Sockin' It to Hamas

[Darius11 12]

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both Israelis and Palestinians has a claim in this land and both claims are valid. even if I hold dear every bit of this land, 2 states is the only viable solution to a bloody story.

A two State s solution might work when it is truly 50/50 When both parties have a say in where they would like the borders. It will not work when the stronger party keeps all the prime real estate and gives the people it stole the land from the shit holes.

I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

[Amazon 7]

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And you need to take the filters of your eyes and remember that there were people living on that land who have claim to that land whose ancestors have been on that land before there was even religions.

But the Palestinian and Israeli conflict started when Israel was formed.

And you need to take off the religious blinders. Of course there were people living there. Many thousands were taken away as slaves over the millenia. They kept their religion alive passed down thru their families no matter where they were driven to.. where they were butcherd for their beliefs. Funny how all thru that they managed to keep those same ancient texts intact.
You claimed that the Israeli's would love to practice genocide against those not of the Jewish faith in the land. BZZZZT wrong answer. It has not happened inside Israel... but it would if your Palistinian, Syrian, Iranian, Egyptian, Lebanese, Jordanian, Saudi, et al brothers had their way.. and you know it. You see it as the Land Of Mohammed... and anything else.. all the non believers must be eradicated from the land.

Edited to add.. that your two state solution.... would be Palestine.. and the state of Israel..would be to the west of the beach.

[JohnRich 4]

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A two State s solution might work when it is truly 50/50 When both parties have a say in where they would like the borders. It will not work when the stronger party keeps all the prime real estate and gives the people it stole the land from the shit holes.

See the attached map. It looks to me like the Gaza Strip is prime, green, water-front property.

[Darius11 12]

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And you need to take off the religious blinders

You’re the one using religious text as a valid deed to a land. Did I mention a talking snake told me I should own Microsoft so now its rightfully mine.

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Many thousands were taken away as slaves over the millenia. They kept their religion alive passed down thru their families no matter where they were driven to.. where they were butcherd for their beliefs. Funny how all thru that they managed to keep those same ancient texts intact.

Wow do you try to miss the point?

Your religion last I checked does not give you rightful ownership to a land, and the pervious persecution of your people does not excuse you doing the same thing to others. It actually is even a sadder event as it shows you did not learn.

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but it would if your Palistinian, Syrian, Iranian, Egyptian, Lebanese, Jordanian, Saudi, et al brothers had their way.. and you know it. You see it as the Land Of Mohammed... and anything else.. all the non believers must be eradicated from the land.

You are truly clueless. Out of Christianity, Judaism, and Islam guess which of the religions actually accepts all the rest?

Islam. So go read I know you hate every thing that’s Muslim but really you should at least read about something before you make false statements.

I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

[falxori 0]

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But the Palestinian and Israeli conflict started when Israel was formed.

your statement simply proves who uninformed you are about the history of this region.

i'm pretty sure 1929 and 1936 cane before 1948
1929 Riots
1936-39 Riots

1948 was significant but it wasn't the start. but even if you take this date, again, it was the Arabs who didnt accept the division plan going for the "all or nothing".

"Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero."

[Amazon 7]

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You are truly clueless. Out of Christianity, Judaism, and Islam guess which of the religions actually accepts all the rest?

Islam. So go read I know you hate every thing that’s Muslim but really you should at least read about something before you make false statements.

READ.. I actually have read it.. in parochial school. It was called comparative religion. To me.. ACTIONS speak far louder than twisted words. There are many interesting things that muslims have used to justify killing others in the koran..... acceptance???? that right there is some deep BS. In practice.. most Jews and anyone else not of the faith have been driven from much of the muslim world.

A two state solution will perhaps happen. But until there is not Jewish state on the sacred lands of Mohammed and the Jews are removed from the land... there will never be any peace from the bastard children’s side of the house... they will lie about it.. but it will never happen.. and Hamas knows it.... Hezbollah knows it... the Palestinian Authority knows it.... the Iranians know it and you know it...

SAY anything to achieve the goals.. that is what your muslim brothers are saying... over and over and over.

Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.


Some Americans might be fooled easily... but I don’t think the Israeli's will ever be... based on past performance of their deceitful neighbors.

[Darius11 12]

There was no Israel before 1948 so there was no oppressor, and no segregation. That’s what you seem to miss.

Speaking of misinformed how about the denial of facts.


Did Israelis build homes on top of where Palestinian villages were?

Did Israelis kill, and threaten to kill Villagers so they could take their land?

I know the answer to this obviously but it seems you are under the illusion that land that is currently occupied was just sitting there waiting for Israel to come along and claim it. That was not the case.

I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

[Darius11 12]

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A two state solution will perhaps happen. But until there is not Jewish state on the sacred lands of Mohammed and the Jews are removed from the land... there will never be any peace from the bastard children’s side of the house... they will lie about it.. but it will never happen.. and Hamas knows it.... Hezbollah knows it... the Palestinian Authority knows it.... the Iranians know it and you know it...

SAY anything to achieve the goals.. that is what your muslim brothers are saying... over and over and over.

Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.

Yes it is a conspiracy all Muslims are programmed that way. I only say everything I am to achieve the goal. Must convert all.
Do you realize how ridicules you sound?

I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

[Amazon 7]

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Yes it is a conspiracy all Muslims are programmed that way. I only say everything I am to achieve the goal. Must convert all.
Do you realize how ridicules you sound?

Tsk tsk tsk...

I guess they teach a different form of history in Iran.




Convert or die.

[StreetScooby 5]

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You are truly clueless. Out of Christianity, Judaism, and Islam guess which of the religions actually accepts all the rest?

Islam.

How do you explain Saudi Arabia? The official keeper of Islam, yet they do not allow any other religion to be practiced, and if they catch you doing so, they reserve the right to kill you.

We are all engines of karma

[Andrewwhyte 1]

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You are truly clueless. Out of Christianity, Judaism, and Islam guess which of the religions actually accepts all the rest?

Islam. So go read I know you hate every thing that’s Muslim but really you should at least read about something before you make false statements.

While it is true that the Islam of Saladin was more tolerant than the Christianity of Urban or Innocent, The Islam of the of today's Ayatollas and Imams in Iran, Saudi Arabia, or Syria display no such virtue.
Laws which say my word is worth less in court, annual fees for being an infidel, death as the price of conversion; these are not the hallmarks of tolerance.
It is interesting to note that the Kurdish descendants of Saladin are hated and persecuted by Sunni, Shiite and Secular regime equally.

[Darius11 12]

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READ.. I actually have read it.. in parochial school. It was called comparative religion.

Just one more. Do you take every thing you read in religious books as fact? talking snaks, made from a rib all that shit?

I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

[falxori 0]

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There was no Israel before 1948 so there was no oppressor, and no segregation

and that means there was no conflict before 1948? your logic is weird...

eventhough we went over this a couple of times, I still dont know what is the solution that you offer? is it the 1967 line or do you claim that ALL of israel is "stolen land" and by that you're basically saying that Israel needs to cease to exist before you will give us peace...

stop with the generic statements, be specific.

"Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero."

[Darius11 12]

The same way I would try to explain how the catholic church fucks young boys and hides it from people. That the very voice of God the pope just transferred people who were raping children.

If you want to know about Islam read the book. Organized religion is usually just used to stay in power over the weak-minded. I am not saying there are some crazy things said in the Koran but compared to all the crazy things said in the big 3 religions it is the most progressive.

The reason I bolded it is I know there will be someone who will miss that part just to post something ridiculous as always.

I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

[Darius11 12]

care to answer these?

Did Israelis build homes on top of where Palestinian villages were?

Did Israelis kill, and threaten to kill Villagers so they could take their land?

I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

[falxori 0]

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care to answer these?

Did Israelis build homes on top of where Palestinian villages were?

probably, Palestiian villages were destroyed in the 1948 war. shall I remind you who started this war?

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Did Israelis kill, and threaten to kill Villagers so they could take their land?

no.
some Palestinians fled and some stayed. those who stayed became Israeli citizens who have the same rights as I do (and we've been through this in the past).

now, care to answer what is the solution, where does the border lie and does Israel get to exist in your view?

"Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero."

[Amazon 7]

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While it is true that the Islam of Saladin was more tolerant than the Christianity of Urban or Innocent, The Islam of the of today's Ayatollas and Imams in Iran, Saudi Arabia, or Syria display no such virtue.
Laws which say my word is worth less in court, annual fees for being an infidel, death as the price of conversion; these are not the hallmarks of tolerance.
It is interesting to note that the Kurdish descendants of Saladin are hated and persecuted by Sunni, Shiite and Secular regime equally.

Darius has some interesting education under some interesting people.
It seems they teach misdirection as an art.

I have read all of THE koran.. I bet he has not read any other of the basis for other religions in its entirity.

Islam’s long history of forced conversions
http://michellemalkin.com/2006/08/29/islams-long-history-of-forced-conversions/

Forced conversions in Islamic history are not exceptional—they have been the norm, across three continents—Asia, Africa, and Europe—for over 13 centuries. Orders for conversion were decreed under all the early Islamic dynasties—Umayyads, Abbasids, Fatimids, and Mamluks. Additional extensive examples of forced conversion were recorded under both Seljuk and Ottoman Turkish rule (the latter until its collapse in the 20th century), the Shi’ite Safavid and Qajar dynasties of Persia/Iran, and during the jihad ravages on the Indian subcontinent, beginning with the early 11th century campaigns of Mahmud of Ghazni, and recurring under the Delhi Sultanate, and Moghul dynasty until the collapse of Muslim suzerainty in the 18th century following the British conquest of India.

Moreover, during jihad—even the jihad campaigns of the 20th century [i.e., the jihad genocide of the Armenians during World War I, the Moplah jihad in Southern India [1921], the jihad against the Assyrians of Iraq [early 1930s], the jihads against the Chinese of Indonesia and the Christian Ibo of southern Nigeria in the 1960s, and the jihad against the Christians and Animists of the southern Sudan from 1983 to 2001], the (dubious) concept of “no compulsion” (Koran 2:256; which was cited with tragic irony during the Fox reporters “confessional”!), has always been meaningless. A consistent practice was to enslave populations taken from outside the boundaries of the “Dar al Islam”, where Islamic rule (and Law) prevailed. Inevitably fresh non-Muslim slaves, including children, were Islamized within a generation, their ethnic and linguistic origins erased. Two enduring and important mechanisms for this conversion were concubinage and the slave militias—practices still evident in the contemporary jihad waged by the Arab Muslim Khartoum government against the southern Sudanese Christians and Animists. And Julia Duin reported in early 2002 that murderous jihad terror campaigns—including, prominently, forced conversions to Islam—continued to be waged against the Christians of Indonesia’s Moluccan Islands.

Given this enduring (and ignoble) historical legacy, it remains to be seen whether contemporary Muslim religious authorities—particularly those within Palestinian society, and affiliated with Hamas or Fatah—will condemn publicly the forced conversions of the kidnapped Fox reporters. Moreover, will they be joined by a chorus of authoritative voices representing the entire Muslim clerical hierarchy—Sunni and Shi’ite alike—from Mecca and Cairo, Qom and Najaf, to the Muslim advocacy groups in the West (such as CAIR in the United States, and the Muslim Council of Britain in England)—unanimous in their condemnation of this hideous practice, and formalized by a fatwa stating as much? Will such Muslim authorities at least recognize the acute predicament of Centanni and Wiig by issuing a fatwa stating that their “conversion”, being under duress, was not bona fide, condemning in advance any Muslim who might now attack these journalists for “apostasy” from Islam?

[kelpdiver 2]

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READ.. I actually have read it.. in parochial school. It was called comparative religion.

Just one more. Do you take every thing you read in religious books as fact? talking snaks, made from a rib all that shit?

you're the one claiming Islam is the religion of peace and acceptance. Meanwhile the participants in the religion want to severely punish or kill someone for the crime of having her class pick the name Mohamed for a toy bear. Or writing political cartoons. Or saying anything contrary. Real tolerant fucks.

It's been a while since the Catholic Church engaged in crusades, and I can't recall when the Jews were powerful enough to do so. You confuse the Israeli's right to self defense with a war against non Jews.

[Amazon 7]

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The reason I bolded it is I know there will be someone who will miss that part just to post something ridiculous as always

Speaking of posting the ridiculous.....

More of the same Darius.

THIS is the here and NOW Darius... acoss several continents.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convert_or_die


Twenty-first century allegations
In 2001 the Indonesian army evacuated hundreds of Christian refugees from the remote Kesui and Teor islands in Maluku province after the refugees stated that they had been forced to convert to Islam. According to reports, some of the men had been circumcised against their will, and a paramilitary group involved in the incident confirmed that circumcisions had taken place while denying any element of coercion. [12]

In 2004 Coptic Christians in Egypt occupied the main Coptic cathedral in Cairo for several days, angry at the disappearance of a priest's wife in a village in the Nile delta, who was rumoured to have been forced to convert to Islam. The BBC reported that allegations of forced conversions of Copts to Islam surface every year in Egypt.[13]

In August 2006 two journalists, Steve Centanni and Olaf Wiig, were kidnapped by Holy Jihad Brigades in Gaza City, and were apparently forced to convert to Islam at gunpoint. The Palestinian news service Ramattan and Fox News reported that they were released unharmed shortly after the release of a new video.[14] In the video, both journalists, wearing beige robes, read statements saying that they had converted to Islam, with Centanni stating "Islam is not just meant for some people; it is the true religion for all people at all times."[14]After being freed, Steve Centanni stated, "We were forced to convert to Islam at gunpoint, and don't get me wrong here, I have the highest respect for Islam, and learned a lot of very good things about it, but it was something we felt we had to do, because they had the guns, and we didn't know what the hell was going on."[14]

It was reported in February 2007 that Hindu and Sikh organisations in the UK believe that young women of these faiths are being coerced by young men they meet at university into converting to Islam. The chief of the Metropolitan Police, Sir Ian Blair attended a conference where the allegations were made. A spokeswoman for the police said: "We are aware of it as an issue that concerns the Hindu community but are not aware, without further research, of any specific incidents reported to police. We would encourage anyone who has been targeted in this way to seek help."[15]

In May 2007, members of the Christian community of Charsadda in the North West Frontier Province of Pakistan, close to the border of Afghanistan, reported that they had received letters threatening bombings if they did not convert to Islam, and that the police were not taking their fears seriously. [16]

There have been numerous reports of Islamic attempts to forcibly convert religious minorities in Iraq. In Baghdad, Christians have been told to convert to Islam, pay the jizya or die.[17] [18] [19] In March 2007 the BBC reported that people in the Mandaean religious minority in Iraq alleged that they were being targeted by Islamist insurgents, who offered them the choice of conversion or death.[20]

In 2008, the New York Times reported that Christians were forcibly converted to Hinduism in the Indian state of Orissa.[21] On the other hand, India's Christian missionaries have been accused of forcibly converting people to Christianity[6][7]. Archbishop Moras, has denied this allegation.[22]

[Darius11 12]

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and that means there was no conflict before 1948? your logic is weird...

That’s exactly my point. There were conflicts and will always be conflict between different people and as we have discussed you can go back thousands of years. The problem starts when you make a country and support it to a point where it has superior power, but that country and its policies are cruel, inhumane, and racist. Now you have people who are oppressed, and you have an oppressor.

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I still dont know what is the solution that you offer? is it the 1967 line or do you claim that ALL of israel is "stolen land" and by that you're basically saying that Israel needs to cease to exist before you will give us peace...

Realistically there needs to be two states and Israel needs to not control the other states supplies, food and every thing else.
The best way to stop the violence is by raising the standard of living so they are more similar on both sides. Just as Israel needs to be recognized as a nation, They also need to realize Palestine as a nation and not invade whenever they feel like it.

There needs to be a UN force to moderate the transition, and Israel and its military needs to stand down and move back to the original borders. There will be attacks and rockets fired yet Israel needs to have a measured response. You can not jeopardize the future of two nations on the actions of just a few people who will not give it up.


That’s the realistic answer.


The Ethical answer based on Justice is that the land should be given back, and all the people who lived their Jews, Christians, and Muslims can live on the land. All who have moved and colonized the land that’s is not theirs should go back to where they came from.

I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

[falxori 0]

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Now you have people who are oppressed, and you have an oppressor

no, you have people who over and over again refused to accept the peaceful solution because it didnt give them ALL they wanted, started wars and lost.

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They also need to realize Palestine as a nation and not invade whenever they feel like it.

Do you honestly think "we feel like it"?
no Israeli is happy with what's going on in Gaza. Israel LEFT Gaza. but when thousands of rockets fly over the borders, enough is enough. Israel left Gaza alone, Gaza came chasing us...

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Israel and its military needs to stand down and move back to the original borders.

which are?

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There will be attacks and rockets fired yet Israel needs to have a measured response. You can not jeopardize the future of two nations on the actions of just a few people who will not give it up.

and how many rockets are acceptable? why should Israel stand by and absorb it?
and once again, Hamas is not "just a few people who will not give it up.", they are the rulling party in Gaza.

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All who have moved and colonized the land that’s is not theirs should go back to where they came from.

I'm happy to see you have a realistic side too. Ideally, "they" came from here and that is their home.

"Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero."

[Darius11 12]

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I'm happy to see you have a realistic side too. Ideally, "they" came from here and that is their home.

Well if you murder me the only true justice is to bring me back to life, but when that is not possible we need to find a compromise. But one must acknowledge the injustice done even if one knows they can never make up for it. Then maybe people can move on.

I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

[falxori 0]

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Well if you murder me the only true justice is to bring me back to life, but when that is not possible we need to find a compromise. But one must acknowledge the injustice done even if one knows they can never make up for it. Then maybe people can move on.

on this (rare) constructive note, please understand that for me, all of the west bank and "ancient Israel" is something that is rightfully ours. not because it is said so in the bible but because our history as a nation is linked to these places.
we (at least most of us) do understand, however, that it is not realistic anymore and we must settle for less.

"Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero."

[AndyBoyd 0]

"And how many of those will be innocent women and kids?"

"Doesnt matter."

Yeah, it does matter. If you can't understand that the loss of innocent life in war is tragic and that nations at war ought to seek to avoid civilian causualties, your moral compass is in serious need of readjustment.

Yes, I understand that civilians sometimes are harmed and killed in war, and that this is sometimes unavoidable. But to say that the loss of civilian life is irrelevant and meaningless is an unbelievably callous statement.

[Darius11 12]

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please understand that for me, all of the west bank and "ancient Israel" is something that is rightfully ours

Which country was "Ancient Israel" ?

And whom are you including in ours? just people of Jewish decent or every one who was living there?

Or are you claiming there was no one ever there and when there were they were of Jewish faith only?

I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain