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Fuck you American healthcare system

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Yes, and then I could be a good little prolateriat and make lots of money for the fascist corps you love so much.

Well, if you're expecting other people to pay your bills, then you could at least not squander what little you earn on your own. Maybe making at least an *effort* to not waste what you earn while expecting others to foot your bill would be a good thing. At least then maybe those of us who work over 100 hours a week to cover your expenses and our own would be more willing to help you out of a jam.




Heading the charge of elitism are a doctor and a lawyer...... you'll have to excuse me if I'm just a shade less than totally shocked.

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Yes, and then I could be a good little prolateriat and make lots of money for the fascist corps you love so much.

Well, if you're expecting other people to pay your bills, then you could at least not squander what little you earn on your own. Maybe making at least an *effort* to not waste what you earn while expecting others to foot your bill would be a good thing. At least then maybe those of us who work over 100 hours a week to cover your expenses and our own would be more willing to help you out of a jam.




Heading the charge of elitism are a doctor and a lawyer...... you'll have to excuse me if I'm just a shade less than totally shocked.



I hear North Korea is nice this time of year, plus they have that socialist system you have such a raging hard-on for...
Illinois needs a CCW Law. NOW.

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Indeed. We are naturally self-centered.

So policies attempting to go against human nature, which require us to consider everyone else before ourselves, will meet resisistance and will likely fail.

It's why campaigns for national health care don't focus on the benefits to society. They focus on the benefits to you. "Sure, you'll pay into this system, but here's what you get. Behind curtain No. 2 - emergency room care available on demand!"



You are right. And there is one of the problems. I think the job of the federal governemnt is to focus on a society and look at the big picture. However, we live in a very individualistic culture, and we do not care as a mass about the "health" of the society, but are rather concerned about "me, me, me." We need to look at solutions that find a good medium between how individuals benefit, and the long term benefit to the society.

And if all fails, we need to simply get together and have one big cook out (I'll do the pork shuolders) :P:P:P


Not to parrot the dickheads, of course not the sweethearts here, but, let's say other dickheads advocating you to move, perhaps you should. I want to and I'm a born American. It won't change, let the selfish scum work itself out here and either implode or fix itself. I'd love to watch from afar as it does either. Then I could post that I did move :P. I will someday, hopefully in the next 5 years.


See ya! Sell me your guns for $1/ea. before you go!


And that dollar will yield me 15 or 20 cents to where I might go....lovely:S

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We pay less tax than most other countries.



GOOD!

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Uh, BTW, universal care would be HEAVILY DWARFED by your president's military.



Yeah, lemme call George's cell, I'll get that taken care of.

Don't chase sunk costs, and don't use it as an excuse to get your prostate exam or Viagra paid for by me...



So you agree that military expenditures are the real problem. Me too. Tell me, how is it so bad that countries have uni care, the same ones that are kicking our dollar in the ass? No one has yet to answer that one.

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>>>>>>>>>>>>>No, I wouldn't. I've been taught how to take care of myself and if I was destitute; I've got family who would step in.

So for those who are missing limbs and/or have no family, well, fuck em according to you. It's nice that you have a support system, but what about Satan's hethans who don't? I agree, to the trash with em

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>What the hell does me being a Christian have to do with this topic? Don't assume what I believe in regard to darwinism.

It has to do that you love the socioeconomic aspect of Darwin, just not the actual aspect as it applies to the theory of the formation of man.


>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Here's a suggestion for you: Give up skydiving, sell your gear, disconnect your internet and perhaps you'll have enough money to buy your own insurance and not have to bitch about the 'system' not taking care of you.


Yes, and then I could be a good little prolateriat and make lots of money for the fascist corps you love so much.



You obviously don't know me at all and that's fine with me. Assume what you want.

You seem like a very angry and unhappy person. I'll keep you in my prayers. Perhaps things will get better for you.



My assertion stands,you want Darwinsim in the streets, not in schools or in the church...... that's hypocrisy. Hmmmmmm, and I thought Jesus wanted us to help our fellow man. Guess not....damn Jebus >:(

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Yes, and then I could be a good little prolateriat and make lots of money for the fascist corps you love so much.

Well, if you're expecting other people to pay your bills, then you could at least not squander what little you earn on your own. Maybe making at least an *effort* to not waste what you earn while expecting others to foot your bill would be a good thing. At least then maybe those of us who work over 100 hours a week to cover your expenses and our own would be more willing to help you out of a jam.




Heading the charge of elitism are a doctor and a lawyer...... you'll have to excuse me if I'm just a shade less than totally shocked.



I hear North Korea is nice this time of year, plus they have that socialist system you have such a raging hard-on for...



Why is it that R's have to go to Asia or Africa to find worse places? Let's talk Europe, esp Scandinavia.

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Tell me, how is it so bad that countries have uni care, the same ones that are kicking our dollar in the ass? No one has yet to answer that one.



What about times when the dollar was stronger than most of these other currencies? How does whether or not we or they had uni care make any difference?

As for those who think people against uni care are selfish, why is it that healthcare is too expensive when it's coming out of their own pocket, but not too expensive when it's coming out of everyone else's (taxpayer's) pocket?

To quote you Lucky if I may: "No one has yet to answer that one."
Ohne Liebe sind wir nichts

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Tell me, how is it so bad that countries have uni care, the same ones that are kicking our dollar in the ass? No one has yet to answer that one.



What about times when the dollar was stronger than most of these other currencies? How does whether or not we or they had uni care make any difference?

As for those who think people against uni care are selfish, why is it that healthcare is too expensive when it's coming out of their own pocket, but not too expensive when it's coming out of everyone else's (taxpayer's) pocket?



Do you drive on public roads? If so, why? Why don't you provide for yourself?
...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

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>>>>>>>>>>>>>Say what you want about the Canadian system, and sure, Canadians gripe about it too, but NO ONE in Canada would give it up for a privatized system......


And if people tried it here it would be here to stay, that's what worries the NAzis



Have you ever been to the DMV? I have, and I've seen how well the government takes care of the governed. I have zero interest in seeing my healthcare decline to that level of service. I've worked hard all my life, and have earned my good job, decent insurance, and some level of freedom in making my healthcare decisions. Why do you think the quality of my healthcare should decline? Why do you think I should be responsible for paying for the healthcare of people who haven't worked as hard as I have?

I'm not opposed to the idea of basic healthcare being available and affordable to everyone, provided it has substantial controls in place to prevent abuse, but I'm quite opposed to any sort of mandatory system, or being required to pay for stupid shit. A gal I know who works in the ER routinely sees women come in for pregnancy tests. On the nights she's working triage, she points out the door at the Rite-Aid across the street and suggests they pick up a pregnancy test there for 10 or 15 bucks instead of burning through several hundred in the ER. The answer is always some variant of the same thing..."Yeah, but the state won't pay for that and they will pay for this."

I don't want to support that kind of selfish fucktardedness.

Blues,
Dave



That's a wild assumption. People here have already stated that the US system is worse in ways, equal at best. Again, I agree, fuck my fllow American, they can die, all that matters is my tax rate.



1 - Some people may have said the US system is worse in ways, equal at best, but others have said the US system is better. Did you catch the part where wealthier Canadians come down here and pay cash for their healthcare?

2 - You may not care if your fellow Americans die, but I do. That's why I said everyone should have access to affordable basic healthcare. That does not include pregnancy tests on demand, breast enhancements, lasik surgery, and a host of other costs that should be borne by the people requesting them.

Blues,
Dave
"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)

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Yes, and then I could be a good little prolateriat and make lots of money for the fascist corps you love so much.

Well, if you're expecting other people to pay your bills, then you could at least not squander what little you earn on your own. Maybe making at least an *effort* to not waste what you earn while expecting others to foot your bill would be a good thing. At least then maybe those of us who work over 100 hours a week to cover your expenses and our own would be more willing to help you out of a jam.




Heading the charge of elitism are a doctor and a lawyer two people who worked much harder than most to get where they are, one of whom has far more knowledge of healthcare than me...... you'll have to excuse me if I'm just a shade less than totally shocked.



Fixed it for ya.

Blues,
Dave
"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)

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You know.. what is really interesting is soooo many of those who do not want to pay for others .. would expect others to pay for them should they become unemployable..like if they got a major illness and they lose their insurace with their jobs.

There are a great number of Americans who dont realize how close they are to finding themselves in the same situations.. that they rail on and on about when basic health care is brought up.

Personally I think I would rather live in a society willing to spend a little to keep us ALL a little healthier..A yearrly exam can find all kinds of nasty stuff that the sickly can be passing along to others... becuase they have not been to a doctor in years...lots of communcable diseases like TB.

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Personally I think I would rather live in a society willing to spend a little to keep us ALL a little healthier

Yeah, but, ya know -- I can really understand being irritated at someone who wants a pregnancy test done at the ER because that way they don't have to pay the $15.

Wendy W.
There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

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Do you drive on public roads? If so, why? Why don't you provide for yourself?



Because what Adam Smith had to say about what gov't can best do and best stay out of makes the most sense to me and the way I watch the world work.

Roads of course fall into the category of a durable public works infrastructure. For all of its inefficiencies, gov't is probably the best mechanism for us sharing the cost of building, maintaining, and improving it for our collective use. Better certainly than each of us constructing and connecting our own 1/2 mile stretches of road.

Healthcare is a personal service some need more or less of. Some can pay for it straight up, and some can engage an insurance company who's willing to underwrite the risk for the payment of a fee. I (and Adam Smith too) think we as a civilized society owe it to ourselves to ensure the poorest and most in need get it (and they already do). But that's a long way from handing the whole thing over to the gov't removing any remaining incentives for waste protection and personal responsibility. Even in countries with uni health care, many examples of those who get good care when they need it are often those who go outside the system for their own extra personal cost. I'll let you guess why they do that.

If I'm guessing where you're going with this correctly, why stop at healthcare? Why shouldn't gov't then provide all of us with food, clothing, and other things we all need and use?
Ohne Liebe sind wir nichts

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Healthcare is a personal service some need more or less of. Some can pay for it straight up, and some can engage an insurance company who's willing to underwrite the risk for the payment of a fee. I (and Adam Smith too) think we as a civilized society owe it to ourselves to ensure the poorest and most in need get it (and they already do). But that's a long way from handing the whole thing over to the gov't removing any remaining incentives for waste protection and personal responsibility. Even in countries with uni health care, many examples of those who get good care when they need it are often those who go outside the system for their own extra personal cost. I'll let you guess why they do that.



Alternately some may argue that health care coverage may be something that could naturally be best served as a publicly run monopoly. If you want to avoid the abuse then put restrictions on how it is used. Nothing stopping people from buying private health care above and beyond. We have public and private schools. Society just needs the balls to know where to draw the line on how something is used (at the risk of incurring special interest backlash) rather than not have it because there is a slippery slope to abuse.
My biggest handicap is that sometimes the hole in the front of my head operates a tad bit faster than the grey matter contained within.

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***Personally I think I would rather live in a society willing to spend a little to keep us ALL a little healthier

Yeah, but, ya know -- I can really understand being irritated at someone who wants a pregnancy test done at the ER because that way they don't have to pay the $15.

Then put restrictions on what is covered and how the service can be used. Health care does not have to be abused. You can have government run health care while controlling abuse.
My biggest handicap is that sometimes the hole in the front of my head operates a tad bit faster than the grey matter contained within.

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You can have government run health care while controlling abuse.



Our personal healthcare decisions should be between us as individuals and our chosen health professionals, not politicians or gov't bureaucrats and regulators hamhandedly trying to 'control abuse', whatever that means.
Ohne Liebe sind wir nichts

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You can have government run health care while controlling abuse.



Our personal healthcare decisions should be between us as individuals and our chosen health professionals, not politicians or gov't bureaucrats and regulators hamhandedly trying to 'control abuse', whatever that means.



And therein lies my reason for not wanting it to be mandatory. I believe that optional, affordable, basic healthcare with controls to prevent abuse is what I advocated in my first or second post in this thread.

Blues,
Dave
"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)

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>>>>>>>>>>>>>A non-self-centered person would turn away that free education opportunity. More accurate is, "It's funny that those who chastise the self-centered want others to give them more."


No, a non-self-centered person would want all of society cared for equally.



No, a non-self-centered person wouldn't "want" anything! "Want" is a selfish thing. A selfish person would fight for that.

Non-selfish people just don't give a shit.

At a minimum, "selflessness" is doing with yours and not with that of others. So, again, how many families are you paying health care for? Yes, including your own. Selfishness is telling others to do what you won't do yourself. Selfishness is also self-anointing.

You are selfishness defined. And, it's no insult. There's nothing wrong with that. The only thing wrong is insisting that you are not.


My wife is hotter than your wife.

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A gal I know who works in the ER routinely sees women come in for pregnancy tests. On the nights she's working triage, she points out the door at the Rite-Aid across the street and suggests they pick up a pregnancy test there for 10 or 15 bucks instead of burning through several hundred in the ER. The answer is always some variant of the same thing..."Yeah, but the state won't pay for that and they will pay for this."



This is a prime example of why I should not have my pocket picked for others' healthcare.

Shit heads.



We live in a community, and not some self centered world. If we have any human in us, by nature we want to help others. Some cultures are brought up that way, others are not. I like to believe that when someone needs help, I'm there for them.



It's funny that most of the extremely self-centered individuals posting here were also beneficiaries of a taxpayer subsidized education.



How many times are you going to make the same point?



As long as hypocrisy keeps raising its ugly head.



So you're going to be paying EXTRA GA user fees, since you're not self-centered, right??
Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

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Yeah I was upset to see a room full of {{people}} feeding off a system I have to pay into, and getting the same care I was hoping to get (though I gave up after 4 hours). But that's the way it is.



isn't that the very definition of socialized medicine?



No, in socialized medicine everyone has the opportunity to get the same help. No one is turned down because they dont have insurance.



No, they're just turned down because the gov't insurance agency decides it's too expensive.
Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

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To all:

Where does it stop? We pay enough tax as it is. I have no problem sustaining the existing (albeit too heavy) tax burden, but...

When does all this socialist bullshit stop? Healthcare would dwarf most any other social program.

Take care of your own fucking needs.

Enough is enough.



We pay less tax than most other countries. Uh, BTW, universal care would be HEAVILY DWARFED by your president's military. Since the war we've spent about 700B per year counting normal spending and war appropriations. Uni care would be what, 1/2 that? Try again...... 700B....enough is too much.



No, it would be added into all the OTHER welfare spending that is the largest part of the budget...
Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

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Tell me, how is it so bad that countries have uni care, the same ones that are kicking our dollar in the ass? No one has yet to answer that one.



What about times when the dollar was stronger than most of these other currencies? How does whether or not we or they had uni care make any difference?

As for those who think people against uni care are selfish, why is it that healthcare is too expensive when it's coming out of their own pocket, but not too expensive when it's coming out of everyone else's (taxpayer's) pocket?



Do you drive on public roads? If so, why? Why don't you provide for yourself?



I do - the gas taxes I pay at the pump pay for MY use of the roads. By your logic, I should pay part of everyone's fill-up as well as my own.
Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

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