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jclalor

Nova's judgment day: Intelligent design on trial

By jclalor, in Speakers Corner

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kallend    1,623

kallend
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this message is for kallend.
"I survived a low altitude canopy collision - will you be so lucky?

It was not luck that saved you, it was God desire to give you one more chance. If i was you i would be thanking him.



Stop dissing the FSM, or He will smite you with His Noodly Appendage.
...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

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vortexring    0

vortexring
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That's a good question.
The first point is we probably all agree the majority of humanity has got it wrong on religion.
Consider these stats on world religions (by population) found on Wikipedia:

1Christianity 1.9 billion
2 Islam 1.1 billion
3 Hinduism 781 million
4 Buddhism 324 million
5 Sikhism 19 million
6 Judaism 14 million
7 Bahá'í Faith 6.1 million
8 Confucianism 5.3 million
9 Jainism 4.9 million
10 Shinto 2.8 million


The world population I believ is just over 6 billion. So even if youa are a Christian then you must believe that the vast majority of the world is wrong. So its a fact that by far the majority of the world's population is not Christian, nor are they Muslim, nor are they Hindus, nor are they Budhist. So we all agree its possible for the majority of the people to get it wrong.



This is getting into mans misuse and misapplication of religion again. What if none of them are wrong in Gods eyes? What if all he wants is faith and some form of dedication to a supreme being? What if there's more than one God? The questions and possibilities are endless. Does it make him seem to less realistic through this reasoning? Perhaps, if all the attention you want to give it is superficial.

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Ask yourself do people believe what they do becuase of a careful consideration of the evidence or do they have their beliefs because they have inherited them? If its becuase they've carefully considered them your question may have some weight, but if its becuase they've simply inherited them without thinking about it , then it has little weight.



I doubt there are many people who've just blindly accepted their religion, and never questioned it in some form or other. If it's just inheritance, how did it all begin in every society throughout the Worlds history?

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How do we tell? well we can look at the geographical distribution of religion. If people arrive at their religious conclusions due to careful cosnideration we might expect religious views to be distributed randomly, some Americans might be Muslims, others Chrisitan, others atheist for example. However that's not what we find, what we find is the what you believe is very largely driven by where you were born. If you were born in the USA you are likely to have Chritisna views, in the the MIddle East Musilm, in India Hindu etc. That implies the cultural theory of belief inherticance is correct. People have not carefully considred their religious views they'e simply got them form their parents.



This is now about religion rather than God - religion has been misused and misapplied throughout time eternal!

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Furthermore people tend to believ what suits them , not what's true. The view that there is life after death is very comforting , that alone could keep religion alive, apart from the fact many religions arent exactly tolerant of non belivers. What we want to believe will have a big influence on what we do believe, but it has no bearing whatsoever on what is actually true.

One last thing; most scientists in the 19th century believed in something called the aether, there were very good reasons to believe it existed. However it turned out that the aether didnt exist, Einstiens theory of reltativity made it redundant and superflous. The lesson : even when you have good reasons to believe something exists does not mean it actually does. The only way to decide such issue is testable evidence.



Sure - and no doubt people will look back at todays scientists and laugh their bald heads off!:P

'for it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "chuck 'im out, the brute!" But it's "saviour of 'is country" when the guns begin to shoot.'

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kallend    1,623

kallend
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That's a good question.
The first point is we probably all agree the majority of humanity has got it wrong on religion.
Consider these stats on world religions (by population) found on Wikipedia:

1Christianity 1.9 billion
2 Islam 1.1 billion
3 Hinduism 781 million
4 Buddhism 324 million
5 Sikhism 19 million
6 Judaism 14 million
7 Bahá'í Faith 6.1 million
8 Confucianism 5.3 million
9 Jainism 4.9 million
10 Shinto 2.8 million


The world population I believ is just over 6 billion. So even if youa are a Christian then you must believe that the vast majority of the world is wrong. So its a fact that by far the majority of the world's population is not Christian, nor are they Muslim, nor are they Hindus, nor are they Budhist. So we all agree its possible for the majority of the people to get it wrong.



This is getting into mans misuse and misapplication of religion again. What if none of them are wrong in Gods eyes? What if all he wants is faith and some form of dedication to a supreme being? What if there's more than one God? The questions and possibilities are endless. Does it make him seem to less realistic through this reasoning? Perhaps, if all the attention you want to give it is superficial.



If there's more than one god, all but one will be pissed with monotheistic religions. If there's one god, she will be pissed with religions that preach that there is more than one.

The various religions are, for the most part, quite inconsistent with each other, which makes it highly unlikely that ANY of them are true.

And, of course, never lose sight of the fact that there is not one iota of evidence for the existence of any gods at all.
...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

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jakee    1,254

jakee
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This is getting into mans misuse and misapplication of religion again.



:S

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What if none of them are wrong in Gods eyes? What if all he wants is faith and some form of dedication to a supreme being?



Why would it? If there's a God that doesn't care what name, form, personality, ethical system, commandments etc. that you ascribe to it, why would it give a flying fuck if you believed in it at all?

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I doubt there are many people who've just blindly accepted their religion, and never questioned it in some form or other. If it's just inheritance, how did it all begin in every society throughout the Worlds history?



It's plainly obvious that kids born into a certain religion are massively more likely to stay in that religion than move to another. The vast majority of people belong to a certain faith because they were taught it first, not because they examined all the evidence from a neutral perspective and decided theirs was the best.

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This is now about religion rather than God - religion has been misused and misapplied throughout time eternal!



Has it fuck. Religion is about belief in a deity. It is a natural consequence of religion that it will lead to intolerance and bad stuff, not a misuse of it. You don't get to redefine religion as something which should only lead to good.
Do you want to have an ideagasm?

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billvon    2,396

billvon
>So even if youa are a Christian then you must believe that the vast majority of the world is wrong.

I'm a Christian. I don't think the majority of the world is wrong. (Or at least, they are not necessarily any more right or wrong than I am.)

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labrys    0

labrys
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I'm a Christian. I don't think the majority of the world is wrong. (Or at least, they are not necessarily any more right or wrong than I am.)



I'm not a christian. I also think that everyone is entitled to their own beliefs and opinions and that they are no more right or wrong than I am.
Owned by Remi #?

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jakee    1,254

jakee
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It is a natural consequence of religion atheism that it will lead to intolerance and bad stuff, not a misuse of it.



Not "fixed". But just as accurate as the original quote.:|


Not really. Intolerance is a natural consequence of humanity, but atheism doesn't bring anything extra to the party in the way many religions do.
Do you want to have an ideagasm?

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vortexring    0

vortexring
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And, of course, never lose sight of the fact that there is not one iota of evidence for the existence of any gods at all.



Just as there isn't one iota of evidence for his non-existence.

'for it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "chuck 'im out, the brute!" But it's "saviour of 'is country" when the guns begin to shoot.'

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popsjumper    2

popsjumper
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I dunno.



That's about the only correct thing in your whole post. Unfortunately the rest of it assumes that everyone else shares your ignorance, and that's a classic fallacy.


Classic response of the simple-, closed-minded. No discussion, only mindless attack.
:S

However, you do seem to somewhat redeem yourself in later posts...regardless of believability.
My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

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jakee    1,254

jakee
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And, of course, never lose sight of the fact that there is not one iota of evidence for the existence of any gods at all.



Just as there isn't one iota of evidence for his non-existence.



Didn't we just have the wee little pixie conversation? There's not one iota of evidence against the existence of any fairy story creature or plane of existence that's ever been made up. Doesn't mean there's a 50/50 chance that they exist.
Do you want to have an ideagasm?

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popsjumper    2

popsjumper
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It is a natural consequence of religion atheism that it will lead to intolerance and bad stuff, not a misuse of it.



Not "fixed". But just as accurate as the original quote.:|


Not really. Intolerance is a natural consequence of humanity, but atheism doesn't bring anything extra to the party in the way many religions do.


What party? Do you mean the party that depends on religious dogma where atheism has no place?

Are you so close-minded that you can't recognize the value of differences of opinion that generate more discussion?

Apparently, yes.
My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

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jakee    1,254

jakee
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However, you do seem to somewhat redeem yourself in later posts...regardless of believability.



Thanks, I'll sleep easier knowing that.

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What party? Do you mean the party that depends on religious dogma where atheism has no place?



What?

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Are you so close-minded that you can't recognize the value of differences of opinion that generate more discussion?



A) What the fuck are you talking about?

B) Some opinions are worthless. The Moon landings were faked, Bush blew up the WTC, God designed all the creatures 'cos gosh darn it I just can't figure out how evolution is supposed to work, anyone who doesn't believe in the god that I do has been tricked by Satan. Worthless opinions.
Do you want to have an ideagasm?

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frequentfaller    0

frequentfaller
Are you so close-minded that you can't recognize the value of differences of opinion that generate more discussion?

Apparently, yes.




When thiests can't explain their belief, it's always athiests are "close minded". In actuality it's the opposite. I think that most athiests come to their conclusions gradually. In childhood we go to church, pray before we go to bed, put out cookies and milk (opps... sorry wrong deity). We read, learn, and start questioning everything we are taught. Evolution or creationism, god or no god, Why does the kid down the street not follow the same religion as me?

I love different opinions. It makes me question what I think I know or don't know. It's the way my small mind works. show me proof.
Born ok 1st time.

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maadmax    0

maadmax
I love different opinions. It makes me question what I think I know or don't know. It's the way my small mind works. show me proof.



I agree, the varying viewpoints people conceive to explain reality is VERY interesting. Proof for God is easy if you look where He manifests Himself. For what ever reason, finding the Spirit of God will not be accomplished by searching for outward signs. But His presence and love is easy to comprehend if you turn your gaze inward. It you take the time to know yourself, your spirit will definitely point the way to God. As I and many others can attest.

" Not in a mighty hurricane, not is a destructive earthquake, nor in the roaring fire, But the Word of God came in a still small quiet voice" I Kings

...

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frequentfaller    0

frequentfaller
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I love different opinions. It makes me question what I think I know or don't know. It's the way my small mind works. show me proof.



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Proof for God is easy if you look where He manifests Himself.




What I was taught god is everywhere at all times.

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For what ever reason, finding the Spirit of God will not be accomplished by searching for outward signs.



There are plenty of those billboards, mailbox junkmail, crazy dudes downtown wearin end of world signs.


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But His presence and love is easy to comprehend if you turn your gaze inward.



I comprehend, its just my inward gaze doesn't see a presense. I think that would scare the shit outta me.


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It you take the time to know yourself, your spirit will definitely point the way to God.



I know myself very well. My "spirit" ? You mean my mind? Here is where I will get a vague response. quoteing bible passages, that I am lost.


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As I and many others can attest.



number of people that believe isn't proof.
Born ok 1st time.

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maadmax    0

maadmax
--What I was taught god is everywhere at all times.


You were taught correctly! I see Him in all things, everywhere, constantly. But if you are still struggling with whether He exists or not, you need to start at the beginning.




--There are plenty of those billboards, mailbox junkmail, crazy dudes downtown wearin end of world signs.

True, but sorry I can't speak for them.





--I comprehend, its just my inward gaze doesn't see a presense. I think that would scare the shit outta me.

Maybe that explains why there are atheists.




--I know myself very well. My "spirit" ? You mean my mind? Here is where I will get a vague response. quoteing bible passages, that I am lost

I am not sure what you mean, but if you are lost please spend the effort not to stay that way.





--number of people that believe isn't proof.

Most true. But as you must have guessed by now, a relationship with God is personal experience. For us, what we have experienced is proof enough.

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