What entitlement programs would you cut, and how much would it save?

[marks2065 0]

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For some time now I've been asking those who complain loudly about people who won't work and collect welfare to quantify. How many are they talking about? How much money?

So far none of the complainers has been able to answer.

So in essence they are whining about a supposed problem whose existence thay are unable to prove.

just because the numbers are not posted doesn't mean it's not happening. i didn't see your canopy colission does that mean that didn't happen?

There were about 200 witnesses and a photo published in Parachutist.

None of the whiners about welfare cheats can come up with any data to support their position.

We DO know how much money is being wasted every month in Iraq, though.

money spent in Iraq is not being wasted imo and alot of other peoples opinion, we my be the minority on this but that doesn't mean it is wasted.

[marks2065 0]

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For some time now I've been asking those who complain loudly about people who won't work and collect welfare to quantify. How many are they talking about? How much money?

So far none of the complainers has been able to answer.

So in essence they are whining about a supposed problem whose existence thay are unable to prove.

just because the numbers are not posted doesn't mean it's not happening. i didn't see your canopy colission does that mean that didn't happen?

There were about 200 witnesses and a photo published in Parachutist.

None of the whiners about welfare cheats can come up with any data to support their position.

We DO know how much money is being wasted every month in Iraq, though.

how is 5.4 trillion dollars since 1965?
www.heritage.org/research/welfare/HL524.cfm

[DanG 1]

That article was written in 1995, so it does not encompass the changes described by billvon up thread.

Either way, 5.4 trillion over 30 years, as mentioned in the article, is 15 billion a month. We currently spend 10 billion a month in Iraq.

Some might argue that providing food, medical care, and housing to needy Americans is worth more than 1.5 times the expenditure of an unnecessary war 7,000 miles away.

- Dan G

[lawrocket 3]

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That article was written in 1995, so it does not encompass the changes described by billvon up thread.

Either way, 5.4 trillion over 30 years, as mentioned in the article, is 15 billion a month. We currently spend 10 billion a month in Iraq.

Some might argue that providing food, medical care, and housing to needy Americans is worth more than 1.5 times the expenditure of an unnecessary war 7,000 miles away.

And then there are those like me who look at wasteful spending as wasteful spending.

How would I define wasteful spending? As something that doesn't provide a return on investment. The Iraq War has not provided a return on investment. Had there actually been WMD's, then it may have. But it didn't.

I find spending money on welfare programs to be wasteful. What is the return on investment?

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[AWL71 0]

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That article was written in 1995, so it does not encompass the changes described by billvon up thread.

Either way, 5.4 trillion over 30 years, as mentioned in the article, is 15 billion a month. We currently spend 10 billion a month in Iraq.

Some might argue that providing food, medical care, and housing to needy Americans is worth more than 1.5 times the expenditure of an unnecessary war 7,000 miles away.

And then there are those like me who look at wasteful spending as wasteful spending.

How would I define wasteful spending? As something that doesn't provide a return on investment. The Iraq War has not provided a return on investment. Had there actually been WMD's, then it may have. But it didn't.

I find spending money on welfare programs to be wasteful. What is the return on investment?

There is no return on investment with the exception of the warm tingly feeling the lefties get when they give out the handouts to those who refuse to get off their lazy asses. I don't get it but I am not as enlightened as the lefties...

The most terrifying words in the English language are: I'm from the government and I'm here to help.

[rehmwa 2]

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And then there are those like me who look at wasteful spending as wasteful spending....Iraq War.....welfare programs to be wasteful..... What is the return on investment?

+1

this is what slays me on this site -

what we have here is wasteful spending of 25 billion a month (15 + 10) according to our "experts" in the thread

so the arguments:

1 - My 10 billion a month is ok because your 15 billion a month is bigger

2 - My 15 billion a month is ok because your 10 billion a month is something I don't like

3 - YOU should eliminate YOUR wasteful spending while I keep mine - both sides - or even better, the classical - "you cut your program FIRST" gambit

4 - Hey, here's 25B a month we can eliminate...

Really, I'm only interested in #4

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[DanG 1]

I never claimed to be an expert, just someone who doesn't believe tossing aside our most needy citizens is the best answer.

Although the link provided is out of date and highly biased if you actually read it, I wanted to show that a 54 trillion dollar expense over 30 years is not as large as people make it out to be.

I wasn't trying to justify welfare spending by comparing it to war spending, I was just trying to put in in perspective. Perhaps that intent was not clear.

Although the cited article had a couple numbers in it (and a lot of opinion) no one has yet given any evidence of all the supposed millions of lazy fuckers lying around eating the government cheese and putting spinners on their Escalades. Sure there is fraud, but you can't seriously believe that every welfare recipient is a fraudster.

And yes, there is a return on investment for well managed social programs. The return on investment is helping people become productive members of society who then contribute to the GNP. Or we could just spend it to make Iraqis productive members of their society instead.

- Dan G

[kallend 1,618]

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For some time now I've been asking those who complain loudly about people who won't work and collect welfare to quantify. How many are they talking about? How much money?

So far none of the complainers has been able to answer.

So in essence they are whining about a supposed problem whose existence thay are unable to prove.

just because the numbers are not posted doesn't mean it's not happening. i didn't see your canopy colission does that mean that didn't happen?

There were about 200 witnesses and a photo published in Parachutist.

None of the whiners about welfare cheats can come up with any data to support their position.

We DO know how much money is being wasted every month in Iraq, though.

how is 5.4 trillion dollars since 1965?
www.heritage.org/research/welfare/HL524.cfm

Oh, thanks for find such a NON PARTISAN source of CURRENT information.

You are aware that the welfare laws were changed, right?

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[kallend 1,618]

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And then there are those like me who look at wasteful spending as wasteful spending....Iraq War.....welfare programs to be wasteful..... What is the return on investment?

+1

this is what slays me on this site -

what we have here is wasteful spending of 25 billion a month (15 + 10) according to our "experts" in the thread

so the arguments:

1 - My 10 billion a month is ok because your 15 billion a month is bigger

2 - My 15 billion a month is ok because your 10 billion a month is something I don't like

3 - YOU should eliminate YOUR wasteful spending while I keep mine - both sides - or even better, the classical - "you cut your program FIRST" gambit

4 - Hey, here's 25B a month we can eliminate...

Really, I'm only interested in #4

The laws were changed after that article was written. What is the CURRENT expenditure on lazy worthless people?

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[rehmwa 2]

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What is the CURRENT expenditure on lazy worthless people?

17 units

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Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[kallend 1,618]

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What is the CURRENT expenditure on lazy worthless people?

17 units

Thanks Bill. Do you have a primary source?

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[kelpdiver 2]

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There is no return on investment with the exception of the warm tingly feeling the lefties get when they give out the handouts to those who refuse to get off their lazy asses. I don't get it but I am not as enlightened as the lefties...

so the preferred strategy is to discard the least productive members of society? Is it totally worthless to help one's citizens, or just partially wasteful?

[billvon 2,379]

>YOU should eliminate YOUR wasteful spending while I keep mine - both sides -
>or even better, the classical - "you cut your program FIRST"

Yep. Whenever I talk to someone whose #1 priority is cutting spending across the board NO MATTER WHAT, it doesn't take long to discover which of their programs they wouldn't hear of cutting. (Although at least they are better than the "trim the fat" types that promise to find all that bloated government waste that no other politician can find)

[lawrocket 3]

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What is the CURRENT expenditure on lazy worthless people?

There is no objective answer to your question because quantifying based on qualifying is pretty impossible.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[Trent 0]

http://www.usgovernmentspending.com/

... has some worthwhile info and charting for those who are interested. Takes a little more work than just reading an article, but the numbers break down pretty easily. Of course, of interest for this thread would be the Welfare section of each year's budget.

Oh, hello again!

[kallend 1,618]

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http://www.usgovernmentspending.com/

... has some worthwhile info and charting for those who are interested. Takes a little more work than just reading an article, but the numbers break down pretty easily. Of course, of interest for this thread would be the Welfare section of each year's budget.

How much of the "welfare" section would be buying plasma TVs for worthless lazy people who refuse to work?

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[kallend 1,618]

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What is the CURRENT expenditure on lazy worthless people?

There is no objective answer to your question because quantifying based on qualifying is pretty impossible.

Just quoting someone else's whining. (here too)

"People who refuse to work" is quantifiable. I'll take those data instead.

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[kallend 1,618]

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>YOU should eliminate YOUR wasteful spending while I keep mine - both sides -
>or even better, the classical - "you cut your program FIRST"

Yep. Whenever I talk to someone whose #1 priority is cutting spending across the board NO MATTER WHAT, it doesn't take long to discover which of their programs they wouldn't hear of cutting. (Although at least they are better than the "trim the fat" types that promise to find all that bloated government waste that no other politician can find)

"Across the board cuts" are an indication of inability to set priorities and complete lack of leadership.

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Trent 0]

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How much of the "welfare" section would be buying plasma TVs for worthless lazy people who refuse to work?

You didn't see that drill-down section in there? It's right next to the section that goes to not buying plasma screens for worthless lazy people who refuse to work.

Oh, hello again!

[kallend 1,618]

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How much of the "welfare" section would be buying plasma TVs for worthless lazy people who refuse to work?

You didn't see that drill-down section in there? It's right next to the section that goes to not buying plasma screens for worthless lazy people who refuse to work.

Well, it's a legit question since one of your Texas buddies brought up that exact topic just this morning.

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[lawrocket 3]

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What is the CURRENT expenditure on lazy worthless people?

There is no objective answer to your question because quantifying based on qualifying is pretty impossible.

Just quoting someone else's whining. (here too)

"People who refuse to work" is quantifiable. I'll take those data instead.

Gee, John. As opposed to focusing on the meat of the debate, you'll take a comment from an outlier and focus on it. Any idea why there has been no answer? I'd surmise because most people don't believe it.

It's in the same family as asking, "How long ago did lawrocket stop being an asshole?" Some would say I never stopped. Maybe one person posting anonymously with a Fresno ISP might say that I never was an asshole to begin with. Still others may say last week or a minute ago or a year ago.

I really liked how rehmwa broke it down.

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1 - My 10 billion a month is ok because your 15 billion a month is bigger

2 - My 15 billion a month is ok because your 10 billion a month is something I don't like

3 - YOU should eliminate YOUR wasteful spending while I keep mine - both sides - or even better, the classical - "you cut your program FIRST" gambit

4 - Hey, here's 25B a month we can eliminate...

I think he left the main one off, though:

5) YOU should eliminate YOUR wasteful spending and give it to me. I can spend it on more worthwhile things.

This is the, "Imagine how much healthcare that missile money could buy."

Or, "Imagine how much better our roads would be if it wasn't being paid to lazy welfare queens."

My thought is along those lines. I admit it. "Imagine how much of a dent we could put into our national debt by cuttign those programs and making early repayments on it."

That's just my version of responsibility. Obviously, others think that I'm heartless. But it's their prerogative.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[lawrocket 3]

Across the board cuts is an indication of inability to set priorities? I think you fail to grasp that it is actually an indication of a big priority - to cut spending.

That is MY priority. You may have different priorities. And as I've said, mine wouldn't be across the board. I wpuld divert that money to debt repayment.

Another priority.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[kelpdiver 2]

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Across the board cuts is an indication of inability to set priorities? I think you fail to grasp that it is actually an indication of a big priority - to cut spending.

If it were true that every department had made all the nonessential cuts, then yeah, maybe across the board is sharing the pain fairly. But it's still simplistic thinking, same as an across the board spending freeze.

[billvon 2,379]

>I think you fail to grasp that it is actually an indication of a big priority - to
>cut spending.

Absolutely. But that may be the worst way to do it if your actual objective is to save money.

Case in point - the Centralia mine fire. Long story short, town council decides to burn trash in a dump, starts a mine fire. Effort #1 would have dug out the burning vein and cost about $26,000. They start, there's a "cost cutting" effort, they get the trench cut (and can see the extent of the fire) and then the money runs out. So a local politician with the "guts to take an axe to the budget" saves some money and abandons the project.

Instead, they pump fly ash down the hole and seal it back up as a cheaper alternative. Fire continues to burn.

After a while, people's houses start to become sorta unlivable with all the carbon monoxide coming out of their basements. A child falls down a sinkhole and is almost killed. A new effort to put out the fire is launched, and they dig a second (massive) trench at the cost of several million. Again they get to within striking distance of the fire, and they realize it will cost another half million to put it out.

The finger pointing begins, and no one has the money to pay for it. The state and the federal government fight it out. The trench is once again abandoned.

A few years later a third trenching effort is considered, and they start drilling boreholes to see the extent of the fire. The boreholes reveal a massive fire that would cost hundreds of millions to extinguish; the trench alone would have to be 500 feet deep. The various governments decide Centralia is not worth saving, and instead start a $42 million relocation program.

I am sure that the guy who saved a few thousand dollars on the original firefighting effort thought he was doing the right thing. But save enough money that way and you go catastrophically broke.

Which is why across-the-board cuts simply never work.

[lawrocket 3]

Across the board cuts never work.

It appears that after 40 years of the Great Society and dramatically increased spending, it's actually done more harm! There are now, apparently, MORE people living in poverty than before it even started.

There are times when you've gotta pump money into something. I started a business and I know about priming the pump. But there also comes a point when you cut your losses from a losing venture and move on.

We could, of course, continue pumping more and more money into it. We've seen this type of behavior before and know many people who individually engaged in it. You know, not enough money to pay for something they really want and so put it on credit cards. It was affordable then, and they'd make more money in the future.

And then, for some reason, their cards are maxed out, they can't afford to pay them, they lose credit, etc. They probably didn't really NEED that new X-Box or plasma tv.

The choice is to either go bankrupt and make across-the-board cuts or make across-the-board cut and not go bankrupt, taking the cuts to pay off the debt.

They may point fingers at the credit card companies or be upset at the oil companies for making gas so expensive that their SUV's just weren't affordable.

Examples of cutting payments are seen all the time, both good and bad. But with exceptions, long term good and security is usually best met by living below one's means. And the US national "means" are being tapped out.

My wife is hotter than your wife.