Purple Heart Awards For Mental Stress?

[shropshire 0]

We don't have the notion of a Purple Heart award in our military and on balance I think that it's probably right that we dont; Mostly because of the arguments forwarded in this thread.... who's to say who has the 'most worthwhile' wound?
Should it go equally to someone who was shot, lost a limb, was shot but grazed, shot in the front, shot in the back - Or suffered from any degree of mental trauma (a pefectly valid battle field condition, at least it has been to right minded people [sic] ever since the WW1).

As Dave said above "The medal is not an award for performance, it's a sign of gratitude for sacrifice". That's the bottom line from my perspective and should be awarded to ALL who have made a sacrifice".

.

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[Gawain 0]

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As Dave said above "The medal is not an award for performance, it's a sign of gratitude for sacrifice". That's the bottom line from my perspective and should be awarded to ALL who have made a sacrifice".

It's an award of Merit - as developed by George Washington. During WWII, long after it was "reauthorized", it was awarded for wounds received in actions against the enemy and for meritorious service. It is now awarded for the former.

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[ElJosh 0]

No! No! No!
and FUCK No!
I know too many bums riding the PTSD gravy train just so that they can get a phat disability check from the gov. Yes there are legit cases and these people should be compensated for this if it is truly crippling your ability to function in society but a Purple Heart!? I thought the Combat Action Badge was ridiculous. It's not like a Purple Heart is all that hard to get. You only need a grade 3 concussion which means you only have to state that you lost consciousness. It’s demeaning to the award and the people that were truly injured. Every Tom, Dick and Harry will try and get one. Not to mention that there are life time benefits that come with this award.
~El Josh AKA Ruby

DS #149
Yes I only have 3 jumps...it's the magic number dude.

[ElJosh 0]

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For those who voted no, would it make a difference if the PTSD was brought about by being tortured by the enemy?

No one really answered this and I am not certain about a Purple Heart but there is a separate ribbon awarded for being a POW. I would assume that the above scenario would be covered by it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prisoner_of_War_Medal
But there is also a code that must be followed while one is a POW
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/POW_code_of_conduct
That is all I really know about this though.
~El Josh AKA Ruby

DS #149
Yes I only have 3 jumps...it's the magic number dude.

[Waldschrat 0]

very right!

[akarunway 1]

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I voted no. The purple heart should remain as an award for a physical sacrifice. I say that for the pure purpose of keeping it simple. Those suffering from Post Tr. should be awarded the best medical therapy their country can offer.

Ding ding ding. We have a winner.

I hold it true, whate'er befall;
I feel it, when I sorrow most;
'Tis better to have loved and lost
Than never to have loved at all.

[nerdgirl 0]

"No Purple Hearts for PTSD, Pentagon rules"

“The Purple Heart will not be awarded to service members suffering from post-traumatic stress disorder, the Pentagon confirmed Monday.

“‘It’s not a qualifying Purple Heart wound,’ said Defense Department spokeswoman Eileen Lainez, although she added that “advancements in medical science may support future re-evaluation.’

“The decision, reached Nov. 3 but not made public until now, followed months of evaluation by military and outside officials. That evaluation was spurred when Defense Secretary Robert Gates was asked at a May press conference whether he would support awarding the Purple Heart to PTSD sufferers.

“Gates said the idea was ‘clearly something that needs to be looked at.’ His undersecretary for personnel and readiness, David S.C. Chu, decided against making such awards after conferring with the Pentagon’s Awards Advisory Group, which includes ‘awards experts’ from the Office of the Secretary of Defense, the Joint Staff, the military services, the Institute of Heraldry and the Center for Military History, according to Lainez.

“Gates concurred with that decision, Lainez said.



“Lainez stressed that the Pentagon ‘is working hard to encourage service members and their families to seek care for PTSD, by reducing the stigma and urging them to seek professional care. Service members diagnosed with PTSD “still warrant appropriate medical care and disability compensation,’ she said."

Act as if everything you do matters, while laughing at yourself for thinking anything you do matters.
Tibetan Buddhist saying

[JohnRich 4]

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“The Purple Heart will not be awarded to service members suffering from post-traumatic stress disorder, the Pentagon confirmed Monday."

Bravo! Thanks for that update, nerdchick.

[RRAMJET 0]

Medals aside,
To those of you who supported disabled veterans
in your posts, you are caring and honorable people.
Good on you!
To those who chose to mock disabled veterans in
their posts, you are disgraced by your own words!!!
Hang your heads in shame!!!
Randy

[Amazon 7]

I wonder what the death rate will be for OIF veterans as time goes on.

A hell of a lot of vets of my generation died in Vietnam.. and didn't even know it till years later.

[steve1 5]

I'd say no. I have profound respect for veterans who have served. PTSD is often a result of too much combat.

I think there is no disgrace in admitting you have PTSD.

One problem though is in diagnosing PTSD. It isn't too hard to fake symptoms to get a government check. Many soldiers have done just that. Diagnosing mental illness is not an exact science.

It's not like you have a broken arm and you go to the Dr. to find out why it hurts.

Most mental health professionals have trouble diagnosing exactly what is wrong with a client, or they often aren't sure what is causing the problem.
The human brain is a very complicated thing that we still don't know that much about. Then complicate all that with those people who are faking simptoms to get a government check or even a medal. I think it would be pure foolishness to give an honored medal such as the purple heart, for mental illness.

There are a ton of people who had mental illness before they even enlisted in the service. This includes PTSD from a troubled home. After their service in wartime, many say the war did this to me. Often it simply isn't the case.

The purple heart is an award that deserves respect. It shouldn't be handed out to those who are unworthy.

If a person has PTSD resulting from trauma in war, in service to their country, they are deserving of a lot, including people's respect. I don't think that includes a purple heart though. There's just too much room for fakery....

[Andrewwhyte 1]

I say no, but yes for those with verifiable traumatic brain injury. The brain is an organ like many others. If it is damaged, it is damaged.

[steve1 5]

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I say no, but yes for those with verifiable traumatic brain injury. The brain is an organ like many others. If it is damaged, it is damaged.

I agree that brain is an organ and that it can be damaged, but the twenty dollar question is....how exactly has the brain been damaged and where exactly did the damage come from.

Most Clinical Psychologists have a least eight years of college. Much of what they do is trying to determine an exact diagnosis. Some times it all boils down to guess work. The diagnosis often changes from doctor to doctor.

Is that what winning a service medal is all about. Find the right doctor, and you win that medal.

When I was about to be drafted, we had a fellow that went with us to take our physical for the draft. Back then they would take most anyone with a heart beat.

This guy had a note from a Psychologist that said he was unfit for military duty because he was more or less a section eight type of guy. He had money and had found a way out. That note was his ticket home, and he didn't have to serve.

We all knew it was B.S. The rest of us had no choice. Many of us knew we were going to Vietnam, probably in the infantry.

I wonder if I could get a Doctor to write me a note for the Congressional Medal of Honor. It makes about as much sense as a note for a Purple Heart.

[Andrewwhyte 1]

A psychologist is not competent to diagnose a TBI; that requires a neurologist. A psychologist is useful for dealing with the symptoms of TSI which may include PTSD.
Re-read Nerdgirl's original post in this thread.

[HillerMyLife 0]

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We don't have the notion of a Purple Heart award in our military and on balance I think that it's probably right that we dont; Mostly because of the arguments forwarded in this thread.... who's to say who has the 'most worthwhile' wound?
Should it go equally to someone who was shot, lost a limb, was shot but grazed, shot in the front, shot in the back - Or suffered from any degree of mental trauma (a pefectly valid battle field condition, at least it has been to right minded people [sic] ever since the WW1).

As Dave said above "The medal is not an award for performance, it's a sign of gratitude for sacrifice". That's the bottom line from my perspective and should be awarded to ALL who have made a sacrifice".

.

I'm not sure where you're from but neither you nor most people in this thread have any idea what the hell they are talking about. The Purple Heart already has clear cut parameters for receipt, this subject isn't up for speculation.

My opinion?? If they want to create a new award, then the Pentagon can knock themselves out but they shouldn't be so eager to modify something with that much history behind it. Last I checked stress doesn't quite stack up with "killed or wounded in action".

Someday Never Comes

[vortexring 0]

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Last I checked stress doesn't quite stack up with "killed or wounded in action".

What about stress related deaths and injuries then?

Might be worth considering this little statistic; more Falklands veterans have killed themselves than died during the conflict itself.

That's all. Should countries award a medal for soldiers suffering from, for example, PTSD?

No. They should instead make more of an effort to support the soldiers for the rest of their lives.

'for it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "chuck 'im out, the brute!" But it's "saviour of 'is country" when the guns begin to shoot.'

[DanG 1]

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My opinion?? If they want to create a new award, then the Pentagon can knock themselves out but they shouldn't be so eager to modify something with that much history behind it. Last I checked stress doesn't quite stack up with "killed or wounded in action".

You might be interested to know a little about the history of the Purple Heart. It was first awarded for heroic bravery by General Washington during the Revolutionary War. Being wounded had nothing to do with the award until much later in its history. The qualifications for the award have actually been changed a number of times. Although the award has a lot of history behind it, if anything it is a history of how people's perceptions of service have changed over the years.

- Dan G

[nerdgirl 0]

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I wonder what the death rate will be for OIF veterans as time goes on.

A hell of a lot of vets of my generation died in Vietnam.. and didn't even know it till years later.

Honestly, and owned entirely as my own opinion and based on my experiences, I think it will be lower for OIF and OEF veterans than even the veterans operations of the Persian Gulf War (Desert Storm, Desert Sabre, Desert Shield, Instant Thunder, & I think I forgot one or 2 ... ). Awareness is significantly higher and negative stigma is significantly lower (altho' still too high).

There also are individuals in policy positions who remember what you describe.

VR/Marg

Act as if everything you do matters, while laughing at yourself for thinking anything you do matters.
Tibetan Buddhist saying

[steve1 5]

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A psychologist is not competent to diagnose a TBI; that requires a neurologist. A psychologist is useful for dealing with the symptoms of TSI which may include PTSD.
Re-read Nerdgirl's original post in this thread.

I guess I need to slow down on my reading, and not be so quick to judgment. A closed head injury from a bomb is far different than PTSD.

Brain scans are a new form of technology that truly are changing what we know about the brain. Severe PTSD also changes how the brain is physically wired. Problems with memory are common.

Bran scans can show some of this. It may be possible some day to look at a brain scan and even diagnose exactly what is wrong.

I truly think the brain is probably the most complicated organ in our body.

I had a professor in college who had a doctorate in psychology. She said it was kind of like being a witch doctor, because we still don't know that much about the human brain.

The field of psychiatry is only about fifty years old. It wasn't too many years ago when people were putting the liver of a fresh killed lamb, on the head of a mentally disturbed person to draw out the poison. We've come a long way since then, but we still have a great deal more to learn.

[Amazon 7]

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Honestly, and owned entirely as my own opinion and based on my experiences, I think it will be lower for OIF and OEF veterans than even the veterans operations of the Persian Gulf War (Desert Storm, Desert Sabre, Desert Shield, Instant Thunder, & I think I forgot one or 2 ... ). Awareness is significantly higher and negative stigma is significantly lower (altho' still too high).

There also are individuals in policy positions who remember what you describe.

I certainly hope so. I still cant go near that black wall... it should probably be twice the size based on all the lost lives


too many friends.... and we still have not learned not to repeat the same mistakes.

[HillerMyLife 0]

If you are asking if guys that off themselves(because of stress) should get it, then I still say no.

Someday Never Comes

[HillerMyLife 0]

Thats true, but the amount of times its been awarded for its original intent(3?) is far outnumbered by the times its been awarded for wounds received in action. I'm pretty sure its remained mostly unchanged since the 30's.

To me it seems pretty clear that PTSD and physical wounds are different enough that the current wording covers this, and thus makes it a non issue. One is obviously apparent immediately and the other is not.

Its not that I think people suffering from PTSD are any less deserving of attention and benefits, I just think that the Purple Heart is reserved for our brothers and sisters who left some BLOOD on the battlefield, and that it should stay that way.

Someday Never Comes

[AMax 0]

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Have you been in combat?

he is a well known warrior who fights well with his keyboard

[vortexring 0]

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If you are asking if guys that off themselves(because of stress) should get it, then I still say no.

Do you genuinely believe that's what I'm asking!? For 'guys that off themselves(because of stress)' earn a medal!!!?

Nuts.

'for it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "chuck 'im out, the brute!" But it's "saviour of 'is country" when the guns begin to shoot.'

[Amazon 7]

One good thing.. in the last couple days I have seen Gary Sinese in TV ads telling vets that if they are feeling suicidal... to please get help from the VA.Hopefully they will get help they need.