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Fuck you American healthcare system

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I dont think that coercion and community "dues" are the same thing. If you are part of a country club you have dues. If you are part of a community, you have dues. Maybe Im wrong.....maybe being part of a community should "dues" free, and shuold be all about "me, me, me". Then again, maybe not.

The problem is that too many want the free ride without paying the dues.



It;s because our system is set up that way. I pay my dues, but the illegals who are making me wait extra in emergency rooms arent. We need a system where everyone pays into and everyone benefits. On top of that we should also offer a privatized alternative. This way no one is turned down, and no one feels like someone else is taking advantage of the system while that person plays by the rules.
7 ounce wonders, music and dogs that are not into beer

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Note that in Canada they have privatized MRI offices, where you can pay approx $800CAD and get your MRI faster then what the government is offering.



Sounds a lot like here. You can either go for shitty government service, or you can pay a private doctor for your treatment.

But I've been told that I am selfish for actually doing that.


My wife is hotter than your wife.

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Did YOU attend a public school or college?



When I was a toddler, my parents were shipwrecked off of the coast of africa and soon after attacked and eaten by a large cat of some kind. Thus leaving me to fend for myself.

I scratched out a meager existence on roots and bugs, and eventually learned to hunt.

At that point, being able to subsist on something more substantial, I had some leisure time to establish a form of written record keeping and then started developing knowledge through observation and experimentation.

Finally, I built a small nuclear craft and sailed for civilization. On reaching shore, I immediately took equivalency tests for basic education, medicine, engineering, and, of course, Ape Family and Liberal Arts Studies.

Thus my degrees are all earned on my own.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

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fuck my fllow[sic] American, they can die, all that matters is my tax rate.



Now you're getting it.



That's sad, but that what you get with the "me, me, me" mentality.
7 ounce wonders, music and dogs that are not into beer

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We need a system where everyone pays



Why do you hate the poor and the minorities?

Did YOU benefit from attending public schools?

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

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The answer seems obvious to me. People like you who think health care should be an entitled right should spend the next 12 years training and hopefully passing the licensing boards to become doctors, so you can provide a better service.


...



Well we do have two doctors in my family. I chose a differnet route. I am working on my MBA.
7 ounce wonders, music and dogs that are not into beer

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fuck my fllow[sic] American, they can die, all that matters is my tax rate.



Now you're getting it.



That's sad, but that what you get with the "me, me, me" mentality.



And that "me, me, me" mentality is EXACTLY what you've been displaying all through this thread, Mike!!
Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

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We need a system where everyone pays



Why do you hate the poor and the minorities?

Did YOU benefit from attending public schools?



Yes, I went to both private and public schools. Either way you still get to pay for both. And while you are going to private school, you atill pay for public school through property tax. I dont have any poblems with that. It's not all about me all the time. I play by rules, and I pay for thinkgs, and I still see fucked up system, where people making your health decisions dont actually give a shit about you (Insurance companis)
7 ounce wonders, music and dogs that are not into beer

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fuck my fllow[sic] American, they can die, all that matters is my tax rate.



Now you're getting it.



That's sad, but that what you get with the "me, me, me" mentality.



And that "me, me, me" mentality is EXACTLY what you've been displaying all through this thread, Mike!!



Have I been displaying that? I play by the rules. I complain about people who dont, but get same level of service that I have to pay for. I also see a system that favors those with money (insurance companies, doctors, lawyers), and not the people its supposed to service. All I am saying is tht we need a more fair system. TK is a great example of the failure of this system.

We have the greatest doctors, greatest machines, and greatst R&D, but we also have a system that tries to prevent us from using all this BEST.
7 ounce wonders, music and dogs that are not into beer

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fuck my fllow[sic] American, they can die, all that matters is my tax rate.



Now you're getting it.



That's sad, but that what you get with the "me, me, me" mentality.



And that "me, me, me" mentality is EXACTLY what you've been displaying all through this thread, Mike!!



Am I? I play by the rules. I complain about people who dont, but get same level of service that I have to pay for. I also see a system that favors those with money, and not the people its supposed to service. all I am saying is tht we need a more fair system.



Really? I see you complaining about people that didn't pay using the same system that you paid to use. Isn't that basically the argument between the pro/con socialized medicine - having to pay for other people's healthcare?
Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

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The answer seems obvious to me. People like you who think health care should be an entitled right should spend the next 12 years training and hopefully passing the licensing boards to become doctors, so you can provide a better service.


...



Well we do have two doctors in my family. I chose a differnet route. I am working on my MBA.



Working on your MBA, that is all good. But lets say your earn a 4.0 GPA and I earn a 2.0 GPA due to poor study habits. "Thats not fair" I say. You should give me 1.0 of your GPA so I can have a 3.0. Sounds a lot like people asking me to pay for their health care.

And for good measure I have to ask the following question becsuse it is so cool: Have YOU gone to public school? Man, I am one cool customer!!!
The most terrifying words in the English language are: I'm from the government and I'm here to help.

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Accepting a taxpayer subsidy is not being hypocritical. Accepting a taxpayer subsidized service but complaining about others who want a service provided by taxpayers IS hypocritical.



How does this relate to complaints about others who want *additional* services provided to them by taxpayers? I have not asked the government to give me anything beyond what it already does, so how is it hypocritical to complain about others who want more and more?

Blues,
Dave
"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)

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The answer seems obvious to me. People like you who think health care should be an entitled right should spend the next 12 years training and hopefully passing the licensing boards to become doctors, so you can provide a better service.


...



Well we do have two doctors in my family. I chose a differnet route. I am working on my MBA.



Working on your MBA, that is all good. But lets say your earn a 4.0 GPA and I earn a 2.0 GPA due to poor study habits. "Thats not fair" I say. You should give me 1.0 of your GPA so I can have a 3.0. Sounds a lot like people asking me to pay for their health care.

And for good measure I have to ask the following question becsuse it is so cool: Have YOU gone to public school? Man, I am one cool customer!!!



I answered your latter question about 5 posts above. And what exactly do your poor studying habits have to do with people being denied healthcare?
7 ounce wonders, music and dogs that are not into beer

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fuck my fllow[sic] American, they can die, all that matters is my tax rate.



Now you're getting it.



That's sad, but that what you get with the "me, me, me" mentality.



And that "me, me, me" mentality is EXACTLY what you've been displaying all through this thread, Mike!!



Am I? I play by the rules. I complain about people who dont, but get same level of service that I have to pay for. I also see a system that favors those with money, and not the people its supposed to service. all I am saying is tht we need a more fair system.



Really? I see you complaining about people that didn't pay using the same system that you paid to use. Isn't that basically the argument between the pro/con socialized medicine - having to pay for other people's healthcare?



Not at all. We do not have socialized healthcare. We have rules. I play by them, others dont. If we had socialized healthcare I'd still play by the rules and complain about the people who dont.
7 ounce wonders, music and dogs that are not into beer

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The answer seems obvious to me. People like you who think health care should be an entitled right should spend the next 12 years training and hopefully passing the licensing boards to become doctors, so you can provide a better service.


...



Well we do have two doctors in my family. I chose a differnet route. I am working on my MBA.



Working on your MBA, that is all good. But lets say your earn a 4.0 GPA and I earn a 2.0 GPA due to poor study habits. "Thats not fair" I say. You should give me 1.0 of your GPA so I can have a 3.0. Sounds a lot like people asking me to pay for their health care.

And for good measure I have to ask the following question becsuse it is so cool: Have YOU gone to public school? Man, I am one cool customer!!!



I answered your latter question about 5 posts above. And what exactly do your poor studying habits have to do with people being denied healthcare?



Mike, are you being deliberately ignorant or do you truly not see the connection between the two?

People that CANNOT care for themselves or CANNOT work are already covered through Medicare/Medicaid. What this does is give even MORE welfare money (figuratively) to those who can work but won't. Look at the examples from our resident Docs talking about people coming to the ER for pregnancy tests instead of spending the $15 out of pocket.
Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

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I don't want government food - I was in the Army, and I'll tell you - I'd take McDonald's over an MRE any dya.

Government education? I had it, and it worked okay for me. I'll give it that.

Healthcare? Um, I'd prefer to stay out of government healthcare (ER's, etc) for just the reason you stated. I'd rather find a good private doctor and pay him or her to take care of me.



I hear you. Our model of government was established to preserve freedom; designed to give people the freedom and liberty to succeed, not to parent people by directly feeding and clothing and doctoring those that make poor choices.

In the extreme cases I agree, handicapped need a hand; but most of those whining are not handicapped.

A free market economy is supposed to provide freedom to engage the markets and make choices as individuals. It guarantees things like free speech, due process, representation, etc. A socialist and centrally planned economy on the other hand guarantees food, clothes, a house, etc; and in the process decreases incentives to do better on one's own. I like the former much better.

However, the issue at hand here seems to be long waits for urgent needs. That is definitely a problem, but is the result of how providers allocate their resources in response to the way services are requested and paid for. They are strapped by a system that gives way more care than anyone can pay.

My take on health care is that the industry has a very unique problem in that it is capable of delivering care at a level and at a price that collectively we can not yet afford. It would be the equivalent of someone developing some high tech gadget way before it's time, and everybody complaining because they can not afford it.

Crunching the numbers, IMO, really points in that direction. Take the total cost of all care, divide it into the population, and the number is staggering (as reflected by average family of 4 premiums that now approach $2K per month for a plan with a realistic deductible). If it were that gadget, the industry and the government would just say that each persaon can have one when they can personally afford it. But on an emotional topic like health care, which many people see as a right and not a personal responsibility, there is no easy solution.

If we want designer drugs for every ailment, miracle cures, outrageous life-extending procedures for the elderly, fast easy access for everybody, million dollar rewards for each individual failed attempt, free care for the poor, coverage for experimental/unproven/highly questionable care, and so on and so forth - the price is $100's of dollars per month for every man, woman & child in the country.

IMO, medical care has progressed much faster than society's ability to pay. (I had cervical vertabral fusion last summer. I was in the system for 30 hours, 24 of those spent just lying in a bed. The price tag was $44K. That's ridiculous).

Interesting aside - - left off the short list of things a government should do: Protect our borders. To me, that is #1.
" . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

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You can have government run health care while controlling abuse.



Our personal healthcare decisions should be between us as individuals and our chosen health professionals, not politicians or gov't bureaucrats and regulators hamhandedly trying to 'control abuse', whatever that means.



And you are free to do that if you seek private health insurance. Those who take the government version accept whatever rules apply to them.
My biggest handicap is that sometimes the hole in the front of my head operates a tad bit faster than the grey matter contained within.

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I don't think you want to discuss or debate the issues. "I'm right" is your cry and anyone that doesn't side with you is selfish. There is no looking at how to resolve this.



Well this is speakers corner after all
My biggest handicap is that sometimes the hole in the front of my head operates a tad bit faster than the grey matter contained within.

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The answer seems obvious to me. People like you who think health care should be an entitled right should spend the next 12 years training and hopefully passing the licensing boards to become doctors, so you can provide a better service.


...



Well we do have two doctors in my family. I chose a differnet route. I am working on my MBA.



Working on your MBA, that is all good. But lets say your earn a 4.0 GPA and I earn a 2.0 GPA due to poor study habits. "Thats not fair" I say. You should give me 1.0 of your GPA so I can have a 3.0. Sounds a lot like people asking me to pay for their health care.

And for good measure I have to ask the following question becsuse it is so cool: Have YOU gone to public school? Man, I am one cool customer!!!



I answered your latter question about 5 posts above. And what exactly do your poor studying habits have to do with people being denied healthcare?



Mike, are you being deliberately ignorant or do you truly not see the connection between the two?

People that CANNOT care for themselves or CANNOT work are already covered through Medicare/Medicaid. What this does is give even MORE welfare money (figuratively) to those who can work but won't. Look at the examples from our resident Docs talking about people coming to the ER for pregnancy tests instead of spending the $15 out of pocket.



We are supposed to be the greatest empire in thwe world and yet you hear stories like TK's all the time. People often get turend down for medical help becuase they cant afford insurance. What kind of an empire are we really when we cant even keep our own people healthy. Sick people don't work, and that's never good for the economy.

Edited to add: I think it was you who asked me in previous posts why its in the best interest of the government to keep its people healthy and educated. Here is one of your answers: Sick people don't work, and that's never good for the economy.
7 ounce wonders, music and dogs that are not into beer

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Most people in this country cannot have insurance if you have heart problems. Isn't it fucked up in itself?



If that were actually quantified with some numbers, you'd find "most" an extremely inaccurate term to use there.

Since roughly half the population has employer sponsored insurance, and those plans are in general prohibited from declining or cancelling coverage for health reasons, the statement is patently untrue.

Also, over half the states have guaranteed issue high risk pools for people that can not qualify; with the irony that they are so heavily subsidized in some places they are sometimes cheaper than the commercial plans.

There are loopholes that are abused. Most of those are in place because of powerful special-interest employer or industry groups that got themselves exempted from many rules. The first thing that needs to be done to clean up health care and health care financing is to completely level the playing field. No more loopholes in the rules for certain employers, business groups, government employees, insurers, provider specialties, states, unions, etc.
" . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

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The answer seems obvious to me. People like you who think health care should be an entitled right should spend the next 12 years training and hopefully passing the licensing boards to become doctors, so you can provide a better service.


...



Well we do have two doctors in my family. I chose a differnet route. I am working on my MBA.



Working on your MBA, that is all good. But lets say your earn a 4.0 GPA and I earn a 2.0 GPA due to poor study habits. "Thats not fair" I say. You should give me 1.0 of your GPA so I can have a 3.0. Sounds a lot like people asking me to pay for their health care.

And for good measure I have to ask the following question becsuse it is so cool: Have YOU gone to public school? Man, I am one cool customer!!!



I answered your latter question about 5 posts above. And what exactly do your poor studying habits have to do with people being denied healthcare?



Mike, are you being deliberately ignorant or do you truly not see the connection between the two?

People that CANNOT care for themselves or CANNOT work are already covered through Medicare/Medicaid. What this does is give even MORE welfare money (figuratively) to those who can work but won't. Look at the examples from our resident Docs talking about people coming to the ER for pregnancy tests instead of spending the $15 out of pocket.



We are supposed to be the greatest empire in thwe world and yet you hear stories like TK's all the time. People often get turend down for medical help becuase they cant afford insurance. What kind of an empire are we really when we cant even keep our own people healthy. Sick people don't work, and that's never good for the economy.



Stories like TKs are the exception. I have never known anyone to get turned dowm for medical care. We became a great country through hard work and industry. The entitlement "take care of me" generation is slowly chipping away at that.
The most terrifying words in the English language are: I'm from the government and I'm here to help.

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The answer seems obvious to me. People like you who think health care should be an entitled right should spend the next 12 years training and hopefully passing the licensing boards to become doctors, so you can provide a better service.


...



Well we do have two doctors in my family. I chose a differnet route. I am working on my MBA.



Working on your MBA, that is all good. But lets say your earn a 4.0 GPA and I earn a 2.0 GPA due to poor study habits. "Thats not fair" I say. You should give me 1.0 of your GPA so I can have a 3.0. Sounds a lot like people asking me to pay for their health care.

And for good measure I have to ask the following question becsuse it is so cool: Have YOU gone to public school? Man, I am one cool customer!!!



I answered your latter question about 5 posts above. And what exactly do your poor studying habits have to do with people being denied healthcare?



Mike, are you being deliberately ignorant or do you truly not see the connection between the two?

People that CANNOT care for themselves or CANNOT work are already covered through Medicare/Medicaid. What this does is give even MORE welfare money (figuratively) to those who can work but won't. Look at the examples from our resident Docs talking about people coming to the ER for pregnancy tests instead of spending the $15 out of pocket.



We are supposed to be the greatest empire in thwe world and yet you hear stories like TK's all the time. People often get turend down for medical help becuase they cant afford insurance. What kind of an empire are we really when we cant even keep our own people healthy. Sick people don't work, and that's never good for the economy.



Stories like TKs are the exception. I have never known anyone to get turned dowm for medical care. We became a great country through hard work and industry. The entitlement "take care of me" generation is slowly chipping away at that.

.

It's slowly chipping away at the "It's all about me" mentality.
7 ounce wonders, music and dogs that are not into beer

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Did YOU attend a public school or college?



When I was a toddler, my parents were shipwrecked off of the coast of africa and soon after attacked and eaten by a large cat of some kind. Thus leaving me to fend for myself.

I scratched out a meager existence on roots and bugs, and eventually learned to hunt.

At that point, being able to subsist on something more substantial, I had some leisure time to establish a form of written record keeping and then started developing knowledge through observation and experimentation.

Finally, I built a small nuclear craft and sailed for civilization. On reaching shore, I immediately took equivalency tests for basic education, medicine, engineering, and, of course, Ape Family and Liberal Arts Studies.

Thus my degrees are all earned on my own.



Ah, so were you on the B ark?
" . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

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Accepting a taxpayer subsidy is not being hypocritical. Accepting a taxpayer subsidized service but complaining about others who want a service provided by taxpayers IS hypocritical.



How does this relate to complaints about others who want *additional* services provided to them by taxpayers? I have not asked the government to give me anything beyond what it already does, so how is it hypocritical to complain about others who want more and more?

Blues,
Dave



Once you acknowledge that there's a line to be drawn somewhere, it's just a matter of opinion about where it should be drawn.

A well dressed lady walks into a swank hotel lounge and takes a seat at the bar. A nice looking gentleman is seated beside her. The two make small talk over a few drinks and really seem to hit it off. After a while the gentleman turns to the lady and asks “Say, would you spend the night with me in my suite tonight if I give you $500,000?

The lady looks a bit surprised but stops to think for a minute. After pondering the question for a bit she smiles and says she will do that. The gentleman immediately comes back with “How about one hour for $50? The lady jumps up from her seat and slaps the man across the face. “What do you think I am?” she retorts. The gentleman smiles slyly and says “Madam, you established what you are. We are now negotiating the price”.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

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