happythoughts 0 #1 February 7, 2008 clicky QuoteTAH STATE PRISON — An inmate is accusing the Utah Department of Corrections of denying him his right to practice an ancient Nordic religion while behind bars. Michael Polk, who is serving time for aggravated assault and robbery, filed the lawsuit against corrections officials in federal court, accusing them of denying him several religious items that he claims are necessary to practice the Asatru religion, which worships ancient Nordic gods like Odin, Thor, Tyr and Heimdal. According to the complaint, Polk claims that he has been a member of the Asatru faith since 2005, and in order to properly practice it he needs numerous items including: a Thor's Hammer, a prayer cloth, a Mead Horn used for drinking Wassail, a drum made of wood and boar skin, a rune staff and a sword. Of course, people laugh because it is just mythology. In Utah, there is a guy saying that his right to practice his religion as a vampire. He has people worried. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BillyVance 34 #2 February 7, 2008 Jesus Christ on a pogo stick. Most lawsuits brought forth by prisoners are fucking retarded to begin with. As far as I'm concerned, they lost most of their rights when they were convicted of their crimes and sent to prison. Now there are cases where innocent people were wrongfully convicted and spend their time trying to get back in the courts with appeals, and that I understand. But the bullshit about being denied their right to practice something or another, fuck 'em. Give them a bible, or Koran, or Torah, or hell, even Dianetics. "Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ExAFO 0 #3 February 7, 2008 You bet your ass if he was LDS, there'd be ZERO problem getting accommodations in UT... Illinois needs a CCW Law. NOW. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DSE 3 #4 February 7, 2008 It used to be that when you went to jail, you lost all of your civil rights. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andrewwhyte 1 #5 February 7, 2008 Nowhere in the English cum American system have prisoners lost their religious rights. Usually it is quite the opposite- you better practice if you know what is good for you. I have no problem denying this guy his religious baubles as long as they deny everyone else theirs; no bibles, no Korans, no Tom Toms, no sweat lodges. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,254 #6 February 7, 2008 Quote According to the complaint, Polk claims that he has been a member of the Asatru faith since 2005, and in order to properly practice it he needs numerous items including: a Thor's Hammer, a prayer cloth, a Mead Horn used for drinking Wassail, a drum made of wood and boar skin, a rune staff and a sword. Legendary!On a more serious note, I believe that Asatru (or something similar to it) has been appropriated by some odious white Power and Neo-Nazi groups, especially within the prison system. I wonder if this has any connection.Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DSE 3 #7 February 7, 2008 QuoteNowhere in the English cum American system have prisoners lost their religious rights. Usually it is quite the opposite- you better practice if you know what is good for you. I have no problem denying this guy his religious baubles as long as they deny everyone else theirs; no bibles, no Korans, no Tom Toms, no sweat lodges. I can't be certain, as high school was a long time ago, but I recall learning that the only religion that was allowable to practice in the American prison system in the early to mid part of the 20th century was Christianity. I can recall the battles over this in the 70's, but I was pretty young, so may not recall all of that correctly. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Richards 0 #8 February 7, 2008 People do not require artifacts to practice their religion. Otherwise catholics stranded on a desert island without a crucifix will go to hell. We do not need to fund/subsidize a convicts religion. His right, his problem. My biggest handicap is that sometimes the hole in the front of my head operates a tad bit faster than the grey matter contained within. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andrewwhyte 1 #9 February 7, 2008 You are of course, correct. I was referring to your comment about losing all your civil rights. This would indicate that you could be denied your religion even if it was the dominant religion. That has never been true. As a non dominant-religion adherent I firmly believe all forms of superstitious belief should be treated equally. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andrewwhyte 1 #10 February 7, 2008 Quote We do not need to fund/subsidize a convicts religion. His right, his problem. i am OK with that. No more chapels in the prison system. The bible shall be available in the prison library on the same rotational availability as witchcraft tomes. The crown shall cease supplying salary for chaplains/imams/rabbis. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Richards 0 #11 February 7, 2008 QuoteQuoteQuote We do not need to fund/subsidize a convicts religion. His right, his problem. i am OK with that. No more chapels in the prison system. The bible shall be available in the prison library on the same rotational availability as witchcraft tomes. The crown shall cease supplying salary for chaplains/imams/rabbis. Precisely. If the catholic church wants to spread the word to convicts they are free to drop in and hand them out. I should not have to pay for it. My biggest handicap is that sometimes the hole in the front of my head operates a tad bit faster than the grey matter contained within. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hausse 0 #12 February 7, 2008 QuoteQuote We do not need to fund/subsidize a convicts religion. His right, his problem. i am OK with that. No more chapels in the prison system. The bible shall be available in the prison library on the same rotational availability as witchcraft tomes. The crown shall cease supplying salary for chaplains/imams/rabbis. I agree. Religion should be separated from Government so it should be equally handled like every other religion in a state institution. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andrewwhyte 1 #13 February 7, 2008 Should we do the same thing to the armed forces as well? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,254 #14 February 7, 2008 QuoteShould we do the same thing to the armed forces as well? What, not cater to any soldier's religion, or cater to all soldiers' religions equally?Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andrewwhyte 1 #15 February 7, 2008 Either/or. "Yah, Sergent Major, I and I keep our dreads and our ganj for Zion." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Richards 0 #16 February 7, 2008 QuoteQuoteShould we do the same thing to the armed forces as well? No. People being put in harms way on our behalf should have some spiritual comfort provided. You have hit me with a question here that is hard to specify a complete answer for since our soldiers do come from various religions and all deserve the same support. We may not be able to afford padres of all religions but I would suspect that we would need to ensure they are versed in all religions and open minded enough to provide neccessary religious support in any religion. My biggest handicap is that sometimes the hole in the front of my head operates a tad bit faster than the grey matter contained within. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DFWAJG 4 #17 February 8, 2008 Quote Quote According to the complaint, Polk claims that he has been a member of the Asatru faith since 2005, and in order to properly practice it he needs numerous items including: a Thor's Hammer, a prayer cloth, a Mead Horn used for drinking Wassail, a drum made of wood and boar skin, a rune staff and a sword. Legendary!On a more serious note, I believe that Asatru (or something similar to it) has been appropriated by some odious white Power and Neo-Nazi groups, especially within the prison system. I wonder if this has any connection. Yes, you are correct. Here in Cali, we have the wiccans and the thors. One is primarily the white supremists while the other is "others." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
1969912 0 #18 February 9, 2008 Some precedence regarding one particular religious activity (see Para (b)(5)). I wonder if it's been challenged. EDIT: Interesting wording. Also see (b)(7). http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/search/display.html?terms=1996a&url=/uscode/html/uscode42/usc_sec_42_00001996---a000-.html "Once we got to the point where twenty/something's needed a place on the corner that changed the oil in their cars we were doomed . . ." -NickDG Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zenister 0 #19 February 9, 2008 QuoteQuoteQuoteShould we do the same thing to the armed forces as well? No. People being put in harms way on our behalf should have some spiritual comfort provided. You have hit me with a question here that is hard to specify a complete answer for since our soldiers do come from various religions and all deserve the same support. We may not be able to afford padres of all religions but I would suspect that we would need to ensure they are versed in all religions and open minded enough to provide neccessary religious support in any religion. good F'n luck... the chances of a 'True Believer' (one to dedicated enough to become ordained in their religion and then join military service) who is also well versed enough, empathetic enough and 'open minded' enough to seriously minister to 'the heathens' without looking down their nose and attempting to insert their own faith and belief is slim and none.____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
