allowed to change based on observation. Is the religious debate, at its heart, fundamentally fueled by a fear of change? Fear of change in what? Science hasn't done anything to prove God doesn't exist. -------------------------------------------------- Stay positive and love your life. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites FallingOsh 0 #140 January 14, 2009 Quote thats whats great about science. when more is learned, science is alowed to change. not.....the bible says this! the end! So how do you know what to believe? Quote any proof. even a hint, thats not faith based, or I heard a voice in my head. Have you asked for a hint? Would you believe it if ou saw it or just write it off as coincidence? Quotemore like millions of people do crazy ass shit in the name of religion. are you going to see any muslims or jews or, buddhists for that matter, in heaven? or is that what the hate between them is all about? if i kill the blasphemers god will like me better. my rule book(bible\koran\torah) is the correct one. Disagreement does not equal hate. What millions of people are you referring to? Millions of people do not hate or kill each other in the name of religion. Those firing rockets into Israel are relatively few compared to the number of Muslims in the world. The majority of the Iranian public does not agree with the PM's hateful words. I'm not saying it doesn't happen, but billions of people in the world are religious today. A very, very small percentage take to the extreme of killing those with whom they disagree. -------------------------------------------------- Stay positive and love your life. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites pairashooter 0 #141 January 14, 2009 That sums it up great. Chris Scaife Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites deibido 0 #142 January 14, 2009 Quote It's a choice to believe or not. How is that confusing? We've spent the past few pages discussing how science is often just as unbelievable. That's just it. It isn't a choice. I can't just choose to "believe" something that doesn't make any sense to me. If I "chose to believe" I would just be lying to myself and I would know it. Nothing in science needs to be believed. It isn't a requirement."User assumes all risk" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 2,400 #143 January 14, 2009 >Explain gravity. It's a force that attracts mass to mass and warps space-time. >Is it the gravitron across 11 dimensions? We don't know. All gravitational effect might be mediated by virtual gravitons, or by actual (but unobservable so far) gravitons. The cool thing is that what we understand about or (or don't understand about it) doesn't matter. There is an underlying truth that we will likely someday discover - and that truth will not be altered by someone being born, or a book being written, or someone nailing theses to the door of a church, or someone building a temple. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites maadmax 0 #144 January 14, 2009 That's just it. It isn't a choice. I can't just choose to "believe" something that doesn't make any sense to me. If I "chose to believe" I would just be lying to myself and I would know it. Nothing in science needs to be believed. It isn't a requirement. Christianity is more of a recognition than it is a belief in some far fetched stories. If you can grasp the separation that exists between you and God, then it is easy to understand. Christ is the way back to the relationship with God that we were created for. ... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites deibido 0 #145 January 14, 2009 Quote Christianity is more of a recognition than it is a belief in some far fetched stories. If you can grasp the separation that exists between you and God, then it is easy to understand. Christ is the way back to the relationship with God that we were created for. You see, none of that makes the slightest bit of sense to me. To me it is quite far fetched indeed. It's a nice mythology, but Egyptian symbolism is nice too, as is Sumerian. Whether it is Osiris risen or Christ risen, it is still just stories, to me. However, to me, Taoism just makes sense. I like things that make sense. They are sensible."User assumes all risk" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites frequentfaller 0 #146 January 14, 2009 Quote Christianity is more of a recognition than it is a belief in some far fetched stories. If you can grasp the separation that exists between you and God, then it is easy to understand. Christ is the way back to the relationship with God that we were created for. whats to grasp about separation? what you're tryin to cryptic speak is, if i believe in god then it is easy to understand. christ is th...bla bla bl...Born ok 1st time. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites nerdgirl 0 #147 January 14, 2009 Hmm, interesting ... I would assign the descriptors differently: Preconceived conclusion Testable Hypothesis- the world and everything in it formed from a spontaneous eruption of matter, energy, and fortuitous chance random, stochastic occurrences. Scientific theory Fact- primary, secondary, tertiary protein structures that compose the functional and electrical components of the flagella. How are the DNA sequence, the folding (B-sheeet v loop, etc), and tertiary structure (3D structure) as determined by X-ray not facts? Those are just observations. What the significance of those long chains of AGTCs is a conclusion as well as similarity between DNA sequences. Just that something has a specific sequence of AGTC seems like it can't be anything other than a fact to me, eh? Faith (Concur ... but imo, not relevant to the testable hypothesis) - a belief in things hoped for. (incorrect) Fact Conclusion, based on observed data - causal mechanisms for formation of the bacterial flagellaum (different bacteria have different flagella, they're not all the same; some are more complicated, others much simpler) are possibly formed totally independent of any preconceived plan for the universe. Quote ... and aren't prophyrin rings just the coolest things. Who would ever think they could just occur by fortunate chance interactions? I do agree w/r/t porphyrins being very cool. Beautiful colors too – I have a test-tube of free base 5,10,15,20-tetraphenylporphyrin (H2TPP) sitting on my desk mostly for pure human aesthetic reasons – they’re sparkly purple. Porphyrins are created by explainable thermodynamic interactions and chemical reactions, i.e., fortuitously by chance (if chance includes the basic thermodynamics and chemical kinetics under an oxidative environment). If you have an asphalt driveway, there are some porphyrin rings in there (very small number). Beyond being the active part of hemoglobin (as you know), the porphyrinic carbon-hydrogen-nitrogen macrocycle has been observed to form in Coal Pre-Cambrian shale rock Petroleum deposits ... and the black crud [that’s the technical term ] on the bottom of round-bottom flasks containing simple hydrocarbons and organic nitrogen chemicals that have been refluxed for long periods of time. Most of the ‘crud’ is random polymers (or polymeric species), but micrograms (or less) are porphyrins. VR/Marg Act as if everything you do matters, while laughing at yourself for thinking anything you do matters. Tibetan Buddhist saying Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Coreece 190 #148 January 14, 2009 QuoteHad he prayed to Vishnu, or to the Earth Mother spirit, I am sure he would have done equally good things. I think belief in most gods and spirits can produce many benefits in the lives of believers, especially the Earth Mother....I'd go as far as saying that she is even more generous than God in terms of getting what you want....but as we know, getting what you want and getting what you need are far from synonymous to eachother. My experience with Catholocism, Buddhism, the Earth Mother, and just plain old yoga have been extremely pleasant, (well, maybe not Catholocism) but there was still something missing. They didn't give me understanding of God's character, the world, human depravity or why the hell I had a desire to stand on my head in a twisted pretzel pose in the first place. They never explained where the desire for all this came from. Ultimately, it all just seemed like self centered vain expressions of pride eventhough it did not appear to be so, and allowed me to live a relatively peaceful, optimistic and joyful life. Overall, I generally like to use the analogy, God is to gods as Seritonin is to Psilocin to describe the difference/similarities. I choose the Creator God, the genius behind the riddles of Science and the Bible.Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites JackC 0 #149 January 14, 2009 QuoteIt's a choice to believe or not. How is that confusing? We've spent the past few pages discussing how science is often just as unbelievable. I cannot simply choose to believe something that I find unbelievable. If I tried I would just be deluding myself since at the core of it, religion just doesn't make any sense. Science can seem unbelievable for those that just have a superficial understanding of it. To get to the bottom of why science says the things it does, takes a lot of work. Sometimes it takes years of study to colate all of the knowledge you need to see how it fits together. But everything science says is based on empirical evidence. Whatever theory you pick, it has to be based on what you can observe. If the experiment says no, the theory is wrong, end of. You might say that religion also takes years to understand and maybe it does, but sooner or later you always end up at the brick wall of faith. Then you can go no further. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites frequentfaller 0 #150 January 14, 2009 Quote So how do you know what to believe? i read and try to learn from people like nerdgirl. she is actually a geek, i'm a nerd. geeks are smarter than nerds. Quote Have you asked for a hint? Would you believe it if ou saw it or just write it off as coincidence? asked god to bring my dead cat back when i was a kid. dint happen. dont believe now. ask who? Quote Disagreement does not equal hate. so you love orthodox jews or shi'a/sunni muslims..cause guess what? they fuckin hate you.(they dont like me either) why? their RELIGION Quote What millions of people are you referring to? Millions of people do not hate or kill each other in the name of religion. . they have since the beginining of religions. especially the abrahamic faiths.Born ok 1st time. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 Next Page 6 of 7 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0
FallingOsh 0 #140 January 14, 2009 Quote thats whats great about science. when more is learned, science is alowed to change. not.....the bible says this! the end! So how do you know what to believe? Quote any proof. even a hint, thats not faith based, or I heard a voice in my head. Have you asked for a hint? Would you believe it if ou saw it or just write it off as coincidence? Quotemore like millions of people do crazy ass shit in the name of religion. are you going to see any muslims or jews or, buddhists for that matter, in heaven? or is that what the hate between them is all about? if i kill the blasphemers god will like me better. my rule book(bible\koran\torah) is the correct one. Disagreement does not equal hate. What millions of people are you referring to? Millions of people do not hate or kill each other in the name of religion. Those firing rockets into Israel are relatively few compared to the number of Muslims in the world. The majority of the Iranian public does not agree with the PM's hateful words. I'm not saying it doesn't happen, but billions of people in the world are religious today. A very, very small percentage take to the extreme of killing those with whom they disagree. -------------------------------------------------- Stay positive and love your life. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pairashooter 0 #141 January 14, 2009 That sums it up great. Chris Scaife Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
deibido 0 #142 January 14, 2009 Quote It's a choice to believe or not. How is that confusing? We've spent the past few pages discussing how science is often just as unbelievable. That's just it. It isn't a choice. I can't just choose to "believe" something that doesn't make any sense to me. If I "chose to believe" I would just be lying to myself and I would know it. Nothing in science needs to be believed. It isn't a requirement."User assumes all risk" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,400 #143 January 14, 2009 >Explain gravity. It's a force that attracts mass to mass and warps space-time. >Is it the gravitron across 11 dimensions? We don't know. All gravitational effect might be mediated by virtual gravitons, or by actual (but unobservable so far) gravitons. The cool thing is that what we understand about or (or don't understand about it) doesn't matter. There is an underlying truth that we will likely someday discover - and that truth will not be altered by someone being born, or a book being written, or someone nailing theses to the door of a church, or someone building a temple. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
maadmax 0 #144 January 14, 2009 That's just it. It isn't a choice. I can't just choose to "believe" something that doesn't make any sense to me. If I "chose to believe" I would just be lying to myself and I would know it. Nothing in science needs to be believed. It isn't a requirement. Christianity is more of a recognition than it is a belief in some far fetched stories. If you can grasp the separation that exists between you and God, then it is easy to understand. Christ is the way back to the relationship with God that we were created for. ... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
deibido 0 #145 January 14, 2009 Quote Christianity is more of a recognition than it is a belief in some far fetched stories. If you can grasp the separation that exists between you and God, then it is easy to understand. Christ is the way back to the relationship with God that we were created for. You see, none of that makes the slightest bit of sense to me. To me it is quite far fetched indeed. It's a nice mythology, but Egyptian symbolism is nice too, as is Sumerian. Whether it is Osiris risen or Christ risen, it is still just stories, to me. However, to me, Taoism just makes sense. I like things that make sense. They are sensible."User assumes all risk" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
frequentfaller 0 #146 January 14, 2009 Quote Christianity is more of a recognition than it is a belief in some far fetched stories. If you can grasp the separation that exists between you and God, then it is easy to understand. Christ is the way back to the relationship with God that we were created for. whats to grasp about separation? what you're tryin to cryptic speak is, if i believe in god then it is easy to understand. christ is th...bla bla bl...Born ok 1st time. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nerdgirl 0 #147 January 14, 2009 Hmm, interesting ... I would assign the descriptors differently: Preconceived conclusion Testable Hypothesis- the world and everything in it formed from a spontaneous eruption of matter, energy, and fortuitous chance random, stochastic occurrences. Scientific theory Fact- primary, secondary, tertiary protein structures that compose the functional and electrical components of the flagella. How are the DNA sequence, the folding (B-sheeet v loop, etc), and tertiary structure (3D structure) as determined by X-ray not facts? Those are just observations. What the significance of those long chains of AGTCs is a conclusion as well as similarity between DNA sequences. Just that something has a specific sequence of AGTC seems like it can't be anything other than a fact to me, eh? Faith (Concur ... but imo, not relevant to the testable hypothesis) - a belief in things hoped for. (incorrect) Fact Conclusion, based on observed data - causal mechanisms for formation of the bacterial flagellaum (different bacteria have different flagella, they're not all the same; some are more complicated, others much simpler) are possibly formed totally independent of any preconceived plan for the universe. Quote ... and aren't prophyrin rings just the coolest things. Who would ever think they could just occur by fortunate chance interactions? I do agree w/r/t porphyrins being very cool. Beautiful colors too – I have a test-tube of free base 5,10,15,20-tetraphenylporphyrin (H2TPP) sitting on my desk mostly for pure human aesthetic reasons – they’re sparkly purple. Porphyrins are created by explainable thermodynamic interactions and chemical reactions, i.e., fortuitously by chance (if chance includes the basic thermodynamics and chemical kinetics under an oxidative environment). If you have an asphalt driveway, there are some porphyrin rings in there (very small number). Beyond being the active part of hemoglobin (as you know), the porphyrinic carbon-hydrogen-nitrogen macrocycle has been observed to form in Coal Pre-Cambrian shale rock Petroleum deposits ... and the black crud [that’s the technical term ] on the bottom of round-bottom flasks containing simple hydrocarbons and organic nitrogen chemicals that have been refluxed for long periods of time. Most of the ‘crud’ is random polymers (or polymeric species), but micrograms (or less) are porphyrins. VR/Marg Act as if everything you do matters, while laughing at yourself for thinking anything you do matters. Tibetan Buddhist saying Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Coreece 190 #148 January 14, 2009 QuoteHad he prayed to Vishnu, or to the Earth Mother spirit, I am sure he would have done equally good things. I think belief in most gods and spirits can produce many benefits in the lives of believers, especially the Earth Mother....I'd go as far as saying that she is even more generous than God in terms of getting what you want....but as we know, getting what you want and getting what you need are far from synonymous to eachother. My experience with Catholocism, Buddhism, the Earth Mother, and just plain old yoga have been extremely pleasant, (well, maybe not Catholocism) but there was still something missing. They didn't give me understanding of God's character, the world, human depravity or why the hell I had a desire to stand on my head in a twisted pretzel pose in the first place. They never explained where the desire for all this came from. Ultimately, it all just seemed like self centered vain expressions of pride eventhough it did not appear to be so, and allowed me to live a relatively peaceful, optimistic and joyful life. Overall, I generally like to use the analogy, God is to gods as Seritonin is to Psilocin to describe the difference/similarities. I choose the Creator God, the genius behind the riddles of Science and the Bible.Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JackC 0 #149 January 14, 2009 QuoteIt's a choice to believe or not. How is that confusing? We've spent the past few pages discussing how science is often just as unbelievable. I cannot simply choose to believe something that I find unbelievable. If I tried I would just be deluding myself since at the core of it, religion just doesn't make any sense. Science can seem unbelievable for those that just have a superficial understanding of it. To get to the bottom of why science says the things it does, takes a lot of work. Sometimes it takes years of study to colate all of the knowledge you need to see how it fits together. But everything science says is based on empirical evidence. Whatever theory you pick, it has to be based on what you can observe. If the experiment says no, the theory is wrong, end of. You might say that religion also takes years to understand and maybe it does, but sooner or later you always end up at the brick wall of faith. Then you can go no further. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
frequentfaller 0 #150 January 14, 2009 Quote So how do you know what to believe? i read and try to learn from people like nerdgirl. she is actually a geek, i'm a nerd. geeks are smarter than nerds. Quote Have you asked for a hint? Would you believe it if ou saw it or just write it off as coincidence? asked god to bring my dead cat back when i was a kid. dint happen. dont believe now. ask who? Quote Disagreement does not equal hate. so you love orthodox jews or shi'a/sunni muslims..cause guess what? they fuckin hate you.(they dont like me either) why? their RELIGION Quote What millions of people are you referring to? Millions of people do not hate or kill each other in the name of religion. . they have since the beginining of religions. especially the abrahamic faiths.Born ok 1st time. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
