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Skyrad

Who was Jesus? Vote now...

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I'm a late-comer to this thread and have only read the first page of it, but here's my answer. I believe what the authors of the 4 New Testament gospels and Paul said about Him:
1- that He's the Son of God who died for my sins in order to restore me to a relationship with God (or "reconcile" me to God)..., and
2- that He is God in human form (He said, "I and my Father are one" and "He who has seen me has seen the Father.").

:)

Blue skies & happy jitters ~Mockingbird
"Why is there something rather than nothing?"

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My question is why would a loving God require the death of a creature that he created in the first place. Bloody ridculous, doesn't make any sense and no one has ever been able to give me a good answer as to why.
When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

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I'll help you out with defining what a cult is
I can also show you how JH and Mormons meet this criterea, so if I say something about a cult, I do not consider I am 'kicking other Chirstians in the nuts', as I do not consider them Christians.

Ot the sane time, I am aware of many Christian denomonations, with which I have no problem. To name a few, Baptist, Assembly of God, Church of God, Church of Christ, Pennecotal, Lutheran, Presbyteryen, Episcapalian, etc.

1. Extrabiblical Authority: All cults deny what God says in His Word as true. Cults have shifted their theological point of authority away from God's full and final written Word, the Bible, to their own unique, self-promoting opinions about the Bible; they generally will use parts of the Bible but will have their own unique scripture which is considered to be superior to the Bible. While some cult groups give token respect for the Bible and go through the motions of accepting the authority of Scripture, in reality, they honor the group's or leader's novel interpretation of Scripture as normative.

2. Works Salvation/Legalism: Cults teach that eternal life depends upon something other than the Atonement; i.e., faith in the atoning, finished work of Christ on the cross is deemed not to be sufficient (usually replaced with human works and human responsibility). Rather than relying on the grace of God alone for salvation, the salvation message of the cults always boils down to required obedience to, or abstention from, certain obligations and practices (some even including obedience to the Old Testament law).

3. No Assurance of Salvation: The issue of a cult member's salvation is never settled, but is constantly affected by the changing circumstances of life; in this way, cult leaders are able to produce continued obligation and spiritual bondage, rather than spiritual freedom.

4. Guru-Type Leader/Modern Prophet: The cult leader is looked to as the infallible interpreter of Scripture, specially appointed by God to be a special saint, guru, or contemporary messiah, and thereby, has divine authority that must not be violated. Cultists almost always quote their leader rather than the Bible. The cult's adherents often expound the virtues of the founders and seek to cover the founder's sins and wickedness.

5. Vacillating, Ambiguous Doctrines/Spiritual Deception: In order to gain favor with the public, and thereby aid in the recruitment of new members, cult "doctrine" tends to be characterized by many false or deceptive claims concerning the cult's true spiritual beliefs (e.g., Mormons are not quick to reveal their belief that God was a man, who has now become the God of planet Earth).

6. Exclusivity from/Denunciation of Other Groups: Each cult group, regardless of what other doctrines are taught, will all have this one common idea -- "The Only True Church Syndrome." The members of each specific organization have been taught that their church, organization, or community, is the only true group and that all other groups are false. The group's leaders will explain that it is impossible to serve God without being a member of the specific group. Moreover, when the cult leader announces himself as the true "Messiah," all others are declared to be dishonest, deceitful, and deluded, and must be put down; alternative views are denounced as being satanic and corrupt. Persecution is welcomed, and even glorified in, as "evidence" that they are being persecuted for righteousness sake. Thus, if a member decides to leave the group, they have been told that they are not simply leaving an organization, but rather they are leaving God and His only true organization. Hence, for a member of a cult who has been in a group for any length of time, the action of leaving the group is much more difficult than what most Christians understand. To leave the group is, in the minds of the cult member, tantamount to leaving God.

7. Claims of Special Discoveries/Additional Revelation: Acceptance of new, contemporary, continual revelations that either deny the Bible or are allowed to explain it. The fundamental characteristic of Christianity is that it is historical, not dependent upon private knowledge and secret, unconfirmable relationships, while the almost universal basis of cult religion is the claimed exclusive revelation that one person has supposedly received. Rather than conforming to Biblical rules of evidence (2 Cor. 13:1), cult leader revelations almost always emanate from hallucinations, visions, dreams, private discoveries, etc. These new revelations often become codified as official written "scripture" of the cults (e.g., The Book of Mormon), and are considered as valid as that of the apostles (and even more relevant because they are given in these end times).

8. Defective Christology: Cults always have a false view of the nature of the Person of Jesus Christ; a cult will usually deny the true deity of Christ, His true humanity, His true origin, or the true union of the two natures in one Person.

9. Defective "Nature of Man": Most cults do not see man as an immortal being; instead they see him either as an animal without a soul or as a being which is being perfected to the point of becoming a god. They usually do not see man as a spirit clothed in a body of flesh awaiting the redemption of body and soul.

10. Out-Of-Context Scripture Use as Proof-Texts/Segmented Biblical Attention: Cults tend to focus on one verse or passage of the Bible to the exclusion of others, and without regard for the context in which Scripture is given (e.g., 1 Cor. 15:29 used by Mormons to justify baptism for the dead). In addition, cults have made an art form out of using Christian terminology, all the while pouring out their own meanings into the words.

11. Erroneous Doctrines Concerning Life After Death and Retribution: Covering the gamut from soul sleep to annihilationism to purgatory to universalism to the progression to godhood, cults invariably deny the existence of a final judgment of, and a final "resting" place for, the unrighteous.

12. Entangling Organization Structure: The less truth a movement represents, the more highly it seems to have to organize itself; the absence of truth seems to make necessary the application of the bonds of fear. Cults often demand total commitment by their converts to an organizational involvement that entangles them in a complicated set of human restrictions, giving the impression of passionate and often irrational devotion to a cause.

13. Financial Exploitation: The cultic practitioner strongly implies that money contributed to the cause will earn the contributor numerous gifts, powers, and abilities, and in many cases, outright salvation.

14. Pseudomystical/Spiritistic/Occultic Influence: Occult influence is many times found in either the origin of the group and/or in its current practices.

"Copyright BDM. All Rights Reserved"









Blah blah blah! Good job of copy/paste. You still never answered my question on how the Mormon Church is a cult. Nothing in my almost 30 years in the RLDS Church fits into any of these categories. On top of that I could google and find an anthropological description of a cult as opposed to a biased one.

Ultimately I don't care what people think. I just don't believe in people hating on other religions. Shit my GF is atheist, do I care? Fuck no. That's her choice, she doesn't give a crap about my religion either.
DS #149
Yes I only have 3 jumps...it's the magic number dude.

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But what does the dying have to do with it? And what was his "spiritual sacrifice"?

He took the judgement for the worlds sin.



But what was his "spiritual sacrifice"? He didn't lose anything by taking judgement, he wasn't punished in any way, he went to live in heaven!
Do you want to have an ideagasm?

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--But what was his "spiritual sacrifice"? He didn't lose anything by taking judgement, he wasn't punished in any way, he went to live in heaven!



I can't begin to imagine what the spiritual sacrifice of Christ on the cross entailed. All I know is that He was sinless and therefore uniquely qualified to offer Himself to take the judgement for our sins.
His sacrifice apparently resulted in His spiritual death, like it does in us who practice evil. God accepted His sacrifice, resurrected Him and restored His spiritual life. Because of that we no longer have a barrier keeping us form knowing God. We can enjoy a personal relationship with Him, now and for eternity.

...

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My question is why would a loving God require the death of a creature that he created in the first place. Bloody ridculous, doesn't make any sense and no one has ever been able to give me a good answer as to why.



My first inclination would be to agree with you on this. All I can say and hope for is that God is loving
and that all things will work together toward that purpose. Otherwise we are doomed indeed. But I firmly believe God is good and loving and that we now only see in part, but some day we will see fully just as we are fully known, by God, and loved.

...

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--But what was his "spiritual sacrifice"? He didn't lose anything by taking judgement, he wasn't punished in any way, he went to live in heaven!



I can't begin to imagine what the spiritual sacrifice of Christ on the cross entailed. All I know is that He was sinless and therefore uniquely qualified to offer Himself to take the judgement for our sins.
His sacrifice apparently resulted in His spiritual death, like it does in us who practice evil. God accepted His sacrifice, resurrected Him and restored His spiritual life. Because of that we no longer have a barrier keeping us form knowing God. We can enjoy a personal relationship with Him, now and for eternity.

...



Jesus was not without sin. The stories of his youth were carefully sorted through by the Church in order to portray him as such.
If you want to know the real story you must look beyond the Bible. Read the writings that were left out.
This is but one example. farms.byu.edu/publications/transcripts/?id=115
HAMMER:
Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a
kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the
object we are trying to hit.

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I can't begin to imagine what the spiritual sacrifice of Christ on the cross entailed. All I know is that He was sinless and therefore uniquely qualified to offer Himself to take the judgement for our sins.
His sacrifice apparently resulted in His spiritual death, like it does in us who practice evil. God accepted His sacrifice, resurrected Him and restored His spiritual life.



Then that's not death, is it? Resurrection maketh not a sacrifice. What did he lose? Fuck all. So why the big hullabaloo? It's pointless.
Do you want to have an ideagasm?

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Jesus was not without sin. The stories of his youth were carefully sorted through by the Church in order to portray him as such.
If you want to know the real story you must look beyond the Bible. Read the writings that were left out.
This is but one example. farms.byu.edu/publications/transcripts/?id=115




The above in cultic propaganda by Mormons... lmao
Tact is not my specialty.....

Dirty Sanchez #453

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My question is why would a loving God require the death of a creature that he created in the first place. Bloody ridculous, doesn't make any sense and no one has ever been able to give me a good answer as to why.



My first inclination would be to agree with you on this. All I can say and hope for is that God is loving
and that all things will work together toward that purpose. Otherwise we are doomed indeed. But I firmly believe God is good and loving and that we now only see in part, but some day we will see fully just as we are fully known, by God, and loved.

...



So in other words you don't know why either.
When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

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Jesus was not without sin. The stories of his youth were carefully sorted through by the Church in order to portray him as such.
If you want to know the real story you must look beyond the Bible. Read the writings that were left out.
This is but one example. farms.byu.edu/publications/transcripts/?id=115




The above in cultic propaganda by Mormons... lmao



Yes, I know that. I knew it when I posted.
The point is this: Most branches of Christianity hold Jesus as being a perfect infant who grew into a perfect child who grew into a perfect adult. There is plenty of evidence around to dispute this notion, and the example I posted was just one small bit.
Christian leaders don't want people to know that Jesus was a normal child who, according to some sources, was a bit of a delinquent.
HAMMER:
Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a
kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the
object we are trying to hit.

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"There are about 2.1 billion Christians in the world today, where are the other 4 billion going when they die??????



I really wonder where you get this figure from? While you may be able to (closely) estimate the global population, there is no possible way you could estimate the # of christians. There are many who profess but are not, there are many who are, and are not considered in polls, or averaging etc. and indeed in many countries, where you can still die for being a christian, there are many who are, but in secret.

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As a father what if im a Christian however my son decides to choose atheism or perhaps one of the many other religions available, how am I supposed to enjoy my time in heaven when I now my beloved son is eternally burning in a lake of fire???? Will god erase my memory?????? Can you at least answer this one? "



As a father, if you choose to be a christian, you would of course teach your son about Jesus and the word of God. When he reaches the age of accountability, he has to choose, but if you train him right, he will choose at some point in his life.

Proverbs 22:6
Train a child in the way he should go, and when he is old he will not turn from it.

I know many parents (including my own) who have/had children lost in the world, but because of thier faithfulness to God, and thier fervent prayer, eventually those children did/will return to the fold, and make Jesus the Lord of thier life.

James 5:16
... The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much.
Tact is not my specialty.....

Dirty Sanchez #453

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What you posted was not a small bit of 'evidence', it is a big bit of made-up speculation..



Then don't believe it.
Most of what we know about Jesus' life is speculation. The Church just prefers you to believe he was perfect and without sin. Otherwise, their whole story falls apart.
HAMMER:
Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a
kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the
object we are trying to hit.

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So in other words you don't know why either.



There are many things about God that I don't understand. His Word says to have faith and trust that He is good and works everything out the best way possible. And that He loves us. That is all I need. I know it is true.

...

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Most of what we know about Jesus' life is speculation.



It is not speculation, when it comes from recorded history.

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The Church just prefers you to believe he was perfect and without sin. Otherwise, their whole story falls apart.



The church isn't a organization who wants us to belive Jesus was perfect... the church simply believes, and repeats what the Bible says. Tha Jesus Christ was the only person who was sinless. He was God made man. Because he was God, he could not sin. Since the bible is the infallable word of God, which was written by those inspired by God, it is true, not speculation.

On another note, never before or again, has a volume of books, been written that was authored by many people from many walks of life, and many nationalities, and diffferent centuries, and also been so cohesive that they compliment one another and do not oppose each other. That could not have beenb man-concieved.
Tact is not my specialty.....

Dirty Sanchez #453

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Just another note I want to put out there...


Everyone who has lived and who will live, will at one point, bow, and confess that Jesus Christ is lord. It's just that for some, it will be too late. But they will confess it.:P

Tact is not my specialty.....

Dirty Sanchez #453

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Then that's not death, is it? Resurrection maketh not a sacrifice. What did he lose? Fuck all. So why the big hullabaloo? It's pointless.



You are predictable, I have been waiting for that outburst. The Bible says that His sacrifice for sin was monumental. I do not know the full extent of it but I believe it was real, and because of it, I can know God.

....

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