California Ballot Propositions

[Nightingale 0]

I was going over the California ballot propositions, and this is what I came up with through my own analysis. Knowing there are many very smart Californians here on the board, I figured I would ask for your input prior to filling out my absentee ballot, because you may see something I've missed.

This is what I'm thinking:

1A and 3 High speed train and Children's Hospital Bond

No.
Bond measures are just not a smart way to fund things right now. These may or may not be good ideas, but this is not the right way to pay for it at this point in time.

2 Standards for Confining Farm Animals

Yes.
If we're going to raise animals for food, we ought to do it humanely.

4 Waiting Period and Parental Notification for Terminating Pregnancy

No.
You can't legislate proper parenting, and if a pregnant teenager doesn't go running to mom and dad on her own when she finds out she's pregnant, that relationship is already broken.

5 Non-violent Drug Offenses

Yes.
Savings and outlay look to be about a wash, with a one time savings of $2.5 billion, which we could use right about now, plus I have never liked the idea of throwing people in jail for using drugs absent any other crime.

6 Police and Law Enforcement Funding

No.
I oppose propositions that remove flexibility from our budget. While funding police and local law enforcement may be a good thing, requiring a set amount each year is not.

7 Renewable Energy Generation

No.
This will increase utility rates in the short term, which people will have trouble affording in the current economy, cost the state millions to regulate, and has an unknown impact on state and local revenues in the long term. Local governments that provide public utilities are having enough trouble with their budget. Purchasing renewable energy is something they probably cannot afford in the next year. This is probably a good idea, but the 2010 deadline is too soon.

8 Eliminates Right of Same-Sex Couples to Marry

No.
This will take needed revenue away from state and local governments, and who someone wants to marry is none of my business or anyone else's.

9 Criminal Justice System Victim's Rights - Parole

No.
There's some good ideas in here, but some bad ideas as well. With our overcrowded prisons, extending the time between parole hearings may not be the best idea, and limiting access to counsel is probably a bad idea. This proposition just suffers from too many issues crammed into one law.

10 Alternative Fuel Vehicles and Renewable Energy

No.
First off, this is bonds. Bad idea. Also, the state would be forced to help pay for certain vehicles as long as they are not worse polluters than the current standard for gasoline or diesel. While alternative fuel is good, that just doesn't sound like enough of an improvement to justify bonds.

11 Redistricting

Yes.
Currently, the legislature is in charge of its own redistricting process, resulting in 99% of them getting re-elected. This initiative opens up redistricting so it is no longer controlled only by the party in power, and I like that. There are some flaws in the proposition, but I feel it will be an improvement over the current system.

[lawrocket 3]

his is what I'm thinking:

1A and 3 High speed train and Children's Hospital Bond

No.
Bond measures are just not a smart way to fund things right now. These may or may not be good ideas, but this is not the right way to pay for it at this point in time. So I agree.

2 Standards for Confining Farm Animals

No. Unless we can effectively ban imports that are not from conforming foreign farms, it will do very little good, and much local harm.

And I happen to agree that the risk is higher with disease vectoring. A whole farm can be wiped out presently versus large statewide populations.

But I am HIGHLY torn on this one.

4 Waiting Period and Parental Notification for Terminating Pregnancy

Yes.

I disagree that there is one insaive surgical procedure allowed without parental consent upon a minor. While I undertstand the grave nature of abortion and I am somewhat torn, at its core it is a medical procedure and should be treated as such in law.

5 Non-violent Drug Offenses

Yes.
Savings and outlay look to be about a wash, with a one time savings of $2.5 billion, which we could use right about now, plus I have never liked the idea of throwing people in jail for using drugs absent any other crime. I agree.

6 Police and Law Enforcement Funding

No.
I oppose propositions that remove flexibility from our budget. While funding police and local law enforcement may be a good thing, requiring a set amount each year is not. Agreed.

7 Renewable Energy Generation

No.

It's so poorly written, a judge declined to issue an injunction in actions brought by both sides that sought to prevent language in the elections packet that each side said was false and misleading. The judge found that the sections of the proposed law were too vague to say that either side was right or wrong.

That's a bad sign...

8 Eliminates Right of Same-Sex Couples to Marry

No.

Gays and lesbians should not be immune from marriage and divorce. But seriously, let them do it. It aint like heteros have done a good job of preserving the sanctity of marriage.

9 Criminal Justice System Victim's Rights - Parole

No.
This proposition just suffers from too many issues crammed into one law.

Yep.

10 Alternative Fuel Vehicles and Renewable Energy

No.
Bonds to subsidize certain businesses. Bad. Bad!!!

11 Redistricting

Yes.
Currently, the legislature is in charge of its own redistricting process, resulting in 99% of them getting re-elected. This initiative opens up redistricting so it is no longer controlled only by the party in power, and I like that. There are some flaws in the proposition, but I feel it will be an improvement over the current system.

Indeed!!!

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[kelpdiver 2]

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1A and 3 High speed train and Children's Hospital Bond

No.
Bond measures are just not a smart way to fund things right now. These may or may not be good ideas, but this is not the right way to pay for it at this point in time.

2 Standards for Confining Farm Animals

Yes.
If we're going to raise animals for food, we ought to do it humanely.

Bonds have generally been used for large scale infrastructure projects. If you believe in the train, you should vote for it. It's only going to get more expensive in the future. The time they spent dicking around on the Bay Bridge the price increased by billions. Also, the issuing of bonds would be done over many years, not immediately this year.

OTOH, if you don't believe in the project, certainly vote no.

Farm Animals - I've had enough with CA legislation thru initiative of this type, particularly the ones that don't take effect for so long that people don't have to think about consequences. It doesn't take effect till 2015, much like the foie gras ban that is years out.

The redistricting proposal is the other initiative of interest to me where I don't have a decision yet, having not yet even examined it. But I typically enter those readings with distrust. I know the evil of now, but the proposals are often equally flawed.

Prop 8 - I hope that Newsom ad didn't push it over the top. Brilliantly effective at reviving what was dead in the water.

[georgerussia 0]

This is what I'm thinking (I already posted some of it though, so may be duplicate):

1A High speed train
No. Not only the bond measures are just not a smart way to fund things right now when the state has a huge budget deficit, but I also do not see the whole point. It's not like California has a real problem of getting from San Francisco to San Diego and back. The planes fly every day and cost $200, which is probably what the railroad ticket would cost as well. If public transit system is to be extended, we need more local transit. At this moment it is faster to get to LA from SJC than to Oakland using available public transportation.

2 Standards for Confining Farm Animals
No. For me it's just another kind of hypocrisy. Basically we're saying it is humane treatment to castrate and slaughter animals, but not humane if we do not provide them with a large cage (or no cage at all). There are countries where HUMANS live in much worse conditions than animals in Cali farms. Not to mention it will drive the cost of doing business for farms, which will force them out of California to the states which do not have such stupid restrictions. Or to Mexico.

3 Children's Hospital Bond
No. Not a good time for bonds, and the economy goes south. And I generally do not like "save the children"-style proclamations as those who bring them very often revealed to be full of crap.

4 Waiting Period and Parental Notification for Terminating Pregnancy
No. Yet another "protect our children" proposition. Now to ban teenage abortion (I'm saying "ban" because requiring family notification for teenagers who do not want it mean that such teenager will not go for legal abortion), and shift it to the back alley abortions. Included some stupid speculation about some unknown Sarah and that she might be alive - probably because her family would pray for her after receiving notification. Usually I do not really care about abortion issues - you could always fly outside USA and have it there no matter what - but this one is really stupid. Either the proponents never had kids, or they follow some very special interests.

5 Non-violent Drug Offenses
Yes. There are too many people in prisons who shouldn't be there.

6 Police and Law Enforcement Funding
No. This is long-term shot. There are much more critical problems which require monetary investment.

7 Renewable Energy Generation
No. The cost analysis does not support the general idea.

8 Eliminates Right of Same-Sex Couples to Marry
No. Actually the only argument proponents have is that "the children MAY BE forced to learn in school that gay marriage is the same as non-gay". Why don't they just say that "your son may be forced to suck a dick in school", or that the aliens may invade the Earth?

9 Criminal Justice System Victim's Rights - Parole
No. Too much bipartisan stuff.

10 Alternative Fuel Vehicles and Renewable Energy
No. Agree with Cris.

11 Redistricting
Yes. Current legislature is disgusting. They already tried to extend their term in Constitution last election, and failed. Now they are trying it again (see http://www.sos.ca.gov/elections/elections_j.htm at the bottom). I understand they're all politicians and demanding any dignity would be just unreasonable - but do they have any self-respect, after all? The People of California already told them to forget about it, why try again?

* Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. *

[GARYC24 3]

NO on PROP 1A
High Speed Rail
NO on PROP 2
Farm Animals
NO on PROP 3
Children’s Hospital Bond Act
YES on PROP 4
Parental Notification
NO on PROP 5
Drug Offenses, Sentencing, Parole
YES on PROP 6
Police and Criminal Penalties
NO on PROP 7
Renewal Energy
YES ON PROP 8
Protect Marriage Amendment
YES on Prop 9
Victims’ Rights
NO on PROP 10
Alternative Energy Bond
YES on PROP 12
Veterans’ Bond

[Shotgun 1]

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NO on PROP 5
Drug Offenses, Sentencing, Parole

Why would you vote "No" on this?

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YES ON PROP 8
Protect Marriage Amendment

And why would you vote "Yes" on this?

These are the two propositions that I have the strongest feelings about, yet my votes are opposite of yours. I think that the "War on Drugs" needs to involve a lot more research into better treatment programs, which is one of the things that Prop 5 provides for. And Prop 8 is just ridiculous; it is beyond me why anyone would want to keep homosexual couples from being able to get married.

I'm currently holding up my vote because I'm torn about Prop 2. And there are a few props that I don't know enough about, so I probably won't vote on them unless I can find time in the next week or so to read them.

[Andrewwhyte 1]

'cause he's a so-con and your a liberal? Just a guess.

[Butters 0]

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I think that the "War on Drugs" needs to involve a lot more research into better treatment programs, which is one of the things that Prop 5 provides for.

Stop the Drug War

Edit: I fixed the link.

"That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch

[Shotgun 1]

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'cause he's a so-con and your a liberal? Just a guess.

Well, I have actual reasons for voting one way or another (not "because I'm a liberal"), and I would hope that he does too. So I'm curious to hear what his actual reasons are.

[GARYC24 3]

This is how I decide. I read all these things you get in the mail with the pro's & con's. I read them, think about them and then actually decide Yes or No. That's the way I vote, "Like it or not" ha ha ha

[Shotgun 1]

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This is how I decide. I read all these things you get in the mail with the pro's & con's. I read them, think about them and then actually decide Yes or No. That's the way I vote, "Like it or not" ha ha ha

OK, but since you posted what your votes were, I was just curious why you feel the way you do about those particular propositions.

[livendive 8]

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4 Waiting Period and Parental Notification for Terminating Pregnancy

Yes.

I disagree that there is one insaive surgical procedure allowed without parental consent upon a minor. While I undertstand the grave nature of abortion and I am somewhat torn, at its core it is a medical procedure and should be treated as such in law.

Do you think a girl should be able to take RU-486 without parental consent? Or an elevated birth control pill regimen?

Blues,
Dave

"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)

[Shotgun 1]

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Stop the War on Drugs

That link doesn't seem to be working.

[Butters 0]

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That link doesn't seem to be working.

I fixed the link.

"That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch

[downwardspiral 0]

What happened to prop 12?

www.FourWheelerHB.com

[BikerBabe 0]

I had a "yes on prop 8" volunteer call me yesterday.

He had a hard time believing that i was a christian who was going to vote no...and i think i overwhelmed him a bit with my list of reasons to vote no, 100% in counterpoint to his list of reasons to vote yes. I kinda felt sorry for the guy ><

As for the others, i'm an idealist, plain and simple. I'm voting for the train and energy things because i believe it's the right thing to do, no matter what. Yes on 2, no on 4, yes on 5, yes on 11. I haven't read enough about the others to make a decision yet.

Never meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup!

[Shotgun 1]

Thanks, and I agree with that website about ending drug prohibition, though I don't see that happening any time soon. But at least Prop 5 is a step in the right direction for California.

[downwardspiral 0]

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I had a "yes on prop 8" volunteer call me yesterday.

He had a hard time believing that i was a christian who was going to vote no...and i think i overwhelmed him a bit with my list of reasons to vote no, 100% in counterpoint to his list of reasons to vote yes. I kinda felt sorry for the guy ><

As for the others, i'm an idealist, plain and simple. I'm voting for the train and energy things because i believe it's the right thing to do, no matter what. Yes on 2, no on 4, yes on 5, yes on 11. I haven't read enough about the others to make a decision yet.

PErhaps I missed the reasoning somewhere but why do we need a high speed train from San Diego to San Francisco?

www.FourWheelerHB.com

[lummy 4]

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PErhaps I missed the reasoning somewhere but why do we need a high speed train from San Diego to San Francisco?

So you can visit all the cool dropzones we have up here perhaps?

I promise not to TP Davis under canopy.. I promise not to TP Davis under canopy.. eat sushi, get smoochieTTK#1

[downwardspiral 0]

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PErhaps I missed the reasoning somewhere but why do we need a high speed train from San Diego to San Francisco?

So you can visit all the cool dropzones we have up here perhaps?

That actually brings up a concern I had. If there are stops in Orange County, LA, Santa Barbara, Sacremento, San Jose, etc.... a 350 mph train will still take forever.

Now a bullet train from LA/OC to Vegas? Now we're talking.

www.FourWheelerHB.com

[kelpdiver 2]

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PErhaps I missed the reasoning somewhere but why do we need a high speed train from San Diego to San Francisco?

perhaps you missed that long stream of cars on I-5 every day doing that trip?

The train is more efficient than the plane or the car, and we'll continue to need more travel capacity between the two regions.

[downwardspiral 0]

No I didn't miss that. I'm just not convinced the need is there. They're talking about spending a lot of money a project we don't necessarily need during a time when our state may need a federal bail out.

www.FourWheelerHB.com

[DFWAJG 4]

So what you are saying is that this behavior is ok?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SWmAJlwLnQI

[livendive 8]

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during a time when our state may need a federal bail out.

I'm not voting in California, but I would say that the above is especially relevant. If California can't afford the money they're already spending, they should not be spending more while waiting for a handout.

Blues,
Dave

"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)

[georgerussia 0]

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So what you are saying is that this behavior is ok?

Yet another "save-our-children-and-protect-the-environment" fake video?

* Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. *