0
akarunway

Ban pitbulls or guns?

Recommended Posts

Quote

Quote

Pit bulls are among them, your anectodal experience notwithstanding.



I disagree, as would most people with experience with pit bulls. If you are looking for an innately aggressive dog, check out Jack Russell Terriers. The challenge of ownership with them is to train them to be nice. Pit Bulls are innately gentle dogs; they just have great strength and size, making them appealing to assholes that want to train their dogs to be mean and aggressive.




pitbulls are also banned in oz....In NZ i knew breeders of both pitbulls and american pitbulls...

They can be nice as you like but they will always have the ability to turn...IMO if its got a lockjaw then its probably not the best animal to have around kids.

probably the only dog i would consider with lockjaw would be a staffy....
.....And you thought Kiwis couldn't fly!!!!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

Nope. Ban little mexican dogs. It probably wasn't documented. Weren't you the one that lived in an apartment building in Las Vegas?

Yeah. I decided Vegas sucked and came back to SoCal. Now. Out of Clark Co. Nevada is cool
I hold it true, whate'er befall;
I feel it, when I sorrow most;
'Tis better to have loved and lost
Than never to have loved at all.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

Quote

He's black ex vietnam vet.



Why / when did he stop being a vietnam vet?
Yeah. Thought about that after I posted. To lazy to go back and change it. Figured one of the assholes here would catch it.:P
I hold it true, whate'er befall;
I feel it, when I sorrow most;
'Tis better to have loved and lost
Than never to have loved at all.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

Quote

No offense, but you're still being an enabler.



I fail to see how you came to that conclusion. What am I enabling? Responsible dog ownership regardless of chosen breed? Not everyone is cut out to be a dog owner. That's not the fault of the dog any more than it is kids' fault when their parents fail to parent.



This has already been said 2 or 3 times now in this thread: it's not about responsible dog ownership, it's about the innate personality characteristics of this particular breed, generally speaking.

You've made it clear you don't agree. Fine - we aren't going to agree. I'm done.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

They can be nice as you like but they will always have the ability to turn...IMO if its got a lockjaw then its probably not the best animal to have around kids.

probably the only dog i would consider with lockjaw would be a staffy....



:S:S:S

It's BS like this that gives various canine breeds undeserved bad reputations. Pit Bulls cannot lock their jaws. Whoever told you otherwise is full of shit. Please inform yourself before spreading such FUD any further.

Some resources for factual information about pit bulls:

What is lock jaw in pit bulls why does it happen?

Pit Bull Fact vs. Legend

Pit Bull Breed Info

Breed Profile

"It is true that Pit Bulls grab and hold on. But what they most often grab and refuse to let go of is your heart, not your arm." -Vicki Hearne
Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

it's not about responsible dog ownership, it's about the innate personality characteristics of this particular breed, generally speaking.



"Pit Bulls are one of the most stable people-friendly dogs in existence. The National Canine Temperament Testing Association tested 122 breeds, and Pit Bulls placed the 4th highest with a 95% passing rate!"

Some dogs with inferior temperament than the Pit Bull according to American Temperament Test Society test results (not an exhaustive list):

AMERICAN ESKIMO
AUSTRALIAN CATTLE DOG
AUSTRALIAN KELPIE
AUSTRALIAN SHEPHERD
AUSTRALIAN TERRIER
BASENJI
BEAGLE
BEARDED COLLIE
BELGIAN SHEEPDOG
BLOODHOUND
BORDER COLLIE
BULLDOG
BULLMASTIFF
CHIHUAHUA
CHINESE SHAR-PEI
CHOW CHOW
COCKER SPANIEL
COLLIE
DACHSHUND (5 of 6 varieties)
DALMATIAN
DOBERMAN PINSCHER
GREAT DANE
GREYHOUND
JACK RUSSELL TERRIER
LHASA APSO
MINIATURE POODLE
MINIATURE SCHNAUZER
OLD ENGLISH SHEEPDOG
POMERANIAN
RAT TERRIER
RHODESIAN RIDGEBACK
ROTTWEILER
SAINT BERNARD
SAMOYED
SHETLAND SHEEPDOG
SHIH TZU
STANDARD SCHNAUZER
TOY POODLE
YORKSHIRE TERRIER


The breed does not have any innate human aggressive qualities. Please do some research before claiming otherwise. The Alabama Supreme Court found in Sheila Tack vs Huntsville that pit bulls were not inherently more aggressive than other dog breeds. From another case, City of Toledo v. Paul Tellings:

Much evidence was presented that pit bulls which have not been trained to be aggressive are highly obedient, eager-to-please, good family pets. Jed Mignano, a Toledo Humane Society cruelty investigator, testified that pit bulls had been taken in at the shelter, did not require special cages or treatment, and were adopted out without problems. He further stated that he had never been bitten by a pit bull and did not experience them to be "vicious" in comparison to other breeds. The state's expert, Dr. Borchelt, testified that he had never been bitten by a pit bull, that his investigations for housing complaints against pit bulls in New York did not reveal any vicious pit bulls, and that most pit bulls brought to animal shelters were adopted out without hesitation. Karla Hamlin testified that some pit bulls taken into the Lucas County Dog Pound exhibited aggressive behavior, chewing on mesh fencing and through aluminum water buckets. She acknowledged, however, that she had never been bitten by a pit bull and did not think pit bulls, as a breed, were any more likely to bite or to fight than other dogs.


From The Truth About Pit Bulls:

"It is estimated that there are 60,000 Pit Bulls in the City of Chicago alone. This number is so high because people are breeding them for the wrong reasons. Most of them are living in hostile surroundings. It is an amazing testimony to the breed that although 95% of these animals suffer abuse/neglect, we rarely hear of any problems. One analogy is, if there was a sudden increase of people being injured by red cars, would we ban red cars? No! common sense would dictate that red is more popular color choice."
Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

Pepper spray only causes a temporary irritation. You can use it when you need to as a deterrent.
It is better than any of the alternatives when you are confronted by an aggressive dog.



Yeah, but I would still feel horrible for doing that to a dog when it's not the dog's fault that its owner is being irresponsible. I keep thinking I should say something to the owners when this happens, but I don't know what to day. I'm sure they already realize it's illegal to let their dogs run loose in this area, so until they get a citation (or see their dog get pepper-sprayed, or worse) then I assume they'll just keep doing it.

But it's causing me a lot of anxiety that I can't feel safe walking in my own neighborhood, so I need to figure out something to do about it. Obviously, the sound of a gun being fired is a good way to frighten dogs away. I wonder if there is any (legal) way to make such a sound without actually firing a gun?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
But it's causing me a lot of anxiety that I can't feel safe walking in my own neighborhood, so I need to figure out something to do about it. Obviously, the sound of a gun being fired is a good way to frighten dogs away. I wonder if there is any (legal) way to make such a sound without actually firing a gun
Quote



I would just go up to the owner and tell them how you feel. If they don't like what you have to say, so what. Really, pepper spray is not mean. But you can always try feeding the dog treats and make it your friend.

_________________________________________

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote



But it's causing me a lot of anxiety that I can't feel safe walking in my own neighborhood, so I need to figure out something to do about it. Obviously, the sound of a gun being fired is a good way to frighten dogs away. I wonder if there is any (legal) way to make such a sound without actually firing a gun

Quote



I would just go up to the owner and tell them how you feel. If they don't like what you have to say, so what. Really, pepper spray is not mean. But you can always try feeding the dog treats and make it your friend.

_________________________________________




They love baloney sammiches!:D Make it a big one... gives you more time to make your getaway.:)

Chuck

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

Its falling on deaf ears, its hard to break a taboo.

I have grown up around dogs and completely agree with your argument.



Sadly, you're probably right. Facts don't stand much chance against media sensationalism. It's unfortunate so many people cling to their ignorance so enthusiastically.


* * * * *

"In my opinion, Pit bulls are the least likely to be human aggressive. On the whole, you have to do a lot of work to make them aggressive to people."

--Sue Frisch, Dessin Animal Shelter manager


Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

So you have on one side the neighbors who run to you when there is a power blackout because you have a gun and on the other side you have a guy who scared off dogs with a gun.

Wow, you make convincing arguments about gun ownership.



So, you don't see the potential utility of a gun when a vicious dog charges at you on the street, huh?

You also don't see that maybe the guy was actually trying to avoid having to fire a lethal shot, so he gave the "scare" shot a try? (Although what the hell he was doing having a gun loaded with a BLANK I'll never figure out. EVER. :S)

I find it amazing, truly amazing, that you are implying that saving oneself from death by dog mauling is a bad argument for gun ownership. :S I suppose the guy should have, um, gotten on his cellular phone and called the police, right? Asked the dog to hold off for a few minutes until the cops got there to settle the dispute?
Spirits fly on dangerous missions
Imaginations on fire

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

Funny that you should post that. I'm sitting here right now trying to figure out what I should do about the problem of people letting their dogs go without a leash in our neighborhood, and this police report came up:

It's too bad that the other guy was accidentally shot, but why the hell do people think it's OK to let their dogs run loose? I've gotten to where I'm afraid to go for walks in my own neighborhood - where people are supposed to have their dogs on a leash, but they often don't. Many times when I go for a walk, some big-ass dog will come running up to me, stopping about a foot in front of me, barking its head off, while the owner tries to call him back, saying, "Oh, don't worry; he's a nice dog." Yeah, well I really don't want to be the person to get mauled before you realize that your dog isn't so fucking nice. (Sorry, I've been pretty pissed off about this lately.)

Rich keeps telling me to carry pepper spray around and spray any dog that does that to me, but I really don't want to hurt some dog just because its owner is careless. So I'm probably going to call the city and find out what can be done. (Any suggestions?)



I want to ask you, have you ever given thought to exactly what you would do if one of these dogs decided to not stop a foot from you, but instead leapt at your throat and would not break off his attack no matter how hard you tried to pummel it?

I mean, what I read from your post is that you stand there and hope that he dog won't be a true mauler. That is no kind of plan. [:/]

You went on to say that you don't want to hurt a dog with pepper spray -- so I assume that for you, shooting an attacking dog would be out of the question.

I don't mean to condescend, I mean this simply as an objective observation: you appear to be someone who has pre-decided that a dog's life is worth more to you than yours is. I can think of no ontehr way to look at it when you have actually been charged by mean dogs and all you did was stand there and fortunately they finally stopped, rather than beginning the process of taking large, ragged red chunks out of you.

Quote

And I pretty much never hear of problems with guns in our area. It's interesting that the rare occasion when someone gets shot happens to be because the shooter was only trying to scare off someone's big-ass dogs that shouldn't have been running loose.



You've recognized that irresponsible people exist who will let their dogs run loose. You have even been accosted. And yet, what is your plan for the next time? Hope all over again that this is another dog that won't carry out the mauling? I encourage you to, as you contemplate this, do your best to imagine what it must feel like to die by having a dog tear your flesh off of you piece by piece. Imagine thinking, panicked, "Holy shit, that's a piece of my arm in his mouth! Those are three of my fucking FINGERS!!

They say that there are none so blind as those who will not see. In this case, I think that applies. Not to put too fine a point on it, but you have already been quasi-attacked by loose dogs, and the experiences still have not taught you what they should have.

I wish you luck dealing with your neighborhood dog situation, but you should neither have to remain in your house because of the dogs running wild nor should you have to venture out and HOPE no dogs attack you. The difference is preparedness, and a willingness to defend yourself.


Spirits fly on dangerous missions
Imaginations on fire

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

[The breed does not have any innate human aggressive qualities. Please do some research before claiming otherwise.




When gun owners do this kind of post, we are chastised for using NRA-supported studies to bolster pro-gun positions, and the "findings" are immediately cast into doubt. Why would this be any more valid about dogs?
Spirits fly on dangerous missions
Imaginations on fire

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

But it's causing me a lot of anxiety that I can't feel safe walking in my own neighborhood, so I need to figure out something to do about it. Obviously, the sound of a gun being fired is a good way to frighten dogs away. I wonder if there is any (legal) way to make such a sound without actually firing a gun?



Do you live in a place where it would be illegal, and get you into trouble, to have defended yourself with a gun against such a dog, were you to do so? Only if you live in a place like MA, CA, or IL where you would have to jeopardize your freedom just to have the means to defend against an attack would I excuse the failure to obtain such means.

You want to benefit from the sound of a gunfire without having to fire a gun? I guess you could always call a cop when a dog attacks you, and when he gets there with his gun, he'll fire it. Mission accomplished. (Of course, his shot will be fired at the dog...)
Spirits fly on dangerous missions
Imaginations on fire

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

Although what the hell he was doing having a gun loaded with a BLANK I'll never figure out. EVER.



You didn't read it very carefully, did you? He didn't have a BLANK in the handgun. He THOUGHT he had a BLANK in the gun and he was WRONG. Responsible gun ownership at its best. :S
Owned by Remi #?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Literally 98% of the Pits I've been around are kept outside, underfed and tied to logging chains. The owners have just enough to keep it from being cruelty. They fight the dogs, but ACO isn't able to prove it. I encounter around 75 pits a day at work.
--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

Quote

i have a (dangerous) big dog too.



Why??

For the life of me, I just do not understand people who own dogs that they know are dangerous. No dog owner can be 100% careful 100% of the time. A gun owner can put a trigger lock on his gun. The gun won't try to escape the lock. Many dogs do try to escape their leashes or confinement. Even if the owner forgets to lock the gun, the gun won't operate itself, it requires a human to operate it. But accidentally leave your fence gate unlocked just one time, and a child could easily be killed. I just don't understand the mentality.


first of all, i dont have a gate she could escape from. i spent lots of money on training her. dont get me wrong, just the fact she weighs in around 70lbs and has teeth makes her "dangerous". its a dobermann-rottweiler mix. both are watchdogs, one race being extremely cautious and attentive, while the other's pretty calm but very protective. for these facts, she makes a great companion!

i own her for six years now. i know her fairly well, she's a big puppy, adorable with the people she chooses to like. she has some quirks that i'm well aware off. if i'm outside after dark, i keep her on the leash as it doesnt take much to trigger her then.. she's not too fonds of kids, so if children are around, i keep her at my side. mostly she doesnt care for them and just walks away and grawls if she feels intrigued.

when i first got her from the animal shelter, she'd go after every dark skinned person or child. i fixed that. previous owner shot himself (i'm always kidding that this was probably because of the dog), so i guess she stayed inside much as depressed people dont get outside a lot.

everyone that meets her loves the dog. she's cute, playful and what not. she's got a good home with me. she's not a danger to no-one. i take care of that, i take responsibility. a lot more people should do that.. :|
“Some may never live, but the crazy never die.”
-Hunter S. Thompson
"No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try."
-Yoda

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

oh, and the only time i've ever biten was by a german shepherd. first he went for my hand/arm, the second snap missed my balls by an inch or two. i was a kid of 10 years at the time. and honestly, it was probably my fault. dont try to pet a dog that is alone attached to a leash.. :S

oh, and my parents always had dachshound. one of them in peticular, if you were a male stranger, shouldnt have turned his back on him, he'd get your heels right away.

then i used to know this american staffordshire. HUGE animal. i'd pat my chest and he'd jump on me and hold on, so i could have a little dance with him. not a lot of dogs out there that have that much of trust..

its only minor about the breed, mostly its the upbringing.

people are just stupid morons that are scared shitless of dogs for no good reason and the media picks up on it.

sometimes i wish we'd be back in the stone-ages, survival of the fittest. REAL problems to deal with.. :)

“Some may never live, but the crazy never die.”
-Hunter S. Thompson
"No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try."
-Yoda

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Actually from what I've read what you are saying about Pitbull's is accurate... most of them are not agressive towards people.

What I've heard is that they have a tendancy towards agression towards other dogs.


This quote is from the Pit Bull Fact vs. Legend site...
-Are Pit Bulls naturally aggressive towards humans?
While many Pit Bulls do tend to be aggressive towards other DOGS (as are most terriers), the normal, well raised Pit Bull has NO human-aggressive tendencies! In fact, human-aggression was actually bred out of the breed.


and is reinforced by the behavior of a Pit Bull that broke loose from a tether while I was on a walk with Karma when she was 4 months old... the dog ran three houses down the street and ignored me complete when I placed myself between Karma and the quickly approaching dog. The dog grabbed a hold of Karma... who submitted imediately...

fortunately no long term physical damage was done... and Frankly I don't blame the dog (but just because the pit bull isn't agressive towards people it doesn't mean that agression towards other dogs is acceptable, I know that I wouldn't be acceptable of that sort of behaivor from Karma)... I do think the owner was irresponsible for not maintaining control over his dog.
Livin' on the Edge... sleeping with my rigger's wife...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

0