A real report about Iraq

[jgoose71 0]

Finally, a real report about Iraq that has not been filtered by a biased news media and given by someone who knows what he is talking about.

http://www.mccaffreyassociates.com/pdfs/Iraq_AAR_-_November_2008.pdf

What I thought was interesting was that we are approaching the end game in Iraq and all Obama has to do is ride it out and he will appear to be the hero. How convenient.

He can, however, really screw things up by pulling out to fast and cause even more problems. We'll see how things go.

For those that want to criticise the source.
http://www.mccaffreyassociates.com/pages/publications.htm

"There is an art, it says, or, rather, a knack to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss."
Life, the Universe, and Everything

[downwardspiral 0]

Thanks for sharing. I saved it for when the time comes that Obama takes credit for our eventual success in Iraq.

www.FourWheelerHB.com

[nanook 1]

I definitely won't criticize this report. I recognize many of the names on that report and see things as its going on over here. There is considerable amount of improvement since I've been here.

_____________________________

"The trouble with quotes on the internet is that you can never know if they are genuine" - Abraham Lincoln

[nerdgirl 0]

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Finally, a real report about Iraq that has not been filtered by a biased news media and given by someone who knows what he is talking about.

http://www.mccaffreyassociates.com/pdfs/Iraq_AAR_-_November_2008.pdf

Concur that’s it’s valuable analysis and recommendations from a highly credible source. Not sure that GEN McCaffrey's analysis exactly supports the conclusions being suggested here. Nor does it necessarily support analysis w/r/t the next administration. Rather it is critical of the policy choices of the current administration, particularly during the first years … and largely reflects criticisms and commercial media accounts from outside “The Building.”

VR/Marg


From p. 8-9 of the cited report

8. SUMMARY:

a. The new Administration will have to think through their military options in the coming six months and devise a regional strategy for CENTCOM. General Petraeus will no doubt have a new concept to recommend for the rapidly deteriorating tactical situation in Afghanistan. The available US Army and Marine combat forces are insufficient to support continued robust presence in Iraq while also rapidly reinforcing our presence in the Hindu Kush with mountain infantry capable units.

b. The likely strategic outcome will be a more rapid forced drawdown than desirable in Iraq in order to enhance combat power for Afghanistan. It will be a tricky balance--- but in my judgment we will pull this off successfully. Iraq will stabilize with the rapidly increasing power of the Iraqi Security Forces ---while we reinforce the inadequate NATO combat power in Afghanistan.

c. It is hard to not be bitter about the misjudgments and denial of the DOD leadership during the first years of the war. It did not have to turn out this way with $750 billion of our treasure spent and 36,000 US killed and injured.

• If we had employed adequate ground combat power in Iraq during the initial intervention with the needed Military Police units, Civil Affairs, Engineers, Cavalry forces, and reconstruction assets.

• If we had not dismissed the Iraqi Army and thrown thousands of Saddam’s penniless officers out on the streets.

• If we had not dismissed the Baathist cadres in the government, academia, the Iraqi Armed Forces, and business -- leaving the state rudderless.

• If we had put together an international coalition with a clear UN mandate before we intervened in Iraq.

• If we had not lost the support of the American people with misjudgments about Iraqi WMD programs and Secretary Rumsfeld’s subsequent, egregious misstatements of facts about the reality of the growing insurgency war on the ground.

• If we had not issued illegal orders which resulted during the initial years in the systematic widespread mistreatment (and occasional torture) of thousands of Iraqi and Afghan detainees under our control. (This shameful situation has now been completely corrected.)

• If we had made leadership of our allies to gain their cooperation a primary objective of our diplomacy ---and allowed the Secretary of State to take the lead instead of the Pentagon.

• If we had understood the requirements of COIN operations earlier -- and not arrested and then turned into insurgents the thousands of Iraqi young men who we dragooned into detention centers with inadequate control.

• If we had more effectively engaged Iraq’s neighbors---in particular the Saudis, Kuwaitis, Jordanians, and the Turks.

• If we had seen the growing strain on our ground combat forces and expanded the US Army by 200,000 troops beginning in 2002.

d. As the Saudis note with great sadness---we entered Iraq uninvited…but we must not leave the same way. It is essential for both US and Mid East security that we pull out of Iraq in a deliberate and responsible manner--- and leave a stable and functioning state. This is clearly within our capabilities.

Act as if everything you do matters, while laughing at yourself for thinking anything you do matters.
Tibetan Buddhist saying

[nerdgirl 0]

A couple additional observations from the cited report that either resonated with me … &/or are something that I think need more widespread attention (the second one admittedly may reflect my experiential biases).


(1) Middle of page 7 in section 6 “The Economy:”

“The worst problem facing the economy is the “brain drain” of both intellectuals and experienced managerial talent which has either fled the country because of the danger and chaos of the past years--- or been murdered while trying to rebuild Iraq.”

In late 2003 thorough 2004, I was involved with a program to ‘bring up to speed’ Iraqi university professors on topics that they largely had not kept pace with due to sanctions and that they specifically requested. A lot of different things happened with the program and security issues eventually forced changes in execution/implementation and duration – & this was in Sulaymania (Kurdish north), the “Berkeley of Iraq” – for us and for the Iraqis. GEN McCaffrey’s assertions mirror some of my observations then and subsequently. For all the criticisms of intellectual elites or whatever is the euphemism for “pointed headed” academics and intellectuals made here in the US, GEN McCaffrey’s comments illustrate the downside of not having those “pointed headed” academics and intellectuals.



(2) Top of page 8 in the section 7 “The US Armed Forces” part d:

“Many of the leaders are on their third or fourth combat deployments. Fortunately, it is my impression that the most effective Captains of the combat forces are staying with us. We are having greater challenges keeping the mid-career NCOs’ at grade E-6.”

I’m familiar with retention concerns regarding O-3s, particularly those from the USMA; I was not, however, aware that E-6s were as critical a concern – or moreso as GEN McCaffrey seems to indicate.

VR/Marg

Act as if everything you do matters, while laughing at yourself for thinking anything you do matters.
Tibetan Buddhist saying

[Andrewwhyte 1]

What is an E-6?

[kallend 1,621]

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What is an E-6?

Military enlisted rank in the USA:

Staff Sergeant (SSG) Army
Petty Officer First Class (PO1) Navy
Technical Sergeant (TSgt) Air Force
Staff Sergeant (SSgt) Marine Corps


I had dinner with 2 O-6s and an 0-7 last night.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[kallend 1,621]

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Thanks for sharing. I saved it for when the time comes that Obama takes credit for our eventual success in Iraq.

Since the report documents the many Bush failures, any change is bound to be for the better.

I particularly liked this bit:

The genius of the leadership team of Ambassador Ryan Crocker, General Dave Petraeus, and Secretary of Defense Bob Gates has turned around the situation from a bloody disaster under the leadership of Secretary Rumsfeld to a growing situation of security.

Abso-bloody-lutely.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[downwardspiral 0]

Well I'm not a Bush fan but if Bush gets the blame for the failures then he also gets the credit for the successes. End war is on the horizon and Obama had absolutely nothing to do with it.

The Rummy comment made me raise an eyebrow. Twas venomous.

www.FourWheelerHB.com

[HillerMyLife 0]

Retention rates are down in all the services in all the ranks. Certainly company level leadership (SNCO's and 03's) are an integral part to maintaining a strong military but when small unit leadership suffers (squad leaders, team leaders) the entire machine suffers. LCPL's and NCO's "getting out" because their leaders aren't willing to work with them, because they're sick of watching their buddies die or suffer massive injuries, or because some feel the Iraqis don't really want to be a free nation and are content to suck on Americas tits are all reasons IMO that the military is facing these issues. The command exists to make sure the men they are charged with can succeed. If they are getting in the way of that(your experience may vary) then no one should be suprised when ALL quality men(not just SNCO's and officers) choose to move on to civilian lives. We were supposed to be killing terrorists and instead we ended up babysitting a nation that says they don't want us there, but can't go on without us.

Someday Never Comes

[TrophyHusband 0]

Quote

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What is an E-6?

Military enlisted rank in the USA:

Staff Sergeant (SSG) Army
Petty Officer First Class (PO1) Navy
Technical Sergeant (TSgt) Air Force
Staff Sergeant (SSgt) Marine Corps


I had dinner with 2 O-6s and an 0-7 last night.

i banged an O-4 this morning.

"Your scrotum is quite nice" - Skymama
www.kjandmegan.com

[shropshire 0]

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What is an E-6?

Military enlisted rank in the USA:

Staff Sergeant (SSG) Army
Petty Officer First Class (PO1) Navy
Technical Sergeant (TSgt) Air Force
Staff Sergeant (SSgt) Marine Corps


I had dinner with 2 O-6s and an 0-7 last night.

i banged an O-4 this morning.

Well that's nothing.... Bush and Rummy fucked the WHOLE of the service.

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[kallend 1,621]

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Quote

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What is an E-6?

Military enlisted rank in the USA:

Staff Sergeant (SSG) Army
Petty Officer First Class (PO1) Navy
Technical Sergeant (TSgt) Air Force
Staff Sergeant (SSgt) Marine Corps


I had dinner with 2 O-6s and an 0-7 last night.

i banged an O-4 this morning.

Well that's nothing.... Bush and Rummy fucked the WHOLE of the service.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[kallend 1,621]

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Well I'm not a Bush fan but if Bush gets the blame for the failures then he also gets the credit for the successes. End war is on the horizon and Obama had absolutely nothing to do with it.

Disagree. Recovering from a FUBAR of your own making with 4,000+ dead and a $Trillion pissed away is better than nothing, but hardly praiseworthy. Bush is not bringing our dead boys back to life, and the money is gone for good.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[nerdgirl 0]

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We were supposed to be killing terrorists and instead we ended up babysitting a nation that says they don't want us there, but can't go on without us.

I don't know if you intended it as such or not, but I think your concluding comment is just as relative -- if not moreso -- to much of the discussion in the "Should the US Negotiate with the Taliban?" thread.

The US military excels at traditonal military operations. We have the best military in the world and the most sophisticated equipment.

Traditional military operations and sophisticated weaponry are unlikely to yield success in asymmetric warfare. Especially the kind of long term success needed to reduce radicalization and foster stability in places like Iraq, Afganistan, the Islamic Maghreb (e.g., Algeria), or other parts of Africa (e.g., Tanzania - al Shabab & Al-Ittihad al-Islami and Uganda).

... prior thoughts on SSTR and here. We don’t do SSTR well, and we don’t train (most) of our uniformed military to do SSTR.

VR/Marg

Act as if everything you do matters, while laughing at yourself for thinking anything you do matters.
Tibetan Buddhist saying

[nerdgirl 0]

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What is an E-6?

I had dinner with 2 O-6s and an 0-7 last night.

i banged an O-4 this morning.

...

Thanks for the chuckle.
/Marg

Act as if everything you do matters, while laughing at yourself for thinking anything you do matters.
Tibetan Buddhist saying

[LOSTandCRAZY 0]

You know what sucks about Iraq, screw the "success" or "failure" or who gets the blame, or "pat on the back":

It's THIS:

FIVE YEARS AND COUNTING: U.S. & COALITION CASUALTIES IN IRAQ IS 4,513

Win, lose, or draw, there are 4,513 friendlies that won't ever be coming home.

They will never know the rest of their lives, get to play baseball with their children, or skydive.

That's the SAD fact. Sad, but true. And I think those are the only numbers that aren't skewed.

I find myself sitting here feeling like Lieutenant Dan. What's it FOR???

Will it ever end?

You know the day I'm looking forward to? I'm looking forward to the day that everyone on earth drops their guns, and lives life.

I want to see THAT report.

"Get these balls!"

[kelpdiver 2]

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You know the day I'm looking forward to? I'm looking forward to the day that everyone on earth drops their guns, and lives life.

I hope you aren't putting any plans on hold while waiting for that day. It's been a few millenium for mankind so far.

[HillerMyLife 0]

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We were supposed to be killing terrorists and instead we ended up babysitting a nation that says they don't want us there, but can't go on without us.

I don't know if you intended it as such or not, but I think your concluding comment is just as relative -- if not moreso -- to much of the discussion in the "Should the US Negotiate with the Taliban?" thread.

The US military excels at traditonal military operations. We have the best military in the world and the most sophisticated equipment.

Traditional military operations and sophisticated weaponry are unlikely to yield success in asymmetric warfare. Especially the kind of long term success needed to reduce radicalization and foster stability in places like Iraq, Afganistan, the Islamic Maghreb (e.g., Algeria), or other parts of Africa (e.g., Tanzania - al Shabab & Al-Ittihad al-Islami and Uganda).

... prior thoughts on SSTR and here. We don’t do SSTR well, and we don’t train (most) of our uniformed military to do SSTR.

VR/Marg

Actually I wasn't really thinking of that thread in particular when I made the comment; it was more or less a frustrated observation on the current state of the military and how some policies implemented by the military actually go against making progress, which in the end makes the job harder and drives away good servicemen.

Here is an example. A typical Marine rifle company goes through a deployment cycle, comes back to the states, most vets get out and new guys come in to replace them. That also happens at the "office" level of the company; new captain, new SNCO's, new management style. The office level staff have no combat experience or deployment experience, which by itself isn't a problem because obviously everyone can't come to the fight with combat experience.

The problem is when that office staff can't or won't listen to its vets of the past deployment; their experiences, their ideas for training new riflemen, basically what worked and what didn't. And so newly reorganized company goes in for 7-12 months of conventional combat training, usually tacking on some sort of urban training right before the deployment when it is too late. And the small unit leaders(the good ones anyway) end up having to train their guys on what worked and what didn't without any support from their leaders, almost behind their backs.

The real issue isn't that traditional operations and high tech weapons won't work against terrorists and terrorism, but rather that traditional IDEAS won't work. Having a well equipped, well trained military should NEVER be a disadvantage and using it as an excuse for failure is disgusting(not directly aimed at you NG). The problem isn't that we are too good or too big or too whatever. Its that we don't have enough leaders in the military that understand what the real mission is, nor the smarts to effectively use the men they have been charged with to accomplish it.

SSTR is now fast becoming the new mission and as you said most of the military doesn't do it well. Again I say that we have become distracted from our actual mission which is getting rid of terrorists. Its akin to spraying poison on the entire garden because of weeds. Doing that would just poison the entire population and not be in line with the goals of the garden. Pluck the weeds out and allow the rest of the plants to flower.

Someday Never Comes

[billvon 2,380]

>Finally, a real report about Iraq . . .

We've gotten these about once a month, along with the usual diatribe about the "biased liberal media" and the accolades accorded to the guy who "is honest enough to tell it like it is." Oddly enough, the content rarely changes - things in Iraq are going great, not like everyone says, and you should support the war with all your heart.

Like the man said, fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice - you can't get fooled again.

While the content of these very predictable bits of political propaganda does not change, conditions in Iraq (fortunately) do.

[Squeak 17]

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Thanks for sharing. I saved it for when the time comes that Obama takes credit for our eventual success in Iraq.

and what will you do with it if he does

You are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky)
My Life ROCKS!
How's yours doing?

[jgoose71 0]

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We've gotten these about once a month, along with the usual diatribe about the "biased liberal media" and the accolades accorded to the guy who "is honest enough to tell it like it is." Oddly enough, the content rarely changes - things in Iraq are going great, not like everyone says, and you should support the war with all your heart.

Like the man said, fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice - you can't get fooled again.

While the content of these very predictable bits of political propaganda does not change, conditions in Iraq (fortunately) do.

This isn't about trying to fool anyone. We have a new government coming into power and some new policies are coming into effect. There is no denying the mistakes that have been made, but now the end is slowly coming into sight. How are we going to meet it?

Yes, over 4,000 americans have died and over 36,000 have been wounded. But if you talk to these people, you will see that they believe in what they are doing. Every stable government in the middle east brings us one step closer to world peace. Backing out now would result in Iraq falling back into Chaos and bring about hundreds of thousands of more deaths, but as long as they are not american it's supposed to be OK? It almost sounds like the environmentalist that says we can't drill in the US responsibly, but it's OK to get oil from an environmental nightmare in another country. Not to mention letting the people who died for something actually die for nothing when the end is in sight.

Also, like I mentioned earlier, this is not propaganda. This came from an actual expert who went there to update the powers that be on the progress that is being made. From reports like this is where the media gets their information and spins it to their liking. I thought it would be a fresh change to see something unfiltered. Or did you just read the subject line and decide to comment without reading the report, seeing who was interviewed, or how it even came about?

"There is an art, it says, or, rather, a knack to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss."
Life, the Universe, and Everything

[billvon 2,380]

>Also, like I mentioned earlier, this is not propaganda.

Neither were any of the dozens of other "this is really what's going on in Iraq" reports. They were always the "real thing."

> Backing out now would result in Iraq falling back into Chaos and bring
> about hundreds of thousands of more deaths, but as long as they are not
> american it's supposed to be OK?

No, it's not OK. Neither are the hundreds of thousands of deaths we have already caused. Neither are the half million deaths in Darfur that we're ignoring. About all we can do is make sure that we're not the ones causing the deaths.

We're not the world's policemen, and the sooner we recognize that the better.

[LOSTandCRAZY 0]

"Yes, over 4,000 americans have died and over 36,000 have been wounded. But if you talk to these people, you will see that they believe in what they are doing."

Until they SEE what they are doing... and what that's going to cost the rest of us, in mental health care. I give a shit if they "believe in what they are doing", the repurcussions of what they are doing will fuck up their lives, and those around them, for the REST of their lives, and the Goverment that they fought for will RUN. RUN like a bitch. It's what they do.

If you are a soldier, and you're thinking of going to the VA for healthcare? Especially MENTAL health care?

DON'T. IT WILL FUCK UP THE REST OF YOUR LIFE. Trust me. They HATE you, because you will be a RISK. No hero shit, no bullshit here. Suck it up. DRINK A LOT. It helps. You may be ble to keep a job as an alcoholic, THAT'S the only hope you will have.


Trust me, I know. So does my stepfather, took him 20 years to get over Viet Nam.

My family had to suffer in the process. And I hate myself for all the shit I've caused. Always will.....

Sell that shit to someone else. They believe in what they're doing until it affects the rest of their lives, and they aren't to that point yet.

And when you ASK for help, you get shit on.

"RISK". "MONEY". "LIABILITY". "CONVENIENCE OF THE GOVERNMENT".

You ASSHOLE. How DARE you.

American heros are quickly forgotten. I know guys with Congressional medals of Honor that would tell you the SAME THING.

Fuck off. YOU go die. We're done.

"Get these balls!"

[HillerMyLife 0]

Fellow veteran or someone who thinks they know what they are talking about?? I honestly can't tell. Pretty sure the last guy to get a MOH was from my old unit and he didn't live to tell his story of getting shit on.

Most I've the guys I know(since we're using personal anecdotes) haven't had similar experiences with the VA, if anything they are getting hooked up more than any previous generation of vets.

I do agree with the hero rhetoric though...people DO forget.

Someday Never Comes