birdlike 0
Do you think it was a mistake that China was awarded the Olympics?
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birdlike, in Speakers Corner
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QuoteIf I meant it or wanted it to have an effect on the sponsors, I would have long ago tried to get some sort of "movement" going, and I did not. In fact, it wasn't until not very long ago that I even knew that China would be hosting the '08 Summer Olympics.
Well, there's your problem. That decision was made in 2001, and was pretty much expected after they lost the 2004 bid. I was in Beijing when the count down was for the decision, not the start of the games, and had they lost again, they would have been pissed. There certainly was opposition on grounds of human rights, and they did nix the '04 bid, but it was going to happen sooner than later.
Does China 'deserve' to host an Olympics? Since they have 20% of the world's population and collect a healthy chunk of the medals, I don't see how you can refuse indefinitely. Of course, if a bunch of athletes go down with smog induced asthma, it won't come back anytime soon. But we're well overdue for a non 1st world nation besides Greece to host.
Watching the games puts NO Revenue Chinas way, so how does boycotting the tellie help?
Crab some beer and crisps and enjoy the spectical.
Our athletes have soent years training for this (and other) event so supporting them does not imply support for any of their countries politics.
(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome
Crab some beer and crisps and enjoy the spectical.
Our athletes have soent years training for this (and other) event so supporting them does not imply support for any of their countries politics.
(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome
BillyVance 34
Nah, I don't think it was a mistake, never mind that China is a communist country. I do think it was a mistake for us to boycott the 1980 Moscow Olympics and let the Soviets take most of the medals. Thus cheapening our medal take in the 1984 Los Angeles Olympics when the Soviets reciprocated.
The Olympics should never be politicized. It's unfair to the athletes. The opening ceremonies, while I missed it, has been characterized as the greatest show of all time, so you can bet that China pulled out all the stops to get it ready, but maybe they went overboard throwing all the protesters in jail.
I guess it remains to be seen on whether this will be one of the greatest Olympics of all, and conditions could be better as far as the smog goes. But they did try.
I hate communism, but hey, better it be China hosting it, than those fucknuggets in North Korea or Cuba. 
"Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban
billvon 2,380
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>I should have made it clear that this is for my own personal satisfaction.
No problem, then. Watch whatever you like.
>I am doing this so that I know that I didn't help.
Like I said, if you buy Chinese made goods (i.e. shop at Wal-Mart or similar discount store) you are helping them far more than you would by watching the Olympics. Watching the olympics doesn't really hurt or help them.
>Yes, and I also believe that we--our nation, its ideals, its efforts--are
>at least 8 times more worthy of that support than China . . .
Then we are at parity with them as they host this Olympics.
No problem, then. Watch whatever you like.
>I am doing this so that I know that I didn't help.
Like I said, if you buy Chinese made goods (i.e. shop at Wal-Mart or similar discount store) you are helping them far more than you would by watching the Olympics. Watching the olympics doesn't really hurt or help them.
>Yes, and I also believe that we--our nation, its ideals, its efforts--are
>at least 8 times more worthy of that support than China . . .
Then we are at parity with them as they host this Olympics.
Quote
The Olympics should never be politicized. It's unfair to the athletes. The opening ceremonies, while I missed it, has been characterized as the greatest show of all time, so you can bet that China pulled out all the stops to get it ready, but maybe they went overboard throwing all the protesters in jail.
There's a story going around that the TV broadcast of the opening ceremonies used a computer generated fireworks show rather than the actual stuff.
Sorta Yes, Sorta No... as in WTF does it matter now? Can't change it!!?? 
Lucky... 0
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>I think that the international community should never have awarded the financial windfall that is the Olympic Games to a country like China, with its disgraceful, deplorable oppression.
http://www.amnestyusa.org/abolish/juveniles.html
Since 2000, only five countries in the world are known to have executed juvenile offenders: China, Democratic Republic of Congo (DRC), Iran, Pakistan, and the United States. Pakistan and China have abolished the juvenile death penalty, but there have been problems in nationwide compliance with the law.
You're right, those are some deplorable nations, maybe you're onto sometheng. <--- intentional misspelling to give birdman something for which to misdirect.
In the past five years, the United States has executed 13 juvenile offenders. Eight of these executions took place in the state of Texas. The rest of the world combined carried out five such executions. The United States accounts for four of the last five known juvenile offender executions in the last two years.
"I don't think we should be proud of the fact that the United States is the world leader in the execution of child offenders." –U.S. Senator Russ Feingold, November 11, 1999
But of course he's a sissy-ass, faggot-loving Democrat, don't mind him.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>The international community condemns the U.S. for abuses of a few terrorist suspects in Gitmo, but throws billions of dollars at China in the form of hosting the Olympics. That's sick.
What's sick is you complaining about while using China-made goods. Now go ahead and deny it, you can't avoid it. SO you've never been to Walmart?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>And now I just read here http://www.cnn.com/...cs.murder/index.html about Americans being murdered and wounded in China, right there at the site of the Olympics. I know that an individual murder could happen anywhere, no matter what country hosts the Olympics; it's just that this news cemented for me the feeling that it was wrong to give the Olympics to China.
And foreigners don't get murdered over here? One non-related event from a nut and that represents the whole? That borders on racism, as you infer the people of China are as corrput as their government.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>What are your feelings about it?
Wash the windows to your own house before pointing out spots in other's windows.
http://www.amnestyusa.org/abolish/juveniles.html
Since 2000, only five countries in the world are known to have executed juvenile offenders: China, Democratic Republic of Congo (DRC), Iran, Pakistan, and the United States. Pakistan and China have abolished the juvenile death penalty, but there have been problems in nationwide compliance with the law.
You're right, those are some deplorable nations, maybe you're onto sometheng. <--- intentional misspelling to give birdman something for which to misdirect.
In the past five years, the United States has executed 13 juvenile offenders. Eight of these executions took place in the state of Texas. The rest of the world combined carried out five such executions. The United States accounts for four of the last five known juvenile offender executions in the last two years.
"I don't think we should be proud of the fact that the United States is the world leader in the execution of child offenders." –U.S. Senator Russ Feingold, November 11, 1999
But of course he's a sissy-ass, faggot-loving Democrat, don't mind him.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>The international community condemns the U.S. for abuses of a few terrorist suspects in Gitmo, but throws billions of dollars at China in the form of hosting the Olympics. That's sick.
What's sick is you complaining about while using China-made goods. Now go ahead and deny it, you can't avoid it. SO you've never been to Walmart?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>And now I just read here http://www.cnn.com/...cs.murder/index.html about Americans being murdered and wounded in China, right there at the site of the Olympics. I know that an individual murder could happen anywhere, no matter what country hosts the Olympics; it's just that this news cemented for me the feeling that it was wrong to give the Olympics to China.
And foreigners don't get murdered over here? One non-related event from a nut and that represents the whole? That borders on racism, as you infer the people of China are as corrput as their government.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>What are your feelings about it?
Wash the windows to your own house before pointing out spots in other's windows.
Lucky... 0
Hey Bird**** (the asterisks represent like), a guy in the 11th post to this thread made a spelling error...... just helpin a brother out.... u can't let him get away with it. 
birdlike 0
QuoteThe Olympics should never be politicized. It's unfair to the athletes. The opening ceremonies, while I missed it, has been characterized as the greatest show of all time, so you can bet that China pulled out all the stops to get it ready, but maybe they went overboard throwing all the protesters in jail.
To say nothing of the fact that people starve even as the Chinese communists put on a lavish show to bring themselves glory and adoration. Oh, let's not mention the bulldozing of homes to make way for the construction! "Out of the way, peasant!
QuoteI guess it remains to be seen on whether this will be one of the greatest Olympics of all, and conditions could be better as far as the smog goes. But they did try.
What, in the last few weeks?
My point was not about whether they would or did try. It was about the idiotic lack of foresight of those who decided to give China the games. They should have known that the pollution problem would not get cleared up. After all, if they could eliminate pollution for the Olympics, why wouldn't they do it just for the general good of doing it?
Spirits fly on dangerous missions
Imaginations on fire
Imaginations on fire
crozby 0
QuoteIt was about the idiotic lack of foresight of those who decided to give China the games. They should have known that the pollution problem would not get cleared up.
Not just the polution. Other weird shit lie the fact that on day 1 the cyclists were complaining that their 6 hour ride was a nightmare because there were no spectators, just police and security guards lining the route. The whole thing is fucked up.
nerdgirl 0
QuoteWhat are your feelings about it?
This thread is evidence of conversations – even in the virtual – that are unlikely to have occurred had the lens of Olympics not brought the world’s focus … & Americans’ facilitated by the commercial media … to Beijing.
QuoteThe international community condemns the U.S. for abuses of a few terrorist suspects in Gitmo, but throws billions of dollars at China in the form of hosting the Olympics. That's sick.
(The internet is replete with depictions of the Chinese government's abuses of human rights--and now there are human rights being abused specifically related to China hosting the Olympics, like homes being bulldozed and familes made homeless to make room for Olympic buildings.)
Who do you think those myriad depictions on the internet are from?
The international community.
Do you remember the protests associated with the Olympic torch relay in Paris, in London, in Greece, in Malaysia, in Thailand, in San Francisco, in northern India (where many Tibetans exiles have fled), or in South Korea? (Concur with many that protesting the torch relay is not the most effective tactic but one cannot deny that there *were* protests internationally.)
Folks worldwide … & quite a few across America … have been highlighting & protesting Chinese human rights abuses in Tibet (especially Tibet), in Xianjang, and against Fulan Gang members, restrictions on non-state sponsored churches; environmental degradation; forced displacement of millions through the Three Gorges Dam Project (long before the Olympics); ignoring the Chinese AIDS epidemic until recently; agianst China's tacit support of the genocide in Darfur; and repressive control of internet access for years. If you have been on almost any American campus in the last 10 years you would have to make substantive effort to *not* have heard vociferous protest of Chinese cultural genocide and human rights abuses in Tibet. International outcry against China is not new to many.
Would I like to see more attention in the US to foreign affairs in the US? Yes.
Would I like to see more attention in the US to human rights issues internationally and domestically (even if OCONUS)? Yes.
VR/Marg
Act as if everything you do matters, while laughing at yourself for thinking anything you do matters.
Tibetan Buddhist saying
birdlike 0
Forgive me if it sounds cold and callous, but I have something to say about the Olympics or anything else achieving what would ordinarily be thought of as "positive change" in China.
Maybe I don't want things to get "better" in China. Maybe I should be happy that we gave the Olympics to China, which probably regards the gesture as an approbation of how they are doing things.
The fact is, if China conquers its AIDS problem, if it begins to allow more and more people to do and buy as they wish, the whole situation over there (what, nearly 2 billion people?) is going to cause some serious damage to the world. SERIOUS. As it is, China is rivaling the U.S. for consumption... and when it finally does pass us, it is gonna fuckin' BLOW past us on its way to doubling or tripling us, yeah?
With the way overpopulation is projected to devastate the world in very little time, one of the best things we could do would be to NOT try to "help" mortality rates, folks. We are gonna see our "prosperity" leave us with a burned out husk of a planet before long.
Maybe I don't want things to get "better" in China. Maybe I should be happy that we gave the Olympics to China, which probably regards the gesture as an approbation of how they are doing things.
The fact is, if China conquers its AIDS problem, if it begins to allow more and more people to do and buy as they wish, the whole situation over there (what, nearly 2 billion people?) is going to cause some serious damage to the world. SERIOUS. As it is, China is rivaling the U.S. for consumption... and when it finally does pass us, it is gonna fuckin' BLOW past us on its way to doubling or tripling us, yeah?
With the way overpopulation is projected to devastate the world in very little time, one of the best things we could do would be to NOT try to "help" mortality rates, folks. We are gonna see our "prosperity" leave us with a burned out husk of a planet before long.
Spirits fly on dangerous missions
Imaginations on fire
Imaginations on fire
crozby 0
More fucked-up-ness.
The opening ceremony fireworks were faked (bad visibility being the reason the real ones were not shown).
Plus one of the stars of the show, a little girl, lip-synched a solo which was actually sung live by a different girl considered too ugly to put in front of the world.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/7556058.stm
The opening ceremony fireworks were faked (bad visibility being the reason the real ones were not shown).
Plus one of the stars of the show, a little girl, lip-synched a solo which was actually sung live by a different girl considered too ugly to put in front of the world.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/7556058.stm
billvon 2,380
>the whole situation over there (what, nearly 2 billion people?) is going to
>cause some serious damage to the world. SERIOUS.
Agreed. To put it another way, they will start doing more damage to the world than we are currently doing.
However, that falls squarely under the old biblical maxim "why do you look at the speck in your brother’s eye, but do not consider the plank in your own eye?" We have absolutely no right to criticize them for something we are far worse at than they are. We pollute more, we consume more, we generate more CO2 and we use more raw materials. An average US car gets far worse gas mileage than an average Chinese car.
And where we _have_ made improvements (air quality for example) it's come only after a long struggle against people who prefer profits over clean air. China will no doubt have a similar struggle; it is to our advantage to nudge them in the right direction.
In other areas, it is to our advantage to fix the problems we are having (overconsumption of oil, pollution, energy) before we start criticizing others for doing what we ourselves are unwilling to do. No one listens to hypocrites.
And at a secondary level, best pray that the third largest nuclear power in the world never gets desperate enough to use them.
>With the way overpopulation is projected to devastate the world in very
>little time, one of the best things we could do would be to NOT try to "help"
>mortality rates, folks.
1) Mortality rates are not the same as birthrates. Pollution that kills people in their early 40's does very little to slow down birthrate.
2) The best thing we can do is stop devastating the world. That is a much better solution than hoping people (including your own countrymen) die.
>cause some serious damage to the world. SERIOUS.
Agreed. To put it another way, they will start doing more damage to the world than we are currently doing.
However, that falls squarely under the old biblical maxim "why do you look at the speck in your brother’s eye, but do not consider the plank in your own eye?" We have absolutely no right to criticize them for something we are far worse at than they are. We pollute more, we consume more, we generate more CO2 and we use more raw materials. An average US car gets far worse gas mileage than an average Chinese car.
And where we _have_ made improvements (air quality for example) it's come only after a long struggle against people who prefer profits over clean air. China will no doubt have a similar struggle; it is to our advantage to nudge them in the right direction.
In other areas, it is to our advantage to fix the problems we are having (overconsumption of oil, pollution, energy) before we start criticizing others for doing what we ourselves are unwilling to do. No one listens to hypocrites.
And at a secondary level, best pray that the third largest nuclear power in the world never gets desperate enough to use them.
>With the way overpopulation is projected to devastate the world in very
>little time, one of the best things we could do would be to NOT try to "help"
>mortality rates, folks.
1) Mortality rates are not the same as birthrates. Pollution that kills people in their early 40's does very little to slow down birthrate.
2) The best thing we can do is stop devastating the world. That is a much better solution than hoping people (including your own countrymen) die.
rhys 0
Quoteif it begins to allow more and more people to do and buy as they wish, the whole situation over there (what, nearly 2 billion people?) is going to cause some serious damage to the world.
China has been a civilisation for thousands of years, they are doing quite well to only have this number of people. they have made very positve changes to birth rates and India will soon pass them as the most populated country.
The USA has only been around a few hundred years, and has almost half a billion people! I do not need to repeat the things bill mentioned above...
You can be sure that when a high proportion of chinese drive cars, they will be of low emmision and will be mostly less than 1300cc or zero emmission.
you wont see too many SUV's unless they are off road!
"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix
Quotethey have made very positve changes to birth rates
Positive as in lowering total population, yes. But in the long term, it will have devastating effects.
- peasants used to rely on their daughter in law as a "retirement" plan. Once they were too old to work the fields, the daughter in law (who would move in upon marrying the elder son) would take over and care for the elder in laws (and be treated as a slave, really). Now, with the one child policy, having a daughter means spending lonesome years...
- as poor people favor having a son (not only to carry the lineage, but to ensure a "retirement" policy), there has been way too many abortions due to a woman carrying a girl. The male population in the younger generation is reaching alarming proportions, which will have great consequences in 15 to 20 years
- there is a new society made of single children, who have a very different approach to life than children with siblings. They are spoiled to death, and find themselves ill prepared to care for themselves in the "real world.
QuoteYou can be sure that when a high proportion of chinese drive cars, they will be of low emmision and will be mostly less than 1300cc or zero emmission.
That I believe (and hope) will hold true, based on what I see in the streets of Shanghai today
"For once you have tasted Absinthe you will walk the earth with your eyes turned towards the gutter, for there you have been and there you will long to return."
I would love to read, in a few weeks (how long do the games last, anyway?) that the American athletes kicked ass. But I'll wait to read it in the newspaper. I certainly won't watch it on t.v.
But I need to tell you this background: I long ago realized that the nobility seems all but gone from athletics. I am completely jaded about it. You can't open a sports section without reading about athletes to whom the dignity of competition means nothing anymore, who are willing to whore themselves to winning, dope themselves or inject themselves to win.
Modern athletics is full of cheaters--perhaps not all, but enough that all of them now suffer the taint, in my eyes.
And it also seems to me that modern athletes get into competition from the get-go because they have the dream of the multi-million-dollar endorsement contracts, not the dream of excelling at their sport.
It's not an axiom; it's just what I see too much of. Like I said, I'm jaded.
Imaginations on fire
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