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Who sent Hitler?

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I cant reveal who Jesus is to you.



Then would please stop trying? (Upon further reflection, the First Amendment gives you the right to cause people to despise your religion.) I realize you mean well, but it proselytizing like yours that turns people away from Christianity.
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I bet Hitler could have done a better job Than
George W. Bush.Weak dollar high fuel prices.
200 billion dollar war.Isn't life just great.



I know bush is supported by many evangelicals. I am not an evangelical. For those interested in knowing why not...

As Jesus and his disciples were on their way, he came to a village where a woman named Martha opened her home to him. 39She had a sister called Mary, who sat at the Lord's feet listening to what he said. 40But Martha was distracted by all the preparations that had to be made. She came to him and asked, "Lord, don't you care that my sister has left me to do the work by myself? Tell her to help me!"
41"Martha, Martha," the Lord answered, "you are worried and upset about many things, 42but only one thing is needed.[f] Mary has chosen what is better, and it will not be taken away from her."

"We didn't start the fire"

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I cant reveal who Jesus is to you.



Then would please stop trying? (Upon further reflection, the First Amendment gives you the right to cause people to despise your religion.) I realize you mean well, but it proselytizing like yours that turns people away from Christianity.



I saw what I believe to be errors in the representaion of the Word and I engaged and confronted them, I dont believe I proselytized anything. I am aware that many will reject the message and blame that rejection on the man, I am afraid you have made me that man.
"We didn't start the fire"

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The Bible took about 1500 years to assemble. Genesis was written about 9BC.

Only three children of the Devil???
Besides Hitler, what about...
Jeffrey Dahmer
Adolf Eichmann
John Wayne Gacy
Attila the Hun
Idi Amin Dada
Pol Pot
Vlad Tepes
Ivan the Terrible
Josef Stalin
Slobodan Milosevic
Paul Bernardo & Karla Homolka
Richard Ramirez
the list goes on for ages...:S

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The Bible took about 1500 years to assemble. Genesis was written about 9BC.

Only three children of the Devil???
Besides Hitler, what about...
Jeffrey Dahmer
Adolf Eichmann
John Wayne Gacy
Attila the Hun
Idi Amin Dada
Pol Pot
Vlad Tepes
Ivan the Terrible
Josef Stalin
Slobodan Milosevic
Paul Bernardo & Karla Homolka
Richard Ramirez
the list goes on for ages...:S



Where did you get the 3 from? All I said was there are children of the devil. The devil is the Father of Lies, that is what Jesus calls him.

It is funny to me that alot of these people are self proclaimed geniuses. The ego is one of the greatest lies we have, that is why Jesus says to deny ourself.
"We didn't start the fire"

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I am afraid you have made me that man.



You give me far too much credit. I simply made an observation.



Your right, I am mis-reading you completely. Believe it or not, your motive for engaging me is similar to my motive for engaging others. from what I have gathered, you dont like me representing Jesus as the only way to salvation, and I dont like others misrepresenting him. All I know is the Gospel, its all I care about and all I am. Its meditation, prayer, practice, teaching, learning, ect...My representation is in humbleness and humility, truth and grace; its not difinitive, but its not wreckless or carefree either.

I also, dont like how people mis represent the Gospel. Grace is the power behind the Gospel, not judgement and punsihment. How do you think I feel when "big shots" say things in the name of Jesus, but neglect to show grace, the very message of the Gospel? They have no right to judge others. Saying that New Orleans was destroyed becasue of homosexuality is judging; saying that Hitler was sent to punish the jews is judging the jews. The Gospel is the judge, and it says that we are all guilty and that "such things must happen". How can someone who is just as guilty point the finger at someone else? I have said it many times now, what these evangelical preachers are doing is very dangerous. Lawrocket is saying the same thing, but I am afraid (I may be misunderstanding) he is teaching others to use that as an excuse not to teach the Gospel, that is why I responded. I would have just PM'd him, but he put this on a public forum and I believe he is slightly mistaken on his understanding of Job. Now, it seems we will talk it out amongst everyone and hopefully, God will guide us into the truth.

I am sorry, however for mis reading you...I am far from perfect. By the way, how do you make that line go through the word like that?
"We didn't start the fire"

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The Gospel is the judge, and it says that we are all guilty and that "such things must happen".



The Gospels are books written by men other than Christ. It would seem that those authors have no right to judge, either.


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By the way, how do you make that line go through the word like that?



Ask and Ye shall receive.
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The Gospel is the judge, and it says that we are all guilty and that "such things must happen".



The Gospels are books written by men other than Christ. It would seem that those authors have no right to judge, either.
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They are inspired by the Holy Spirit and written by man, and you are absolutely 100% right, the authors have no room to judge either. They also didnt have a desire to judge...so where is all this judgement coming from?? I still maintain that to make a judgement about something is not the same as judging someone. The Gospel speaks about this alot. I believe you said something similar quite some time back, when you said something like not liking someone and not not liking what they do are different...and I agreed with you as well.

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By the way, how do you make that line go through the word like that?



Ask and Ye shall receive.


:DThank you.
"We didn't start the fire"

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Both candidates had fiery preachers who said stupid shit, both have rejected their support after learning about it. Instead of spending tne next six months saying "but Wright was worserer than Hagee!" "No, Hagee was the meanest nastiest baddest preacher of all!" "Yeah? Well McCain gave him the bestest rejection of all!" perhaps now we can get back to issues like what the candidate's solutions are for the energy crisis, or the issues surrounding the Iraq war.



McCain didn't attend Hagee's church for 20 years, if at all. Hagee certainly isn't McCain's "preacher" as much as Wright is Obama's. Obama didn't "learn" about Wright's comments. Wright is his pastor, and "mentor" in Obama's own words. He's known, and agreed with it all along. You can't equate the two situations.
The forecast is mostly sunny with occasional beer.

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so where is all this judgement coming from??



When you said:

The Gospel is the judge, and it says that we are all guilty and that "such things must happen".


You just love scrutiny dont you?;)

If we are ALL guilty of sin then what gives us the right to judge one another? This is what the Gospel says. You do understand what I am saying right? Do you think we are guilty of judging others? Just a yes or no first, then we can discuss it further if you like.
"We didn't start the fire"

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No. I'm not using it as an excuse not to teach the Gospel. I think it SHOULD be taught.

I am using the examples as my way of saying that anyone who says something happened as God's punishment is sinning because they purport to speak for God.


My wife is hotter than your wife.

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You just love scrutiny dont you?



Surely the word of God can withstand some scrutiny, right?

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If we are ALL guilty of sin then what gives us the right to judge one another? This is what the Gospel says. You do understand what I am saying right? Do you think we are guilty of judging others? Just a yes or no first, then we can discuss it further if you like.



Those who do not believe in the concept of sin do not typically judge others for sins. Of those who do believe in sin, some do judge others.
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Those who do not believe in the concept of sin do not typically judge others for sins. Of those who do believe in sin, some do judge others.



You dont have to believe in sin to judge someone. Do you think you are guilty of judging others? Yes or no?



Sure. There are a few posters on this site that I am constantly judging to be morons. That doesn't mean I think they're doing anything wrong; it just means I don't believe they're on the preferred side of the intelligence mean.

I've judged some singers to be tone deaf.

I've judged some well meaning roommates to be appalling cooks (and others to be excellent cooks).

Heck, I even helped judge a Physics Olympics on a couple different occasions.

That's not the same kind of judgement as those who judge others to be living their lives in such a way that they are damned to Hell.
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Those who do not believe in the concept of sin do not typically judge others for sins. Of those who do believe in sin, some do judge others.



You dont have to believe in sin to judge someone. Do you think you are guilty of judging others? Yes or no?



Sure. There are a few posters on this site that I am constantly judging to be morons. That doesn't mean I think they're doing anything wrong; it just means I don't believe they're on the preferred side of the intelligence mean.

I've judged some singers to be tone deaf.

I've judged some well meaning roommates to be appalling cooks (and others to be excellent cooks).

Heck, I even helped judge a Physics Olympics on a couple different occasions.

That's not the same kind of judgement as those who judge others to be living their lives in such a way that they are damned to Hell.



Im not talking about the condemnation of hell or judging events, im talking about judgment. We carry judgment in the heart, it is sin the likes of all sin that darkens the heart and takes us further away from innocence and truth. Unless of course you dont believe in sin, then it is just a word that has nothing to do with the condition of the heart.

What do you think about the ego?
"We didn't start the fire"

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Im not talking about the condemnation of hell or judging events, im talking about judgment. We carry judgment in the heart, it is sin the likes of all sin that darkens the heart and takes us further away from innocence and truth. Unless of course you dont believe in sin, then it is just a word that has nothing to do with the condition of the heart.



Perhaps you should define judgement precisely, because I don't believe in sin.

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What do you think about the ego?



Let's not change the subject just yet.
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Im not talking about the condemnation of hell or judging events, im talking about judgment. We carry judgment in the heart, it is sin the likes of all sin that darkens the heart and takes us further away from innocence and truth. Unless of course you dont believe in sin, then it is just a word that has nothing to do with the condition of the heart.



Perhaps you should define judgement precisely, because I don't believe in sin.

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What do you think about the ego?



Let's not change the subject just yet.



Believe it or not, Ego is on the same plane as judgement. We judge others to be lesser than us because our ego defends that judgement. I have to admit, it is sort of difficult to define judgement precisely.

You dont believe in sin, thats ok, but you do believe in guilt right? Thats really all sin is, according to the bible. Remorse is only found in a pure and true heart. Those who reject remorse and follow the path of shamelessness and guiltlessness will only find themselves burying the guilt more and more until it is an unseen stain in the heart, which blackens it and hardens it, preventing the joy of love to enter. Asking for forgiveness and believing you are forgiven are two different things entirely.

If I had to try and define judgment I would say its the nature of holding someone else guilty for something.
"We didn't start the fire"

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But dont you think there is a interesting question who sent Hitler? If you are christian and analyze the text? Makes you wonder when we have been grown up in the western culture, and learning about the jews history and compare the the written "analyzed" texT



Nobody sent Hitler. He was a twisted, and unfortunately charismatic character who came up in a time of social and economic upheavel, offering simple solutions that promised a return to a mythical past that never existed. And desperate people went for it, and for him; hook, line, and stinker.

The problem I have with your proposition is that you're accepting Hagee's interpretation of scripture as a definitive source of Jewish history. It is not. For one thing, it is simply an ignorant and self serving interpretation of one single source, the Bible. (Oh boy, this is going to stir some people up.) But the Jews are more than capable of recording and interpreting their own history, and have done so, if we would take the time or trouble to look into it. One of the biggest problems in Christian - Jewish relations is that western culture has been too ready to accept without question the Christian interpretation of events around the Jewish people. This goes all the way back to the Jews' "rejection" of Christ as the Messiah, to blaming "the Jews" for Christ's death, and from there writing all Jews off as "Christ killers".

In fact, numero uno, Jesus was himself a Jew. His followers were one of many competing Jewish sects. They were a millenarian sect, which was foretelling the end of Roman rule in the Holy Land and the establishment of a thousand year kingdon of God to follow. When the Romans raized Jerusalem and slaughtered or enslaved every Jew they could get their hands on after the uprising of AD 70, there were virtually no Jewish followers of Christ left. The religion was basically reinvented by its Gentile believers, who effectively divorced themselves from the Jewish faith and community. And then the Christianity we know took shape in Greece, among Gentile Greek followers, who had their own strong anti-Semitic biases. It is in the Greek authored books of the New Testament that you start to see the really nasty references about "the Jews did this and the Jews did that...".

What happened to the Jews under Hitler is far too massive, complex and monstrous to be explained away by some wingnut preacher expounding on his interpretation of a single chapter from the Old Testament.

Your humble servant.....Professor Gravity !

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If I had to try and define judgment I would say its the nature of holding someone else guilty for something.



Kind of hard to get rid of all that "sinful" judgment and still maintain a criminal justice system. Or do you make some kind of exception for that?

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If I had to try and define judgment I would say its the nature of holding someone else guilty for something.



Kind of hard to get rid of all that "sinful" judgment and still maintain a criminal justice system. Or do you make some kind of exception for that?



If someone is guilty of something, they are guilty. The criminal justice system is of the world and it has been around for a very long time, that is after all what allowed Jesus to be crucified. What I am telling you is of the spirit and you cannot understand things of the spirit while peering through the lens of the world, becasue all you see is what is in front of you.
"We didn't start the fire"

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If I had to try and define judgment I would say its the nature of holding someone else guilty for something.



Kind of hard to get rid of all that "sinful" judgment and still maintain a criminal justice system. Or do you make some kind of exception for that?



If someone is guilty of something, they are guilty. The criminal justice system is of the world and it has been around for a very long time, that is after all what allowed Jesus to be crucified. What I am telling you is of the spirit and you cannot understand things of the spirit while peering through the lens of the world, becasue all you see is what is in front of you.



Very Christian of you to avoid answering my question.

Let's make it simple. Is the criminal justice system, which does exactly what you say is bad (judging people), acceptable to you or not?

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If I had to try and define judgment I would say its the nature of holding someone else guilty for something.



Kind of hard to get rid of all that "sinful" judgment and still maintain a criminal justice system. Or do you make some kind of exception for that?



If someone is guilty of something, they are guilty. The criminal justice system is of the world and it has been around for a very long time, that is after all what allowed Jesus to be crucified. What I am telling you is of the spirit and you cannot understand things of the spirit while peering through the lens of the world, becasue all you see is what is in front of you.



Very Christian of you to avoid answering my question.

Let's make it simple. Is the criminal justice system, which does exactly what you say is bad (judging people), acceptable to you or not?



It is not my job to judge anyone. If someone is guilty of something, then they are guilty. Our criminal justice system is far from perfect in its judgments and can be completely overrun with money, politics and the media. Is it acceptable how? Does it punish those who break its laws, yes, do I always agree with its descisons, NO. But the criminal justice system has NOTHING to do with guilt we carry in our hearts. That was the original direction of the conversation. If you want to have a thread on whether or not the criminal justice system is acceptable to believers and non believers alike, then start one, we are talking about guilt, sin, and judgment as it relates to a life in the spirit.
"We didn't start the fire"

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