Rest In Peace, America

[windcatcher 0]

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I probably did more research on Bill Ayers than most of the anti-Obama-"he pals around with terrorists" people did. I just didn't see it as a connection to have much concern about.

Wow, are you kidding me? The fact that our president is friends with a man who is unrepentant about bombing various buildings and only wished he would've done more. You know the saying, you become like the people you surround yourself with?

Mother to the cutest little thing in the world...

[Shotgun 1]

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The fact that our president is friends with a man who is unrepentant about bombing various buildings and only wished he would've done more.

Ayers's explanation for the "wish I had done more" comment was that he wished he had done more to stop the war. And you know, I wasn't around during the Vietnam War, but I suspect that I would have opposed it at the time too. Now I'm pretty sure I wouldn't have set bombs to make my point, and I don't condone what he did, but to some extent I do understand why he did it. Our government was sending young men - often against their will - to go fight and die in a war that many people did not believe in.

Here is a quote from Ayers regarding his infamous statement: "The war in Vietnam was not only illegal, it was profoundly immoral; millions of people were needlessly killed. Even though I worked hard to end the war, I feel to this day that I didn't do enough because the war dragged on for years after the majority of the American people came to oppose it. I don't think violent resistance is necessarily the answer, but I do think opposition and refusal is imperative."

And looking at the rest of his life beyond that era, it appears to me that he has dedicated quite a bit of it to helping other people.

So no, I'm not kidding you. I don't really see a problem with Obama's connection to Bill Ayers.

[stitch 0]

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I probably did more research on Bill Ayers than most of the anti-Obama-"he pals around with terrorists" people did. I just didn't see it as a connection to have much concern about.

Wow, are you kidding me? The fact that our president is friends with a man who is unrepentant about bombing various buildings and only wished he would've done more. You know the saying, you become like the people you surround yourself with?

Can you post a link that says they are or were ever friends?? All I ever remember hearing about Obama's association with Ayers was that they served on a commitee together.

"No cookies for you"- GFD
"I don't think I like the sound of that" ~ MB65
Don't be a "Racer Hater"

[rhys 0]

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You know the saying, you become like the people you surround yourself with?

where does that leave christians then? Lyers, corrupt....

If you really think Mcain would have been a better presedent, then you are a minority, you live in a democracy, and you lost.

Obama is clearly the favorite, he gave hope to many that have never voted before because they didn't believe in the system previously.

America is not all about white, middle class, christan people, it is about 'all' of america.

When the early americans purchased slaves by the thousands and exploited them, little did they know what would be happening in 2008. The offspring of those slaves and the generations that followed are a large part of the outcome of the 2008 election.

Obama being elected is a great step forward for equality in the world.

If you want to talk about association with terrorists, talk bout how 'American companies' (GHWB's grandfather etc.) supplied the fuel and chemicals to the Nazis and the Japanese before the USA entered WW2, allowing them to kill hundreds of thousands of people for simple profit.

Don't know about that?... It wasn't on Fox News was it?

http://oldamericancentury.org/bushco/bush_crime_family.htm

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George Walker, GW's great-grandfather, set up the takeover of the Hamburg-America Line, a cover for I.G. Farben's Nazi espionage unit in the United States. In Germany, I.G. Farben was most famous for putting the gas in gas chambers; it was the producer of Zyklon B and other gasses used on victims of the Holocaust. The Bush family was not unaware of the nature of their investment partners. They hired Allen Dulles, the future head of the CIA, to hide the funds they were making from Nazi investments and the funds they were sending to Nazi Germany, rather than divest. It was only in 1942, when the government seized Union Banking Company assets under the Trading With The Enemy Act, that George Walker and Prescott Bush stopped pumping money into Hitler's regime.

So get a grip, accept the result and look forward to to a more United, united states of america.

or do you not want that?

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

[Shotgun 1]

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Can you post a link that says they are or were ever friends?? All I ever remember hearing about Obama's association with Ayers was that they served on a commitee together.

Here's a brief summary of the Ayers/Obama connection. (It's wikipedia, but it seems accurate compared to previous stuff that I've read.):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Ayers_presidential_election_controversy#Interaction_between_Obama_and_Ayers

[stitch 0]

Yes. That is the same information I have seen. Nowhere in the text does it imply they were ever friends

"No cookies for you"- GFD
"I don't think I like the sound of that" ~ MB65
Don't be a "Racer Hater"

[CyniQ 0]

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Obama is clearly the favorite, he gave hope to many that have never voted before because they didn't believe in the system previously.

If you want to talk about association with terrorists, talk bout how 'American companies' (GHWB's grandfather etc.) supplied the fuel and chemicals to the Nazis and the Japanese before the USA entered WW2, allowing them to kill hundreds of thousands of people for simple profit.


So get a grip, accept the result and look forward to to a more United, united states of america.

or do you not want that?

Jesus Christ... everybody LOVES a low rent conspiracy theory. Nice try dood.

We're not any more united or any better off than we were Monday. We will have a new tool in the White House, just like the old tool.

I agree that Obama's election is problematic. For the basic reason that when the party that controls Congress also controls the Presidency, they have far too much power. It just gives them the opportunity to screw up more fabulously. Absolute power corrupts absolutely, right? And Obama and his Pelosi/Reid run Congress will be no different from Bush/Frist. Oh sure... they'll spend money on different stuff. They'll try and pass different laws. But all in all, it'll be the same old same old. They intend to infringe on your freedoms. It's Patriot Act II, same song, different verse. I hope you do like change... cause that's all you're likely to be left with... a bit of CHANGE in your pocket. If you believe differently, you're a dreamer, and I wish you the best of luck.

You retards should've at least tried to understand Ron Paul. Or at least listened when he quoted Henry Ford... "It is well that the people of the nation do not understand our banking and monetary system, for if they did... there would be revolution by tomorrow morning."

Tout est pour le mieux dans le meilleur des mondes possibles.

[Shotgun 1]

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Yes. That is the same information I have seen. Nowhere in the text does it imply they were ever friends

Yeah, I don't get the impression that they are BFF's. But personally, I don't really care if Ayers is a "friend" or just an "acquaintance" of Obama's. Either way, I just don't see it as a negative mark against Obama.

[nanook 1]

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You retards should've at least tried to understand Ron Paul.

Everybody understood him completely. that's why nobody voted for him. You call us "retard" and then tell us to understand him? You must be "enlightened". What did you do, read an Ayn Rand book?

_____________________________

"The trouble with quotes on the internet is that you can never know if they are genuine" - Abraham Lincoln

[rhys 0]

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Jesus Christ... everybody LOVES a low rent conspiracy theory. Nice try dood.

That is a typical neo-con type statement, all talk, no substance.

Got some links to say these type of things didn't happen? Do you suggest American companies and bankers didn't try to reap the benifits of a huge damand for fuel, metal, chemicals, arms..... during the wars?

Why wouldn't they?

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And Obama and his Pelosi/Reid run Congress will be no different from Bush/Frist. Oh sure... they'll spend money on different stuff. They'll try and pass different laws. But all in all, it'll be the same old same old. They intend to infringe on your freedoms.

can see into the future can we? Statements like that do not leave the realms of these forums so be careful what you say if you want people to take you seriously, only time will tell.

Obama today, who knows in 4 years time, hopefully more movement toward the left as time goes on,

as Jimmy hendrix once quoted;

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"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, only then will there be peace".

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

[CyniQ 0]

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You retards should've at least tried to understand Ron Paul.

Everybody understood him completely. that's why nobody voted for him. You call us "retard" and then tell us to understand him? You must be "enlightened". What did you do, read an Ayn Rand book?

Absolutely!! But I like Anthem. I'm not one of those Fountainhead groupies.

I probably didn't mean you specifically. I meant "you" in the theoretical sense. Unless of course you don't understand that what Ron Paul stands for is more on the order of TRUE conservatism. In which case... yes... I did mean YOU.

Tout est pour le mieux dans le meilleur des mondes possibles.

[CyniQ 0]

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Jesus Christ... everybody LOVES a low rent conspiracy theory. Nice try dood.

That is a typical neo-con type statement, all talk, no substance.

Got some links to say these type of things didn't happen? Do you suggest American companies and bankers didn't try to reap the benifits of a huge damand for fuel, metal, chemicals, arms..... during the wars?

Why wouldn't they?

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And Obama and his Pelosi/Reid run Congress will be no different from Bush/Frist. Oh sure... they'll spend money on different stuff. They'll try and pass different laws. But all in all, it'll be the same old same old. They intend to infringe on your freedoms.

can see into the future can we? Statements like that do not leave the realms of these forums so be careful what you say if you want people to take you seriously, only time will tell.

Obama today, who knows in 4 years time, hopefully more movement toward the left as time goes on,

as Jimmy hendrix once quoted;

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"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, only then will there be peace".

I've no interest in whether you can "prove" or I can disprove your conspiracy theory. It's irrelevant. If you sincerely believe that America (or any other nation, really) should bear the guilt for all of her sins and transgressions of days gone by, then I pity you and your narrow-minded ideology.

Nations, like people, make their decisions based on whatever information is available at the time. Even if you would assume that your Nation has the best interests of its people and the world at heart… sometimes she’ll end up on the right side of history, and sometimes the wrong side. It is what it is. And if you want to discuss the parties culpable in the Holocaust, you might begin with an indictment of the Catholic church. Again, I would submit that it is not a productive debate.

The bottom line is: governments create laws, which erode personal freedoms. That’s what they do. This isn’t a Right or Left issue. The more time Congress spends in session, the more likely they are to screw something up. It’s a pretty simple concept and for the most part, it has proven out. You don’t need a crystal ball to see into the future, we can merely glance into our past.

The founders of this great nation had a fairly singular purpose. To establish a system of government that did those things a government should: Protect its citizenry from foreign nations, and establish and maintain a monetary standard, currency. Sure there are a few other useful purposes but…

Take a look at the 2nd Amendment. I might suggest that the primary purpose of the right of the citizen to keep and bear arms is to stand as a threat. A threat to a government that would get too oppressive, too expansive, and generally too GOVERNMENTY (it’s a word. I just made it up.) I believe that the people were granted the specific right to bear arms so that they would possess the power, the option to overthrow their own government should it become too oppressive. So that we could kick the freedom-hating bastards out of Washington by force, and reevaluate, rewrite, and reestablish a government of, by, and for the people.

Your characterization of me as a “neo-con” couldn’t be further from the truth. I am a conservative. Let me explain to you what that means, I doubt that you know. Have you ever read a shampoo or lotion bottle that instructed you to “apply liberally”? (I’ll bet you use LOTS of lotion.) What did you take that to mean? Liberal, as in A LARGE AMOUNT. Correct? What then would a “conservative” application entail? Hmmm?

As a conservative, I favor a smaller, less restrictive government. That means more freedom for me, and for you. Even though I personally oppose abortion, I do NOT approve of any constitutional ban. I think that you should be able to get all the abortions you want. Just because I personally don’t like the idea doesn’t mean that I have to impose my beliefs on you. I’m also in favor of gay marriage. It’s only fair. I favor zero new gun control laws, and I’m BARELY in favor of government subsidized museums. On the other hand… A “neo-con” is a special brand of moron who favors a large government that he believes will support his own narrow-minded ideology. All the while, he claims to be conservative, pro-freedom, pro-America, pro-Life, etc. When, in truth, he’s just a different brand of Liberal.

Truly, I mean no offense. You could be a great guy, I don’t know you. I have nothing against you except that you’re wrong and you called me a “neo-con”.

Tout est pour le mieux dans le meilleur des mondes possibles.

[masterblaster72 0]

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You retards should've at least tried to understand Ron Paul.

Everybody understood him completely.

BS. Most people I mention Ron Paul to know next to nothing about him.

Be humble, ask questions, listen, learn, follow the golden rule, talk when necessary, and know when to shut the fuck up.

[labrys 0]

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BS. Most people I mention Ron Paul to know next to nothing about him.

BS. Most people I mention Ron Paul to have a different opinion than I do about him?

Well?

Is it just that people who don't agree with you are ignorant?

Owned by Remi #?

[masterblaster72 0]

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BS. Most people I mention Ron Paul to know next to nothing about him.

BS. Most people I mention Ron Paul to have a different opinion than I do about him?

Well?

Is it just that people who don't agree with you are ignorant?

What I meant is just what I said -- most people I mention him to know little to nothing about him. Meaning that (since it's unclear to you) they've neither read much about him nor heard much about him on the tv or radio, so they didn't have much of an opinion on him.

Be humble, ask questions, listen, learn, follow the golden rule, talk when necessary, and know when to shut the fuck up.

[ChasingBlueSky 0]

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I probably did more research on Bill Ayers than most of the anti-Obama-"he pals around with terrorists" people did. I just didn't see it as a connection to have much concern about.

Wow, are you kidding me? The fact that our president is friends with a man who is unrepentant about bombing various buildings and only wished he would've done more. You know the saying, you become like the people you surround yourself with?

Funny thing about that Ayers quote.....context. Go listen to the entire interview and stop listening to talking points that are meant to inspire you off of anger and fear.

Then go look up everything there is about G Gordon Liddy and the connections he has with McCain.

There was and is no connection to be concerned about. But if you prefer to walk about with a tin foil hat on, then so be it.

What's really frustrating here is how many people prefer to lean on their fear and anger and be part of the mob instead of educating themselves. This is what concerns me more than anything else. Nothing good comes from that.

_________________________________________
you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me....
I WILL fly again.....

[tbrown 26]

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I have just hung my flag outside with a light shining upon it. It's hanging upside down
R.I.P.

Oh for Christ's sake people, it's a fucking ELECTION !! Your candidate lost, by a large margin. Get over it and go on living. I sure as hell had to 4 years ago, and especially 8 years ago. At least your guy didn't lose by one vote on the Supreme Court, by a judge appointed by the candidate's daddy.

But you know what ? I'm not dead yet, and I didn't even leave the country. I even had some pretty good years and lots of great skydives, inspite of a Bush White House. This year it's MY turn to feel good about an election. You'll get your turn again, maybe not for eight years, maybe sooner.

OUR country, yours and mine, is more resilient. WE will make it through thisw current godawful mess.

So suck it up Buttercup, and go turn your flag back rightside up.

Your humble servant.....Professor Gravity !

[brokenwing 1]

i believe i saw it on a link via cnn.com

sorry i cant be more specific but i go through several news sites daily and i do not book mark them

[kallend 1,623]

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i believe i saw it on a link via cnn.com

sorry i cant be more specific but i go through several news sites daily and i do not book mark them

Try this:

www.mediamark.com/mri/TheSource/sorc2005_03.htm

Excerpt:

Generally, the larger an urban area, the higher the salaries and cost of living. Indeed, Blue Staters have a median household income of $58,254, 28% higher than the Red state median HHI of $45,502. Because income and education are considered to be related, it makes sense that Blue Staters also have higher education levels: whereas Red Staters are 13% more likely than the general population to be high school drop-outs, Blue Staters are 15% more likely than the general population to earn a 4-year degree, and 19% more likely to earn a post-graduate degree.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[micro 0]

Oh for Christ's sake people, it's a fucking ELECTION !! Your candidate lost, by a large margin. Get over it and go on living. I sure as hell had to 4 years ago, and especially 8 years ago. At least your guy didn't lose by one vote on the Supreme Court, by a judge appointed by the candidate's daddy.

But you know what ? I'm not dead yet, and I didn't even leave the country. I even had some pretty good years and lots of great skydives, inspite of a Bush White House. This year it's MY turn to feel good about an election. You'll get your turn again, maybe not for eight years, maybe sooner.

OUR country, yours and mine, is more resilient. WE will make it through thisw current godawful mess.

So suck it up Buttercup, and go turn your flag back rightside up.

Worth repeating.

I miss Lee.
And JP.
And Chris. And...

[nanook 1]

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What I meant is just what I said -- most people I mention him to know little to nothing about him. Meaning that (since it's unclear to you) they've neither read much about him nor heard much about him on the tv or radio, so they didn't have much of an opinion on him.

That was his largest problem. He didn't break out of the pack. He didn't say anything worth taking seriously. Maybe it was California, but I saw a lot of him on TV. I heard alot of him in conversations with friends. He was public enough. It wasn't conspiracy that held him back. He did it on his own. Paul has been in politics since the Seventies. A Senator with way less public office is going to be our new President.

_____________________________

"The trouble with quotes on the internet is that you can never know if they are genuine" - Abraham Lincoln

[Belgian_Draft 0]

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i believe i saw it on a link via cnn.com

sorry i cant be more specific but i go through several news sites daily and i do not book mark them

Try this:

www.mediamark.com/mri/TheSource/sorc2005_03.htm

Excerpt:

Generally, the larger an urban area, the higher the salaries and cost of living. Indeed, Blue Staters have a median household income of $58,254, 28% higher than the Red state median HHI of $45,502. Because income and education are considered to be related, it makes sense that Blue Staters also have higher education levels: whereas Red Staters are 13% more likely than the general population to be high school drop-outs, Blue Staters are 15% more likely than the general population to earn a 4-year degree, and 19% more likely to earn a post-graduate degree.

Thank you. I checked with the US Census website, and according to their figures for 2006, Obama won 20 of the 25 top states for personal income which, as you would expect, mirror education level fairly closely. It seems ironic, in a way, that although his campaign focused on the lower and middle classes it was the more affluent regions that carried him to the White House.

HAMMER:
Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a
kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the
object we are trying to hit.

[masterblaster72 0]

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He didn't say anything worth taking seriously.

I disagree.

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He was public enough. It wasn't conspiracy that held him back.

Fox news coverage of Ron Paul after the debates...with Ron Paul leading the polls as winner throughout that night.

It was his party (with the help of the media) that held him back more than anything. He won many debates, not just that one sponsored by Fox News.

If he'd have gone Libertarian after the primaries he would have had a much more significant impact on this election.

Ron Paul also received more donations from military personnel than any other republican candidate. I think that says something.

You and I have disagreed about Ron Paul in the past and we will continue to...nothing wrong with that. Personally, I find his speeches more inspiring than any American politician I've heard in a very long time, and I will continue to support him while you and others trivialize him.

Be humble, ask questions, listen, learn, follow the golden rule, talk when necessary, and know when to shut the fuck up.

[nanook 1]

23 people donated to him. We have over a million service members. Percentage wise, the show of support is less than the civillian world.

Yeah, we disagree. I just have a thing against people, even those in my political affiliation, whose idealisms point to a high school reading assignment and an obscure and faulty economic theory.

_____________________________

"The trouble with quotes on the internet is that you can never know if they are genuine" - Abraham Lincoln

[masterblaster72 0]

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Yeah, we disagree. I just have a thing against people, even those in my political affiliation, whose idealisms point to a high school reading assignment and an obscure and faulty economic theory.

By that, are you referring to the Constitution?

Be humble, ask questions, listen, learn, follow the golden rule, talk when necessary, and know when to shut the fuck up.