Sarah's Way--or the Highway

[Shotgun 1]

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You believe in no sex until marriage?

No.

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What is too young?

It is different for different people. Hard to set an exact age.

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How do you prevent young people from having sex?

You can't prevent them, just educate them.

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Sex education is not telling the kids to go out and start having sex, it does what a school should do teach the facts. How to properly use a condom? What your sexual organs do, what to expect when you hit puberty, etc.

Yes, I know what sex education is (should be). But from your post that I was replying to, you made it sound like it was perfectly harmless and safe for teenagers to be having sex, which it is not. And we can't prevent them from having sex, but that does not negate the fact that abstinence is the safest of all options.

Anyhow, for the most part, I agree with you more than I agree with Palin. I think explicit sex education should be taught in schools. I just think it's a bit over the top to be calling her a religious psycho just because she believes in abstinence.

[akarunway 1]

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Interesting quote I found there.

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As Alaskans we are excited about our Governor being selected as the nominee for Vice President. As residents of Wasilla, we are ecstatic about one of our own being thrust to the national forefront. However, as a church, it is not appropriate for us to endorse any one candidate over another. As believers, we are reminded in 1 Peter 2.13 that we are to submit to those in authority. 1 Timothy 2.1-2 tells us pray for those in authority.

Kewl.. Authoritarianism at its best. and its endorsed by GOD.

Does that make any of your right wingers cream your jeans or what.

You might like this one. She'll fit perfectly into a new GOP administration. Above the law. Again. http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080919/ap_on_el_pr/palin_troopergate Hubby is refusing to testify under subpoena no less.

I hold it true, whate'er befall;
I feel it, when I sorrow most;
'Tis better to have loved and lost
Than never to have loved at all.

[jclalor 12]

A low estimate is 20% are not insured in Alaska so by the figures you provided 1 of the rapes would have required a resolution by the city council. Hospitals are just not inclined to give stuff away for free. Just the thought of a rape victim having to grovel in front of strangers at a city council meeting is priceless.
What's really disturbing if there were so few reported rapes, why would Palin even bother not to continue with the old policy?
You mention the bad PR the city would get, so what do think is happening now? The only difference is it's happening to Palin.

I think Jesus would be proud.

[jenfly00 0]

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When a new mayor takes over a small town or city it is very rare for the incumbent police or fire chief to be fired. Some cities hire them as "at will " employees and others are under civil service laws, meaning you need an excellent reson to fire them.

It becomes outrageous to me when she wanted to fire the the town librarian. Kinda like sacking teachers for not marching in lockstep with the mayor's rather narrow view of the world.

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"O brave new world that has such people in it".

[jenfly00 0]

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>No one was even talking about her before she was nominated NO ONE said wow
>she would be great. It was political choice based on the worst aspects of politics.

That's not true. At least one person here thought she would be, and the first time I went to Wasilla I heard someone there mention that she was doing a good job. (By the second time, she had already moved on.)

>She is unintelligent, religious psycho who has abused her power to enforce her
>personal religious views on others. It does not get any more Un-American
>then that.

That's pretty unfair. She has, by any reasonable standard, done a competent job as mayor and governor. You can disagree with her politics and her stands on issues, and you can question whether US senator or small-state governor is a better qualification for high office, but to call her a psycho or an idiot is completely inaccurate.

Unintelligent doesn't seem accurate. She seems reasonably intelligent (seems more intelligent than dubya, actually).

Religious psycho? ...the jury is still out on that one.

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"O brave new world that has such people in it".

[marks2065 0]

Did anyone see the interview last night ? she said she believed in teaching evolution, she is religious but not to force anyone to her beliefs, and she did not try to ban Harry potter (book wasn't wrote yet when she was mayor)

[Darius11 12]

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Yes, I know what sex education is (should be). But from your post that I was replying to, you made it sound like it was perfectly harmless and safe for teenagers to be having sex, which it is not. And we can't prevent them from having sex, but that does not negate the fact that abstinence is the safest of all options.

To me it is impossible to make anyone be abstinent unless they choose to for their own belief. Not doing something is always an option what needs to be thought?

I guess that’s what I don’t get. Abstinence means abstaining from something in this case sex. It means don’t have sex. There is no rule that told me to have sex I wanted to. I have lived in a country where they try to enforce abstinence on the youth with guns and it still doesn’t work.

I guess IMO it seems like spending energy and money on trying to find a way to lick your elbow. I just don’t get it.

I understand someone not wanting to have sex until they get married thats fine, I don’t get what needs to be thought about that in school.

I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

[Darius11 12]

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Unintelligent doesn't seem accurate

She was not prepared for a national televised interview for the 2nd highest job in the land. That’s not very smart.

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Religious psycho? ...the jury is still out on that one.

For me the jury Came back with a verdict when I found out she doesn’t agree with abortion even in cases of rape and incest.

I am not saying I know when life begins but I do know that no one knows. I believe that’s a woman’s choice. The only people I have seen that argue against abortion in such sever cases are religious nuts.

I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

[jenfly00 0]

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Did anyone see the interview last night ? she said she believed in teaching evolution, she is religious but not to force anyone to her beliefs, and she did not try to ban Harry potter (book wasn't wrote yet when she was mayor)

Wrong. She insists teachers of science include her religious views.

Stick to the issue, con-boy, she fired the librarian following two discussions about banning books. According to sources who were there, no specific books were named.

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"O brave new world that has such people in it".

[livendive 8]

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Yes, I know what sex education is (should be). But from your post that I was replying to, you made it sound like it was perfectly harmless and safe for teenagers to be having sex, which it is not. And we can't prevent them from having sex, but that does not negate the fact that abstinence is the safest of all options.

To me it is impossible to make anyone be abstinent unless they choose to for their own belief. Not doing something is always an option what needs to be thought?

I guess that’s what I don’t get. Abstinence means abstaining from something in this case sex. It means don’t have sex. There is no rule that told me to have sex I wanted to. I have lived in a country where they try to enforce abstinence on the youth with guns and it still doesn’t work.

I guess IMO it seems like spending energy and money on trying to find a way to lick your elbow. I just don’t get it.

I understand someone not wanting to have sex until they get married thats fine, I don’t get what needs to be thought about that in school.

She didn't say you're going to prevent them from having sex. She said that we should teach them that abstinence is the best way to avoid STDs and pregnancy, and she also said that we shouldn't teach that it's the only way. It's true that abstinence is the best way but not the only way to avoid such things, so why wouldn't we teach kids that?

Blues,
Dave

"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)

[Darius11 12]

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Personally I think "no sex" is the best way to prevent STD's, pregnancies and kids going too far, too fast in relationships. Nothing wrong with sex when both people are ready for it. But if preventing STD's and pregnancy is your goal, avoiding sex is by far the best way to do it.

Is avoiding sex for your life or until your married a realistic goal? I don’t think it is. I think education is the only option. People who do not want to have sex for what they believe are free not to have sex.

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Depends on the person. 13 years old - definitely too young

I personally agree with you but I also understand that age of when someone is ready for sex is also based on what your culture is.

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You educate them on the risks and potential consequences, and talk to them about the decisions they are making that you (with your experience) will lead to having sex.

I am all for education.

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Actually, she is 99.999% right. See how many couples who don't have sex get pregnant.

Yes but is it realistic to assume couples will not have sex. That’s my point.

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Absolutely. And that education should stress abstinence, and cover the risks inherent in sexual activity and how to minimize them

Maybe someone who has had abstinence education can help all of us out.

When you are thought abstinence when do they say it is ok to have sex?
Do they cover condoms, or is it thought with a religious tone?

What does it cover?

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It's like teaching swooping. It is definitely important to teach people about recovery arcs, cross braced vs traditional canopies, harness turns, how to bail, how to stay out of the corner etc. It is even more important to tell them to not try it until they are ready.

I love swooping Bill, but it is not as strong as the need for sex. So even me who loves swooping will not be doing it for along time because I have not been current. It sucks but not even in the saem ball park as not having sex.
Sex especially in the teen years (and most of our life) consumes what you do what you talk about a lot of your time is spent thinking about sex. The desire to have sex is much stronger then the desire to swoop. I bet most of us didn’t even know what swooping was until we started sky diving, but sex that’s simply nature at work.

I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

[billvon 2,396]

>To me it is impossible to make anyone be abstinent unless they choose to for their own belief.

Then why bother educating them at all? They won't use condoms unless they choose to for their own belief, either.

>Abstinence means abstaining from something in this case sex. It means don’t
>have sex. There is no rule that told me to have sex - I wanted to.

Right - so did I. But I managed to suppress that desire when it didn't make sense. Most people can. The people who can't generally end up in jail.

>I guess IMO it seems like spending energy and money on trying to find a way
>to lick your elbow.

What does that have to do with anything? Are you saying that abstinence is as impossible as licking your elbow?

[Darius11 12]

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Wrong. She insists teachers of science include her religious views.

and you think

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Religious psycho? ...the jury is still out on that one.

Like I told Rush I am very rationally afraid of her having any thing to do with running this country

I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

[jenfly00 0]

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She was not prepared for a national televised interview for the 2nd highest job in the land. That’s not very smart.

I didn't say she has a mind worthy of leading a nation, I said she seemed reasonably intelligent.

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For me the jury Came back with a verdict when I found out she doesn’t agree with abortion even in cases of rape and incest.

That shows me she is unable to separate her fundamentalist beliefs from the responsibilites of public office ...not quite psycho.

What really borders on psycho is the number of people who seem to want such a person a heartbeat away from being the leader of the 'free' world.

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"O brave new world that has such people in it".

[billvon 2,396]

>Is avoiding sex for your life or until your married a realistic goal?

For some, yes. For some, having only one partner is a realistic goal. For others, limiting partners to those that are safe is a realistic goal.

If you want to avoid the threat of pregnancy or STD's, abstinence works 100%. It's like telling someone that they can avoid getting arrested for drunk driving by not drinking and driving. Sure, they can probably have a beer or two and not get popped, maybe even three. But not drinking before driving guarantees it.

Should driving courses tell you that you should avoid drinking and driving? Absolutely. They should also show them the chart showing what X drinks an hour does to your BAC and your coordination. But "don't drink and drive" is critical; you can't just say "well, people are going to do it anyway so we shouldn't bother people talking about it."

>Maybe someone who has had abstinence education can help all of us out.

Don't confuse teaching abstinence with abstinence-only. They're not the same thing.

>I love swooping Bill, but it is not as strong as the need for sex.

Not for some people!

>Sex especially in the teen years (and most of our life) consumes what you do
>what you talk about a lot of your time is spent thinking about sex.

Absolutely. Yet most men manage not to be rapists - so it is controllable, if they have a good reason to control it. I advocate teaching them those good reasons.

[billvon 2,396]

>What really borders on psycho is the number of people who seem to want such
>a person a heartbeat away from being the leader of the 'free' world.

Why? Most people in the US believe in creationism. Doesn't surprise me.

[Darius11 12]

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What does that have to do with anything? Are you saying that abstinence is as impossible as licking your elbow?

No I guess its not, but I guess I see just as unrealistic.

A major point that I think I am missing is what is your definition. Is it do not have sex ever? Do not have sex until you married? Do not have sex until you are ready?

I agree with teaching people not to have sex until they are ready ( no brainer, if you weren’t ready and someone had sex with you thats rape) but what is being ready? When is someone ready? When is someone guaranteed to have no suffering emotionally?

I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

[marks2065 0]

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Did anyone see the interview last night ? she said she believed in teaching evolution, she is religious but not to force anyone to her beliefs, and she did not try to ban Harry potter (book wasn't wrote yet when she was mayor)

Wrong. She insists teachers of science include her religious views.

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and they should. how would you feel if they taught her views and wouldn't let anyone teach your views? in this country you have to allow both / all to be taught wether you agree or not. you saying you don't agree with Palins views is fine. you saying they can't teach them is wrong. ultimately it is the individual that decides for themselves what views they feel are right for them. Teachers are supposed to teach not impress opinions to influance children.

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[jenfly00 0]

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>What really borders on psycho is the number of people who seem to want such
>a person a heartbeat away from being the leader of the 'free' world.

Why? Most people in the US believe in creationism. Doesn't surprise me.

I think a shit load of people give lip service to accepting it. Not quite the same as believing it.

I suspect millions of people 'believe' in miracles but will seek medical care when injured or seriously ill.

...but all this is away from the issue. Do we really want such a person leading the U.S.?

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"O brave new world that has such people in it".

[Darius11 12]

Bill the need for sex can not be compared with any other need. It is simply in our DNA. I understand it is controllable, however abstinence is not about controlling it, it is about denying it.

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Don't confuse teaching abstinence with abstinence-only. They're not the same thing.

I guess I am lost my friend, I really didn’t think we need to teach people that they don’t have to have sex.

I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

[jenfly00 0]

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Did anyone see the interview last night ? she said she believed in teaching evolution, she is religious but not to force anyone to her beliefs, and she did not try to ban Harry potter (book wasn't wrote yet when she was mayor)

Wrong. She insists teachers of science include her religious views.

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and they should. how would you feel if they taught her views and wouldn't let anyone teach your views? in this country you have to allow both / all to be taught wether you agree or not. you saying you don't agree with Palins views is fine. you saying they can't teach them is wrong. ultimately it is the individual that decides for themselves what views they feel are right for them. Teachers are supposed to teach not impress opinions to influance children.

OK, there's a column 'B' response ...CYA.

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"O brave new world that has such people in it".

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[Darius11 12]

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all this is away from the issue. Do we really want such a person leading the U.S.?

I know I don't, and with that I am going home.


Thank you all for the debate and remaining civil.
Peace

I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

[billvon 2,396]

>Bill the need for sex can not be compared with any other need. It is simply in our DNA.

So is the need to eat. (Hunger is stronger, actually.) Would you advocate not educating obese people about dieting?

>I really didn’t think we need to teach people that they don’t have to have sex.

You would think we didn't need to teach people that they don't have to eat Ding Dongs all day either. But educating them on dieting does actually work; a lot of people make a lot of money doing just that.

[livendive 8]

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and they should. how would you feel if they taught her views and wouldn't let anyone teach your views? in this country you have to allow both / all to be taught wether you agree or not. you saying you don't agree with Palins views is fine. you saying they can't teach them is wrong. ultimately it is the individual that decides for themselves what views they feel are right for them. Teachers are supposed to teach not impress opinions to influance children.

I don't think teachers are supposed to teach religion in public schools. If they are, it seems they'd have to teach ALL religions, leaving no time for math, reading, writing, science, history, etc...you know, the stuff that we're actually paying them to teach.

If you want your kids biology teacher to explain the wonders of creationism, you don't get to bitch when he also teaches them about karma, reincarnation, and the reasons why cows should be revered as holy rather than eaten.

Blues,
Dave

"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)

[marks2065 0]

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and they should. how would you feel if they taught her views and wouldn't let anyone teach your views? in this country you have to allow both / all to be taught wether you agree or not. you saying you don't agree with Palins views is fine. you saying they can't teach them is wrong. ultimately it is the individual that decides for themselves what views they feel are right for them. Teachers are supposed to teach not impress opinions to influance children.

I don't think teachers are supposed to teach religion in public schools. If they are, it seems they'd have to teach ALL religions, leaving no time for math, reading, writing, science, history, etc...you know, the stuff that we're actually paying them to teach.

If you want your kids biology teacher to explain the wonders of creationism, you don't get to bitch when he also teaches them about karma, reincarnation, and the reasons why cows should be revered as holy rather than eaten.

Blues,
Dave

they don't need to teach only evolution, they do need to teach and/or offer different basic teachings and let the person decide what way they want to go.
I am not religious nor do i want to be forced to be religious, but i am glad that i was given the ability to know both side and make a decission that was best for me.
about half the people believe one side and about half believe the other, is it not descimination to not allow what about half the people believe?