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Gun [Carrying] Laws

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So you support the idea of a guy carrying a weapon loaded almost anywhere (CHL)....But are afraid of a guy carrying a loaded weapon from his car to a firing line?????



Correct. It sounds contradictory, but it's not - the situations are different.

A CHL gun in a holster is not being handled, and thus is in very little danger of being accidentally discharged.

Someone walking up to a firing line at a gun range with a loaded gun, is ready and expecting to shoot that gun. This is most dangerous during a cease-fire when people are downrange checking and posting targets. If someone walks up and lays a loaded gun on a bench, while people are downrange - that's pointing a loaded gun at people. That's why ranges have rules against uncasing guns while people are downrange during a cease fire. The same reason why guns are removed from the line and there is no handling of firearms during a cease fire. It's just bad for safety.

I've personally seen someone walk up with an M1A (M14) while a kid was downrange changing targets. The rifle had a magazine inserted, safety off and bolt closed. That was bad enough - you couldn't tell if it was loaded, but it might have been. But then to make matters worse, he laid it on a bench, barrel pointed downrange where the kid was, and started fiddling with it. At that point I stepped in myself and had him point the barrel upward, make the gun safe by opening the bolt, removing the magazine, and engaging the safety, then putting the rifle in the rack behind the firing line.

Yes, this was a public range, and you sometimes see this kind of ignorance there. But you have to speak up, or something bad can happen.

Bringing loaded guns to the firing line, where lots of other people are around, maybe even downrange, is a bad idea.

Load them only when you're actually ready to shoot, when the cease fire has ended, and the all-clear given.

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Make safe and show your neighbor. The Sul position works like a champ when its not practical or tactically sound to make a weapon safe or to even reholster. That position works with a properly setup slung long gun as well.

Public ranges can be perfectly fine, IF the range master takes an active role in watching out for the "city liberal with a gun" that just walked up to the range.:D

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

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Make safe and show your neighbor. The Sul position works like a champ when its not practical or tactically sound to make a weapon safe or to even reholster. That position works with a properly setup slung long gun as well.

Public ranges can be perfectly fine, IF the range master takes an active role in watching out for the "city liberal with a gun" that just walked up to the range.:D



Do you have any evidence that city liberals with guns have more accidents than, say, trailer park rednecks with guns, or DEA agents with guns in schoolrooms?
...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

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Make safe and show your neighbor. The Sul position works like a champ when its not practical or tactically sound to make a weapon safe or to even reholster. That position works with a properly setup slung long gun as well.

Public ranges can be perfectly fine, IF the range master takes an active role in watching out for the "city liberal with a gun" that just walked up to the range.:D



Do you have any evidence that city liberals with guns have more accidents than, say, trailer park rednecks with guns, or DEA agents with guns in schoolrooms?


Whats the matter with you? You throw shit like this out all the time and just expect everyone to "accept" it as fact. Gotta work both ways dont you think?
"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

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I'm pro second amendment and I carry. I have a concealed carry permit and depending on my mood I will open carry. Check out www.opencarry.org it will give you rundown of all the states and if you can open carry or not and what places you can/cannot carry. Here in WA State Government buildings and K-12 schools you cannot carry, other than that everywhere else is legal.

For those who have concealed carry permits check out www.carryconcealed.org/reciprocity.html and see what states honor your states CCP and what other states yours honors.


CSA #699 Muff #3804

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Make safe and show your neighbor. The Sul position works like a champ when its not practical or tactically sound to make a weapon safe or to even reholster. That position works with a properly setup slung long gun as well.

Public ranges can be perfectly fine, IF the range master takes an active role in watching out for the "city liberal with a gun" that just walked up to the range.:D



Do you have any evidence that city liberals with guns have more accidents than, say, trailer park rednecks with guns, or DEA agents with guns in schoolrooms?


Whats the matter with you? You throw shit like this out all the time and just expect everyone to "accept" it as fact. Gotta work both ways dont you think?


Accept what as "fact"? I asked him a question to justify HIS statement. You do recognize question marks, right?
...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

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Public ranges can be perfectly fine, IF the range master takes an active role in watching out for the "city liberal with a gun" that just walked up to the range.:D




LOL so true. I feel sorry for the employees at the indoor gun range I frequent. They have a perpetual look of fear on their faces due to having to deal with so many city liberals with a gun. Whenever I walk in, they're completely relaxed. :D
www.FourWheelerHB.com

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Public ranges can be perfectly fine, IF the range master takes an active role in watching out for the "city liberal with a gun" that just walked up to the range.:D




LOL so true. I feel sorry for the employees at the indoor gun range I frequent. They have a perpetual look of fear on their faces due to having to deal with so many city liberals with a gun. Whenever I walk in, they're completely relaxed. :D


Do you have any evidence that city liberals with guns have more accidents than, say, trailer park rednecks with guns, or DEA agents with guns in schoolrooms? Or is this just another cheap shot?
...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

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I live in southern California where the majority are city liberals so I actually don't have anything to compare it to. No trailer park rednecks around these parts.

That DEA agents you are reffering to is an idiot and should have lost his job. But I like how you throw him out there every once and a while.
www.FourWheelerHB.com

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So you support the idea of a guy carrying a weapon loaded almost anywhere (CHL)....But are afraid of a guy carrying a loaded weapon from his car to a firing line?????



Correct. It sounds contradictory, but it's not - the situations are different.

A CHL gun in a holster is not being handled, and thus is in very little danger of being accidentally discharged.

Someone walking up to a firing line at a gun range with a loaded gun, is ready and expecting to shoot that gun. This is most dangerous during a cease-fire when people are downrange checking and posting targets. If someone walks up and lays a loaded gun on a bench, while people are downrange - that's pointing a loaded gun at people. That's why ranges have rules against uncasing guns while people are downrange during a cease fire. The same reason why guns are removed from the line and there is no handling of firearms during a cease fire. It's just bad for safety.

I've personally seen someone walk up with an M1A (M14) while a kid was downrange changing targets. The rifle had a magazine inserted, safety off and bolt closed. That was bad enough - you couldn't tell if it was loaded, but it might have been. But then to make matters worse, he laid it on a bench, barrel pointed downrange where the kid was, and started fiddling with it. At that point I stepped in myself and had him point the barrel upward, make the gun safe by opening the bolt, removing the magazine, and engaging the safety, then putting the rifle in the rack behind the firing line.

Yes, this was a public range, and you sometimes see this kind of ignorance there. But you have to speak up, or something bad can happen.

Bringing loaded guns to the firing line, where lots of other people are around, maybe even downrange, is a bad idea.

Load them only when you're actually ready to shoot, when the cease fire has ended, and the all-clear given.
Sounds like you'd make a good range officer. My range is mostley private. Lots of cops. Nobody bothers anybody unless you're doing something stupid which I've never seen. Come visit us. http://rockpilesteel.com/;)A little video from our range>http://madtrigger.net/rockpilesteel/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=19&Itemid=32
I hold it true, whate'er befall;
I feel it, when I sorrow most;
'Tis better to have loved and lost
Than never to have loved at all.

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Correct. It sounds contradictory, but it's not - the situations are different.



Not really. Either you trust people not to be stupid, or you don't.

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A CHL gun in a holster is not being handled, and thus is in very little danger of being accidentally discharged.



In the Army we carried weapons locked and loaded all the time and never had an AD. Therefore, if the guy uses his head, there is little chance of a carried weapon firing.

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The rifle had a magazine inserted, safety off and bolt closed.



This person is an idiot.

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ut then to make matters worse, he laid it on a bench, barrel pointed downrange where the kid was, and started fiddling with it.



Even a bigger idiot. And that person would not be shooting with us.

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Load them only when you're actually ready to shoot, when the cease fire has ended, and the all-clear given.



Then I suspect you don't trust people to carry a loaded gun either.

You have a double standard showing.
"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

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Apparently as a city-liberal stuck in the sociologically warped academia, you have lost your sense of humor!

Aggrandizing a statement while citing a satirical stereotype: that's a generalized basis for much of the humor on the internet, as well as my very dry humor.

Good luck with laughing someday, hope it works for you. We can have a tea party on the ceiling when it happens.

:D

John please reference the following diagram in regards to the above: http://blogs.technet.com/photos/gray_knowlton/images/2998979/original.aspx

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

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I don't trust fuck all with a loaded or unloaded firearm until they show me they can handle a gun safely. Army or not, if you pull out a firearm for a little show and tell action, I expect you to check the chamber prior to handing the weapon to me or anyone else. And hand it over in such a fashion that the person receiving the weapon can confirm the chamber is empty.
www.FourWheelerHB.com

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I don't trust fuck all with a loaded or unloaded firearm until they show me they can handle a gun safely.



Which is why you are not allowed to shoot at our private ranges till we actually trust you not to act stupid.

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Army or not, if you pull out a firearm for a little show and tell action, I expect you to check the chamber prior to handing the weapon to me or anyone else.



Me pulling out a weapon to shoot it, or put it on the table is a FAR cry from giving it to you to look at.

You should know that those two instances are totally different.
"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

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I live in southern California where the majority are city liberals so I actually don't have anything to compare it to. No trailer park rednecks around these parts.

That DEA agents you are reffering to is an idiot and should have lost his job. But I like how you throw him out there every once and a while.



OK, so it WAS just a cheap shot. No prob.:)
...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

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My point was there is a certain way to act as a shooter if you don't want to be regarded as unsafe. If you shoot at a private range and the only people who can shoot there are proven to be safe then walking up the firing line with a loaded and saftied weapon is not a big deal. But at a public range.....
www.FourWheelerHB.com

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I live in southern California where the majority are city liberals so I actually don't have anything to compare it to. No trailer park rednecks around these parts.

That DEA agents you are reffering to is an idiot and should have lost his job. But I like how you throw him out there every once and a while.



OK, so it WAS just a cheap shot. No prob.:)


Well I'm one of them so I can take all the cheap shots at them I like. ;)


Edited to add: Except I'm not liberal. I'm not conservative either for the record.
www.FourWheelerHB.com

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My point was there is a certain way to act as a shooter if you don't want to be regarded as unsafe.



And my point is there is safe, and then there is your version of safe...Following blanket rules and when those fail make new rules.

Johns example of the idiot on the range happened WHILE there were range rules in place.

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If you shoot at a private range and the only people who can shoot there are proven to be safe then walking up the firing line with a loaded and saftied weapon is not a big deal.



Hell, walk up with the gun off safety...As long as you don't have your finger on the trigger, you don't point it at anything you don't want to kill, and keep your brain on the damn weapon will not fire.

I'd rather have smart trained guy with a live weapon on fire than some idiot trying to follow a bunch of abject rules.

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But at a public range.....



Yes, you have to play by a bunch of rules that still do not prevent accidents...Much better in my mind to just avoid being around people who are idiots no matter how many rules are in place.

Training, not trigger locks.
"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

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Don't you see the irony in disparaging rules at a shooting range while you attend private ranges that don't allow anybody to do anything until they have proven themselves? That's a pretty significant rule if you ask me.



Proving yourself safe is not a rule. It is a demonstrated skill.
"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

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Don't you see the irony in disparaging rules at a shooting range while you attend private ranges that don't allow anybody to do anything until they have proven themselves? That's a pretty significant rule if you ask me.



Proving yourself safe is not a rule. It is a demonstrated skill.



This conversation reminds me of aerial gunnery school in the USMC. We went on our final gun run to demonstrate what we learned. Our instructor, who of course can't miss out on action, takes the last can of .50 cal. Once he was done he was suppose to clear and make safe the weapon which I thought I saw him do. About ten minutes later, while we are over the city, I see the instructor lean on the weapon, more specifically the butterfly trigger, and BAM! I just shook my head at the idiot. :S

:D
www.FourWheelerHB.com

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Don't you see the irony in disparaging rules at a shooting range while you attend private ranges that don't allow anybody to do anything until they have proven themselves? That's a pretty significant rule if you ask me.



Proving yourself safe is not a rule. It is a demonstrated skill.



So your rule is that you have to demonstrate a skill.
...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

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Don't you see the irony in disparaging rules at a shooting range while you attend private ranges that don't allow anybody to do anything until they have proven themselves? That's a pretty significant rule if you ask me.



Proving yourself safe is not a rule. It is a demonstrated skill.



So your rule is that you have to demonstrate a skill.




Isn't that what they do on .... uh nevermind
www.FourWheelerHB.com

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This conversation reminds me of aerial gunnery school in the USMC



Well, do you consider it wise to lean against a trigger of a weapon you didn't clear and make safe?

And I assume there was some rule about clearing a weapon that he just didn't follow?

So it just shows that rules are only as good as the people that follow them.

So given the choice of being around idiots with a lot of rules....Or heads up people and few rules....Which do you think is safer?
"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

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