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Tink1717

Gun people (help needed ASAP)

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I guess my point is that not all shootouts are at close range.



Not all shootouts in your house are not at close range, since the OP was asking about home defense?

If there's a possibility of having a 70yrd shoot out inside your house, can I come visit for a vacation?
--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

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Okay, you gave an example, which is what I originally asked for. If you're a NRA member you have probably seen the "Armed Citizen" articles in their magazine. And in all of the years I've read those stories, I don't recall ever hearing of incident that happened from more than a few feet away.

As you probably know, we could argue about this forever. However, if someone were to pull a weapon on me from 50 yards away. My fiirst instinct would be to seek cover, my second instinct would be to retreat/run away. When both of failed I would return fire.
"No cookies for you"- GFD
"I don't think I like the sound of that" ~ MB65
Don't be a "Racer Hater"

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12 ga shotgun....It is the best HD weapon really.

This is something I have always not really agreed with. Don't get me wrong, I have a loaded shotgun in my place but I just think it is a bit slow. I try to think of it like this...... the bad guy could come in when im taking a crap, in bed, in the shower etc..... it is easy to keep a pistol by you and it is fast to draw and crack off several rounds. I do shoot pistols more so I probably am biased and yes it takes more practice but I think if you are willing to put the time in which you should if you are a gun owner than my preference is a pistol. I have my 1911, another .45, and my .38 spread out in my home if needed. JMHO

Rob

Life is all about ass....either you're kicking it, kissing it, working it off, or trying to get a piece of it.
Muff Brother #4382 Dudeist Skydiver #000
www.fundraiseadventure.com

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I try to think of it like this...... the bad guy could come in when im taking a crap, in bed, in the shower etc..... it is easy to keep a pistol by you and it is fast to draw and crack off several rounds. I do shoot pistols more so I probably am biased and yes it takes more practice but I think if you are willing to put the time in which you should if you are a gun owner than my preference is a pistol. I have my 1911, another .45, and my .38 spread out in my home if needed.



And you have valid points....And the "best" is always debatable.

My thoughts are that in most cases it will be dark and a scatter gun like a 12GA is much better in those types of situations. The fact that it scatters means that you can really just point it in the correct direction and at house distances you will hit.

Plus proper pistol use requires training and drilling. Most people buy a gun, load it and put it in a drawer "just in case".

When people are in a panic....And most people will be in a state of panic when someone is breaking in....I'd rather them have the higher probability hit weapon than the weapon that requires training.

Shot has a higher chance of hit, requires less training, plus the sound of a pump racking itself is enough to make a grown man cry.

All in all I have more training with an M4 and I would be much more comfortable with it....But that does not mean it is the best choice based on pure ballistics and hit probability.

But like I said...."best" is always subjective.
"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

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Ron,

I don't disagree with anything you are saying either and yes "best" is relative. I hate thinking about all of those people that have the gun "just in case" and do not take the time to learn how it shoots or to be properly trained but it is the world we live in. This may sound a little crazy but I also want to be able to kill the guy with the least amount of damage tomy place..... ha :) But I have been shooting my whole life and have had to draw a weapon on someone once. It is just like skydiving in a way.... currency and muscle memory.


Oh and an M4 would be a very reliable and solid weapon to use as well....

cheers
Life is all about ass....either you're kicking it, kissing it, working it off, or trying to get a piece of it.
Muff Brother #4382 Dudeist Skydiver #000
www.fundraiseadventure.com

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I guess my point is that not all shootouts are at close range.



Not all shootouts in your house are at close range, since the OP was asking about home defense?

If there's a possibility of having a 70yrd shoot out inside your house, can I come visit for a vacation?

................................................................

The question I was responding to was...."I asked you to show me an example of where an armed citizen was attacked (carjacked, raped, threatened with a deadly weapon) from a distance of more than 10 feet."

It's doubtful that a person would be carjacked from inside your house either.

Honestly, Dave, You can come visit me, inside my double-wide, anytime. I've heard people say it is the ultimate in mobile home living.;)

So, I guess I was responding to a different question.

When I think of home defense, though. I think of outside my house also. There are many scenarios where a person might need to go outside with a weapon.

Getting back to what kind of weapon to pack....There are all kinds of specialized guns that may be ideal for a particular scenario. In Africa, a hunter might have a gun bearer or two packing extra rifles that would be ideal for the job.

For a little Warthog he might whisper..."Hand me my 243". Yet that same rifle might be worthless on a charging Cape Buffalo.

I'm not saying there is an ideal weapon that will work wonderfully for everything. Some weapons do fill the bill better than others though.

Most people don't have the luxury of multiple weapons. In a combat situation, most hunting situations, or even home defense you might be stuck with one weapon to get the job done.

A shotgun is a great close range weapon, but it may be worthless for a longer shot unless you have some slugs.

Maybe I'm belaboring my point on this.

Another example might be the M-79 grenade launcher. This was seen on nearly every patrol in Vietnam. For the right situation in combat, it was a great weapon. In other scenarios it was worthless. At very close range you couldn't use it for obvious reasons. At longer ranges it wouldn't reach. I'd hate to be stuck with a weapon like that, because of it's limitations.

Today's military has a new M-79 grenade launcher with an M-16 on top. I would think this would be a great improvement.

No, I'm not suggesting getting an M-79 grenade launcher for home defense.:)

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No, I'm not suggesting getting an M-79 grenade launcher for home defense. But, I think this analogy may have a point.



Actually, there is a flechette round that can be fired from the M-79/M-203 that is very effective from point blank out to about 50 meters. Likewise, there is a HE round that can be used effectively from 25 meters out to 300 meters. What this shows is that the M-79/M-203 is a versatile weapon but its effectiveness is dependent on the round being shot out of it,kind of like a shotgun.
"It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required"
Some people dream about flying, I live my dream
SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING

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I'd heard tell that there was a flachette round for the M-79, even back in the early 70's. Maybe I should have mentioned that.

I know you know a whole lot more about that sort of thing than I do, Lou.

Technology has improved weapons considerably since the Vietnam days. I wonder though if the average grunt carried more than one type of round for the M-79 in Vietnam.

I remember one Vietnam, war story where a dead NVA soldier was found with an m-79 HE projectile in his chest. It was fired at such close range that it didn't have time to turn enough times to arm itself. It was unexploded and buried in vitals....

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It was fired at such close range that it didn't have time to turn enough times to arm itself. It was unexploded and buried in vitals....



The round must travel between 14-27 meters to arm.
"It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required"
Some people dream about flying, I live my dream
SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING

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+1....crooks RUN when you rack a round in ashotgun



Nice fairy tale for armchair commandos. Good guys get the RUNS after hearing the safety click off in the living room now that the badguy has targeted your position. Ooooopppps!

Help me! I'm dead and I can't get up . . . . :D:S
“Keep your elbow up!"

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Technology has improved weapons considerably since the Vietnam days. I wonder though if the average grunt carried more than one type of round for the M-79 in Vietnam.

During Vietnam, since the infrantry then was using the M-79 as an actual weapon system, I'd say mainly HP and WP. Purely speculation of course.

Now for side B. Post-Vietnam infrantry.Sometime between Vietnam and Grenada around the time the M203 was introduced, some higher-up in a smoke filled control room decided the M203 should only be used as a squad leader's weapon so they could launch smoke and flares. There was also talk that the quadrant sight was fragile and didn't hold up well in the field. So unless someone got their head screwed on straight since the gulf war. The infrantry is still using it as a flare gun. :S
"No cookies for you"- GFD
"I don't think I like the sound of that" ~ MB65
Don't be a "Racer Hater"

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This is getting way off subject, but sometimes that's fun.

I couldn't hit much with an M-79 grenade launcher. Maybe that's one reason I never liked it much. It had this sight that slid up and down for different ranges. I'd imagine if a person fired one enough, you might get good at just eyeballing what you wanted to hit without sights. It probably was a good versatile weapon in the right hands.

That's impressive that the effective range is out to 300 yards with one. I didn't think they would be good out that far, but what do I know.

We used to fire a 60 mm. mortar with a little base plate and striker lever at the bottom. You would eye ball where you wanted to hit by holding the tube, and then press the lever. I've heard that some people, including the North Vietnamese were quite effective with weapons like that. They were much quicker and easier to set up than a conventional mortar....

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I couldn't hit much with an M-79 grenade launcher.



With a 203 I could send a round through a window at 100 meters most of the time. It just took lots of practice...Luckily, I got a lot of practice.

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That's impressive that the effective range is out to 300 yards with one.



Pretty easy to hit an area target at that range...Doubt I could drop it in a trash can, but it had a kill radius of I think 20 feet and a 100 foot hurt box (it has been about 7 years...So that could be wrong).

And at the time we had a buckshot round that basically turned the 203 into a BIG shotgun.

Most of the time all we saw were practice rounds and HE rounds. The practice rounds were fun though. I used to try and fire them really high and drop them onto close targets. A RO once yelled at me and asked if I was trying to shoot down the space shuttle :D
"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

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+1....crooks RUN when you rack a round in ashotgun



Nice fairy tale for armchair commandos. Good guys get the RUNS after hearing the safety click off in the living room now that the badguy has targeted your position. Ooooopppps!

Help me! I'm dead and I can't get up . . . . :D:S


This, of course, comes from your VAST experience with your AK, right?
Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

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