SCOTUS: Gitmo detainees can go to civil courts

[kallend 1,927]

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Evidence of this?

REPORT ON GUANTANAMO DETAINEES
A Profile of 517 Detainees through Analysis of Department of Defense Data

By Mark Denbeaux Professor, Seton Hall University School of Law, Joshua Denbeaux, Esq. Denbeaux & Denbeaux David Gratz, John Gregorek, Matthew Darby, Shana Edwards, Shane Hartman, Daniel Mann and Helen Skinner Students, Seton Hall University School of Law
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2THE GUANTANAMO DETAINEES: THE GOVERNMENT’S STORY Professor Mark Denbeaux* and Joshua Denbeaux* An interim report

EXECUTIVE SUMMARY

The media and public fascination with who is detained at Guantanamo and why has been fueled in large measure by the refusal of the Government, on the grounds of national security, to provide much information about the individuals and the charges against them. The information available to date has been anecdotal and erratic, drawn largely from interviews with the few detainees who have been released or from statements or court filings by their attorneys in the pending habeas corpus proceedings that the Government has not declared “classified.” This Report is the first effort to provide a more detailed picture of who the Guantanamodetainees are, how they ended up there, and the purported bases for their enemy combatant designation. The data in this Report is based entirely upon the United States Government’s own documents.1

This Report provides a window into the Government’s success detaining only those that the President has called “the worst of the worst.” Among the data revealed by this Report:

1. Fifty-five percent (55%) of the detainees are not determined to have committed any hostile acts against the United States or its coalition allies.

2. Only 8% of the detainees were characterized as al Qaeda fighters. Of the remaining detainees, 40% have no definitive connection with al Qaeda at all and 18% are have no definitive affiliation with either al Qaeda or the Taliban.

3. The Government has detained numerous persons based on mere affiliations with a large number of groups that in fact, are not on the Department of Homeland Security terrorist watchlist. Moreover, the nexus between such a detainee and such organizations varies considerably. Eight percent are detained because they are deemed “fighters for;” 30% considered “members of;” a large majority – 60% -- are detained merely because they are “associated with” a group or groups the Government asserts are terrorist organizations. For 2% of the prisoners their nexus to any terrorist group is unidentified.

4. Only 5% of the detainees were captured by United States forces. 86% of the detainees were arrested by either Pakistan or the Northern Alliance and turned over to United Statescustody.

Footnote 1 See, Combatant Status Review Board Letters, Release date January 2005, February 2005, March 2005, April 2005 and the Final Release available at the Seton Hall Law School library, Newark, NJ.
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This 86% of the detainees captured by Pakistan or the Northern Alliance were handed over to the United States at a time in which the United States offered large bounties for capture of suspected enemies.

5. Finally, the population of persons deemed not to be enemy combatants – mostly Uighers – are in fact accused of more serious allegations than a great many persons still deemed to be enemy combatants.
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...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[normiss 754]

reeks of the Crime Line approach to the drug war here.
$1000 per tip when they first started. Lots of illegal searches with no arrests. Policy was promptly changed to require an actual conviction. Reporting dropped severly. Not so anonymous any longer either...

[rushmc 23]

Scalia argues the decision “breaks a chain of precedent as old as the common law that prohibits judicial inquiry into detentions of aliens abroad. It sets our military commanders the impossible task of proving to a civilian court, under whatever standards this court devises in the future, that evidence supports the confinement of each and every enemy prisoner.”

Chief Justice John G. Roberts Jr., Justice Clarence Thomas and Justice Samuel A. Alito Jr., agree with Scalia, criticizing what they call “the most generous set of procedural protections ever afforded aliens detained by this country as enemy combatants.”

Several prominent Republicans also disagree with the courts decision, including Republican candidate for president, John McCain, who says the court made "one of the worst decisions in the history of this country." Former House Speaker Newt Gingrich adds, the court will "cost us a city.”

“The nation will live to regret what the court has done,'' Scalia warns.

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[AWL71 0]

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Scalia argues the decision “breaks a chain of precedent as old as the common law that prohibits judicial inquiry into detentions of aliens abroad. It sets our military commanders the impossible task of proving to a civilian court, under whatever standards this court devises in the future, that evidence supports the confinement of each and every enemy prisoner.”

Chief Justice John G. Roberts Jr., Justice Clarence Thomas and Justice Samuel A. Alito Jr., agree with Scalia, criticizing what they call “the most generous set of procedural protections ever afforded aliens detained by this country as enemy combatants.”

Several prominent Republicans also disagree with the courts decision, including Republican candidate for president, John McCain, who says the court made "one of the worst decisions in the history of this country." Former House Speaker Newt Gingrich adds, the court will "cost us a city.”

“The nation will live to regret what the court has done,'' Scalia warns.

I could not agree more. This decision will cause the US lots of grief in the future.

The most terrifying words in the English language are: I'm from the government and I'm here to help.

[georgerussia 0]

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I could not agree more. This decision will cause the US lots of grief in the future.

Didn't some people say exactly the same when the govt/courts gave same rights to black and women?
Do you still agree with them?

* Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. *

[AWL71 0]

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I could not agree more. This decision will cause the US lots of grief in the future.

Didn't some people say exactly the same when the govt/courts gave same rights to black and women?
Do you still agree with them?

Ugh, no. And the issue you brought up has no correlation to the one being discussed.

The most terrifying words in the English language are: I'm from the government and I'm here to help.

[nerdgirl 0]

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I could not agree more. This decision will cause the US lots of grief in the future.

Didn't some people say exactly the same when the govt/courts gave same rights to black and women?
Do you still agree with them?

Ugh, no. And the issue you brought up has no correlation to the one being discussed.

I agree that Brown v. Board of Education, et al. is not a good historical analogy, not because there was any lack of criticism associated with it, but because it was a unanimous SCOTUS decision, it's not dealing with the Laws of War, and it's not a habeus corpus decision. While you are likely to disagree, I suspect Brown v. Board of Education, et al. had a lot more impact on Americans and American society than Boumediene v. Bush.

Justice Kennedy has asserted that there is no *clear* historical legal precedent. I’m not coming up with any specific historical ones either. Anyone?

One that is cited in the recent SCOTUS decision is Johnson v. Eisentrager, which involved the conviction of a group of Germans accused of aiding the Japanese (after Germany has officially surrendered) in actions against the US (a war crime) by a US military tribunal physically convened in China. The German nationals challenged the military ruling. The SCOTUS held that US federal courts had no jurisdiction. A key difference in that case was that the Germans were charged and convicted of specific crimes, whereas the Guantanamo detainees have neither been charged with, nor convicted of, any crime, while they are being held on land entirely within U.S. control (even tho’ it’s OCONUS).

Looking at it from the another perspective: a war-related SCOTUS ruling that technically was never overturned but is now regarded as a mistake (Pres Reagan apologized for the policy at question) is Korematsu v. United States, which upheld detention of Japanese Americans during WWII.

VR/Marg

Act as if everything you do matters, while laughing at yourself for thinking anything you do matters.
Tibetan Buddhist saying

[kelpdiver 2]

hmm, raises a nice question to those upset about the Court decision.

- Do you think the internment of Japanese Americans was legal and necessary?

[AWL71 0]

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hmm, raises a nice question to those upset about the Court decision.

- Do you think the internment of Japanese Americans was legal and necessary?

No I don't. I think that was a mistake.

I just don't think detainees in Guantuanomo Bay should have the right to have their case heard in a civil court. They should be charged and tried by the Military Justice system.

The most terrifying words in the English language are: I'm from the government and I'm here to help.

[livendive 8]

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I just don't think detainees in Guantuanomo Bay should have the right to have their case heard in a civil court. They should be charged and tried by the Military Justice system.

Why?

And why should the President (any President) be empowered to make such determinations without judicial oversight to review the legality of those decisions?

Blues,
Dave

"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)

[billvon 2,881]

>They should be charged and tried by the Military Justice system.

I would be fine with that, provided the military court follows the rules laid down by the Constitution.

[harryskydives 0]

The slippery slope theory:
Just want to introduce you to my squad:
Sgt Brown Heavy weapons specialist.
Sgt Jones light weapons specialist.
Sgt Smith Communications.
Sgt Lopez Demo and can fix what is broke.
Sgt Becker Medic
Two new Members Lt M Watters He is the New team leader JAG specialist, He has no combat experience, his speciality is Combatant rights.
WO K Ras He also has no combat experience but will help you with your daily shooters repot. And will call San Francisco, I mean, Washington to ask permissions before you can use explosives.
In the event that you capture any combatants that are not in a recognized uniform and have a military ID,
You can use you sat phone to call for a civilization Lawyer. Sorry air support will be too busy moving the civilian lawyers around, so no more medivac or emergency extraction.
Do not forget you must fill out a report that is reviewed by congress, as to the usage of any ammo, before you can be resupplied.
An do not forget to read the enemy their rights, and ask them to surrender before you fire on them

[billvon 2,881]

>Just want to introduce you to my squad:
>Sgt Brown Heavy weapons specialist.
>Sgt Jones light weapons specialist.
>Sgt Smith Communications.
>Sgt Lopez Demo and can fix what is broke.
>Sgt Becker Medic
>Two new Members Lt M Watters He is the New team leader JAG specialist,
>He has no combat experience, his speciality is Combatant rights.

Well, better than

Sgt Brown Heavy weapons specialist.
Sgt Jones light weapons specialist.
Sgt Smith Communications.
Sgt Lopez Demo and can fix what is broke
Sgt Becker Executioner. He finishes what Brown and Jones start.
Lt M Watters Torturer, Anatomical Specialist. Knows the right places.
Lt E Risko Torturer, Youth Specialist. Yeah, so they're kids. But what if it's a ticking time bomb that will destroy Manhattan?

[livendive 8]

Unless I'm mistaken, we're not at combat in Gitmo. There's a big difference between transporting a detainee from the front line and holding one for 5 or 6 years without charging him with any crime.

Blues,
Dave

"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)

[FreeflyChile 0]

This is not really furthering the debate, but while reading this thread, I just had this mental image of an adviser coming up to Bush as he's in the oval office doing his sudoku and Bush getting angry and telling the adviser

"Get me Colonel Jessup NOW!"

[harryskydives 0]

I also, believe they should be charged and tried by the Military Justice system. And quite a while back. Apparently many have, and have been released.

_____________________________________________________________________________
I would be fine with that, provided the military court follows the rules laid down by the Constitution "BV"
_________________________________________________________________________
detainees in Guantuanomo Bay should have the right to have their case heard in a civil court.
_________________________________________________________________________

Once you give enemy combatants Rights under our US Constitution and the right to a civil trial, the next step is: when do those rights start?.
Only after they have been turned over to a US controlled camp? once they have been captured by a US soldier? once they hook up a road side bomb intended for, but not necessarily used anginst, an American?

[kallend 1,927]

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Once you give ALLEGED enemy combatants Rights under our US Constitution and the right to a civil trial, the next step is: when do those rights start?.
Only after they have been turned over to a US controlled camp? once they have been captured by a US soldier? once they hook up a road side bomb intended for, but not necessarily used anginst, an American?

Fixed it. The military seems to have done a piss-poor job in separating real enemies from innocent people, as the number released from their captivity shows.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[harryskydives 0]

The military seems to have done a piss-poor job in separating real enemies from innocent people,
as the number released from their captivity shows.

5. Finally, the population of persons deemed not to be enemy combatants – mostly Uighers – are in fact accused of more serious allegations than a great many persons still deemed to be enemy combatants.
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I also agree: charge, have a military tribunal, ( Maybe they did get some that a public trial would bring out sensitive information) and sentence or release them. I suspect that once the awakening forces hear of the civil trials few will make it to US prisons.

I keep hearing about the large number released. So I guess they did charge many.

Don't run out of altitude and experience at the same time...

[piper17 1]

Just another innocent goatherder caught up in a US military sweep? Maybe not!

Released Guantanamo detainee behind March suicide truck bombing at Combat Outpost Inman in Mosul
By Bill RoggioJune 26, 2008 1:59 AM

Video clip from Al Furqan's latest tape, "The Islamic State is Meant to Stay". The video shows the attack on Combat Outpost Inman and images from The Long War Journal of the aftermath of the attack.
Al Qaeda in Iraq, through its puppet organization the Islamic State of Iraq, released its latest propaganda video on June 23. The video contains a montage of attacks throughout Iraq, and features two Kuwaiti al Qaeda operatives who conducted strikes in Mosul. One of the operatives was released from the US military prison in Guantanamo Bay, Cuba. The Islamic State of Iraq used footage taken at Combat Outpost Inman by this reporter in Mosul in March of this year.

The 38-minute-long video, titled "The Islamic State is Meant to Stay," was produced by Al Furqan, al Qaeda's media arm in Iraq. Al Furqan has released few videos over the past six weeks said Nibras Kazimi, a Visiting Scholar at the Hudson Institute, at his website, Talisman Gate.

The video is the first official al-Furqan release since May 30, according to ThreatsWatch.org's Nick Grace, and the 24th video released in 2008. "By this time last year," he said, "they had produced exactly 90 videos. The rank and file on the Internet have even begun to question whether recent attack 'snuff' videos produced by this outfit are even new or just archival material to keep the appearance of fresh output. U.S. operations against their media cells inside Iraq late last year have had a profound impact."


Listen to Bill Roggio discuss the al Qaeda video and the use of his images of the attack at Combat Outpost Inman with Covert Radio's Brett Winterble.

Al Furqan's output "has been reduced to a trickle," said Mr. Kazimi, noting that al Qaeda has not refuted reports on the death of senior leaders, including reports of the death of Abu Omar al Baghdadi, the purported leader of the Islamic State of Iraq, and Abu Ayyub al Masri, al Qaeda in Iraq's leader and the Islamic State's defense minister. Al Masri and Baghdadi, who the US military says is a fictitious character played by an actor, have not been confirmed killed. The US military said it killed al Qaeda's emir, or leader, in Mosul on June 23. Multiple senior al Qaeda leaders in Mosul have been killed or captured this year.

Al Qaeda had planned "a big showdown in Mosul but either opted not to go through with it or they weren’t able to muster enough force," Mr. Kazimi said.

In March, an al Qaeda leader admitted that its position in Iraq is tenuous. Abu-Turab Al-Jaza'iri, a senior al Qaeda commander in northern Iraq, said al Qaeda "lost several cities and have been forced to withdraw from others," but was still fighting. "I do not want to paint a false picture: Our position is very difficult, but we are fighting, and will continue to do so," Jazai'ri said.


Abdullah Salih al Ajmi, the former released from at Guantanamo Bay detainee behind the attack on Combat Outpost Inman.

A former Kuwaiti Guantanamo Bay detainee conducts a suicide attack in Mosul

Two Kuwaiti al Qaeda operatives who conducted suicide attacks were featured at the end of the video. Abu Omar al Kuwaiti, also known as Badr Mishel Gama’an al Harbi, and Abu Juheiman al Kuwaiti, also known as Abdullah Salih al Ajmi, are both shown on the video, along with their attacks in Mosul, said Mr. Kazimi.

Harbi, who claimed to be a "veteran of the jihad in Afghanistan," conducted a suicide car bomb attack on a police station in Mosul on April 26, 2008.

Ajmi was released from at Guantanamo Bay and was searching for "a way to reconnect with the jihad." He claimed he was tortured while at Guantanamo Bay.

Ajmi "is seemingly responsible for an earlier truck bombing at the Iraqi Army HQ in the Harmat neighborhood of Mosul on March 23, 2008," said Kazimi. The attack occurred at Combat Outpost Inman, an Iraqi Army base that served as the headquarters for the 1st Battalion, 3rd Brigade of the 2nd Iraqi Army Division.

Thirteen Iraqi soldiers were killed and 42 were wounded after Ajmi drove an armored truck packed an estimated 5,000 to 10,000 pounds of explosives through the gate of the outpost and detonated in a spot between the three main buildings of the compound. The blast destroyed the façades of the three buildings, including the building housing the battalion headquarters.

Three days prior, Brigadier General Taha, the brigade commander relieved Lieutenant Colonel Favil, the commander of the 1st Battalion, of his command. Favil was arrested for a shooting and absent from his command, and his troops were not securing the main road leading from Mosul to Tal Afar in the west.

Taha believed the attack was planned from the inside. "We believe this is some kind of plot," Taha said while surveying the damage immediately after the attack.

Al Furqan used footage taken by this reporter in the immediate aftermath of the suicide attack at Combat outpost Inman in its latest video. Four images from In Pictures: Suicide car bomb attacks at Combat Outpost Inman were used in the al Qaeda propaganda video to detail the aftermath of the attack

"A man can never have too much red wine, too many books, or too much ammunition"...Rudyard Kipling

[billvon 2,881]

Too bad people like you prevented him from being put on trial, convicted and sentenced.

[mnealtx 0]

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Too bad people like you prevented him from being put on trial, convicted and sentenced.

And now, for an equally silly response:

Too bad people like you prevented him from being held as a prisoner of war.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[Remster 30]

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Too bad people like you prevented him from being put on trial, convicted and sentenced.

And now, for an equally silly response:

Too bad people like you prevented him from being held as a prisoner of war.

I though they were "ennemy combatants"?

Remster

[billvon 2,881]

>Too bad people like you prevented him from being held as a prisoner of war.

Hey, I'd be fine with that. Hold em as POW's and follow the Geneva Convention.

[nerdgirl 0]

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Just another innocent goatherder caught up in a US military sweep? Maybe not!

At least 3 dozen former Guantanamo detainees have been implicated in post-release violence. Fox News story, which notes that # represents 7% of the released detainees.

There has been at least one prior confirmed detainee who became a suicide bomber after being radicalized due to detention. Here's another one who became a Taliban leader after he 'networked' at Gitmo: "Militants found recruits among Guantanamo's wrongly detained."

Is there anything to assess whether this suicide bomber/alleged Guantanamo detainee was radicalized *because* of his alleged experience while in detention as well?

The individuals responsible for the March 2004 bombings in Madrid that killed 191 people were petty to moderate criminals radicalized and organized in while in Spanish prison.

Bill is correct -- this is further evidence (beyond the findings in the 3 Supreme Court rulings) why detainees need to (not should) be put on trial, if guilty convicted, and put away for the rest of their lives.

VR/Marg

Act as if everything you do matters, while laughing at yourself for thinking anything you do matters.
Tibetan Buddhist saying

[livendive 8]

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Too bad people like you prevented him from being put on trial, convicted and sentenced.

And now, for an equally silly response:

Too bad people like you prevented him from being held as a prisoner of war.

When did the government express any interest in treating them as prisoners of war?

Blues,
Dave

"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)