mnealtx 0
rehmwa 2
QuoteReally? How come I haven't heard such an outcry about pollution credits from you before Gore, then?
er, because:
Butters didn't join this website until last year
Butters was likely in high school or earlier when Reagan was president
I'm not even sure DZ.com was in existence when Reagan was president
The thread topic is "Carbon Offsets"
you need any more?
How come I haven't seen YOU give outcry about pollution credits? nothing, nada, zilch
I'm also very disappointed to see you express zero outrage over Grover Cleveland tasing those rapscallions in Chicago.
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Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants
kallend 1,621
Quote
How come I haven't seen YOU give outcry about pollution credits? nothing, nada, zilch
.
Why should I? I believe in a free market. Pollution credits (whether for CO2 or SO2) seem like a good idea to me IF they're properly implemented. The right wing outrage ONLY started after Gore was found to be using them. THAT is hypocrisy. (Rather like Bush's attack on earmarks only after the Dems won Congress).
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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
rehmwa 2
QuoteI believe in a free market.
good one
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Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants
AWL71 0
QuoteQuote
How come I haven't seen YOU give outcry about pollution credits? nothing, nada, zilch
.
Why should I? I believe in a free market. Pollution credits (whether for CO2 or SO2) seem like a good idea to me IF they're properly implemented. The right wing outrage ONLY started after Gore was found to be using them. THAT is hypocrisy. (Rather like Bush's attack on earmarks only after the Dems won Congress).
Then you had better start saving your pennies to buy pollution credits for all the stinky flatulence you spew all over this forum.
I am not responsible for the above statement. The vast right wing conspiracy made me do it.
The most terrifying words in the English language are: I'm from the government and I'm here to help.
QuoteHow come I haven't heard such an outcry about pollution credits from you before Gore, then?
Because NOBODY BEFORE GORE GOT A NOBEL PEACE PRIZE FOR PROSELYTIZING WHILE ACTING IN OPPOSITE TO HIS STATEMENTS.
I complained that Arafat got one - a terrorist receiving a peace prize?
Would the Dalai Lama receive a peace prize for advocating nonviolence if he occasionally massacred people?
What if Nelson Mandela, awarded a peace prize for his efforts to create democracy and end apartheid, assumed a dictatorship and kept whites down in a race-based system?
Or if Jody Williams assumed the controlling shares of stock in the highly profitable "Bouncing Betty International Land Mine Company - providing quality antipersonnel mines to the world for 60 years."
Or if Linus Pauling leased his Nevada Desert Property to the Military to conduct nuclear weapons testing?
Or if Mother Teresa was known to forcibly eject the destitute from her palaces?
My wife is hotter than your wife.
kallend 1,621
So let me understand: pollution credits, the idea of the right, supported by the GOP, implemented under Nixon, Ford, Reagan, and Bush1, are now anathema to the right and the work of the devil.
OK, I understand completely.
OK, I understand completely.
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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
billvon 2,384
.thumb.jpg.4bb795e2eaf21b8b300039a5e1ec7f92.jpg)
>Because NOBODY BEFORE GORE GOT A NOBEL PEACE PRIZE . . .
I think hatin' on Gore, while fun, detracts from rational discussion.
Nixon's actions did not mean that all republicans are crooks. Craig's actions do not mean that all republicans patronize gay hookers. Jefferson's bribe taking did not mean that all democrats have money in their freezers.
Carbon trading/carbon credits are concepts that preceded Gore and has little to do with him (other than his advocacy of it.) There are pluses and minuses to both; the primary issues have little to do with an overweight former VP.
I think hatin' on Gore, while fun, detracts from rational discussion.
Nixon's actions did not mean that all republicans are crooks. Craig's actions do not mean that all republicans patronize gay hookers. Jefferson's bribe taking did not mean that all democrats have money in their freezers.
Carbon trading/carbon credits are concepts that preceded Gore and has little to do with him (other than his advocacy of it.) There are pluses and minuses to both; the primary issues have little to do with an overweight former VP.
rehmwa 2
McDonald's has all the calorie and food information available on it's website
They call it "Nutrition" information - despite the fact that a #1 value meal (medium) uses up most of my day's calorie budget with little extras except sodium and fats.
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Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants
They call it "Nutrition" information - despite the fact that a #1 value meal (medium) uses up most of my day's calorie budget with little extras except sodium and fats.
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Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants
I love the people on here with thousands (+) of jumps, basically wasted fuel and added greenhouse gasses for ones own amusement, arguing about how they are helping the environment.
What a crock of shit.
Keep up the hypocrisy.
What a crock of shit.
Keep up the hypocrisy.
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"From the mightiest pharaoh to the lowliest peasant,
who doesn't enjoy a good sit?" C. Montgomery Burns
"From the mightiest pharaoh to the lowliest peasant,
who doesn't enjoy a good sit?" C. Montgomery Burns
rehmwa 2
QuoteWhat a crock of shit.
It's called a "Value Meal"
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Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants
billvon 2,384
> I love the people on here with thousands (+) of jumps, basically wasted fuel . . .
You seem to think that the only "valid" environmentalist is one who freezes in the dark while doing nothing. And that is COMPLETELY missing the point.
Want to have a big house with a bigscreen TV and a computer that's on all the time? Fine. Get a solar power system. Or buy your power from a wind farm to offset it that way. Or buy carbon credits to offset it that way.
Want to skydive? Put in a solar power system at the DZ so they burn less propane. Net result is that because of you there is STILL less fuel used overall. Or buy carbon credits so someone else can do the same.
The key is not to do nothing. The key is to do what you want - sustainably.
You seem to think that the only "valid" environmentalist is one who freezes in the dark while doing nothing. And that is COMPLETELY missing the point.
Want to have a big house with a bigscreen TV and a computer that's on all the time? Fine. Get a solar power system. Or buy your power from a wind farm to offset it that way. Or buy carbon credits to offset it that way.
Want to skydive? Put in a solar power system at the DZ so they burn less propane. Net result is that because of you there is STILL less fuel used overall. Or buy carbon credits so someone else can do the same.
The key is not to do nothing. The key is to do what you want - sustainably.
You seem to think that the only "valid" environmentalist is one who freezes in the dark while doing nothing. And that is COMPLETELY missing the point.
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No my point is that you cannot be both an environmentalist and a skydiver at the same time. Skydiving is purely for fun, and a waste of fuel.
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Want to skydive? Put in a solar power system at the DZ so they burn less propane. Net result is that because of you there is STILL less fuel used overall. Or buy carbon credits so someone else can do the same.
______________________________________________________________
Again if you skydive you are still using MORE fuel than need be. You can buy all the carbon credits you want but YOU are still wasting fuel for your own amusement. Not very environmentally sound.
_________________________________________________________________
No my point is that you cannot be both an environmentalist and a skydiver at the same time. Skydiving is purely for fun, and a waste of fuel.
____________________________________________________________
Want to skydive? Put in a solar power system at the DZ so they burn less propane. Net result is that because of you there is STILL less fuel used overall. Or buy carbon credits so someone else can do the same.
______________________________________________________________
Again if you skydive you are still using MORE fuel than need be. You can buy all the carbon credits you want but YOU are still wasting fuel for your own amusement. Not very environmentally sound.
------------------------------------------------------
"From the mightiest pharaoh to the lowliest peasant,
who doesn't enjoy a good sit?" C. Montgomery Burns
"From the mightiest pharaoh to the lowliest peasant,
who doesn't enjoy a good sit?" C. Montgomery Burns
kallend 1,621
QuoteYou seem to think that the only "valid" environmentalist is one who freezes in the dark while doing nothing. And that is COMPLETELY missing the point.
_________________________________________________________________
No my point is that you cannot be both an environmentalist and a skydiver at the same time. Skydiving is purely for fun, and a waste of fuel.
____________________________________________________________
Want to skydive? Put in a solar power system at the DZ so they burn less propane. Net result is that because of you there is STILL less fuel used overall. Or buy carbon credits so someone else can do the same.
______________________________________________________________
Again if you skydive you are still using MORE fuel than need be. You can buy all the carbon credits you want but YOU are still wasting fuel for your own amusement. Not very environmentally sound.
Wrong. Provided you can live, work, skydive, water ski, or whatever, SUSTAINABLY, then you are not adding to the planet's problems. Pollution credits are one mechanism for enabling a sustainable lifestyle.
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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
billvon 2,384
>No my point is that you cannot be both an environmentalist and a skydiver
>at the same time. Skydiving is purely for fun, and a waste of fuel.
Right. And you can't drive a car if you're an environmentalist, because it's a waste of energy. And you can't eat meat if you're an environmentalist because it takes at least 10x the energy to grow a pound of meat as to grow a pound of corn. And you can't have air conditioning, or heat, or hot water, or electricity, or clothing - because all those are wastes of energy, and you can live without them.
I call bullshit. You can do whatever you like, whenever you like. That's called freedom. You can also _choose_ to do those things so that they do not adversely impact the environment. That's called environmentalism.
>You can buy all the carbon credits you want but YOU are still wasting fuel
>for your own amusement. Not very environmentally sound.
Someone who buys carbon credits and skydives is producing less carbon than you are. Someone who generates their own power, feeds the excess back and skydives is using less energy than you are. In other words, they are more environmentally sound.
>at the same time. Skydiving is purely for fun, and a waste of fuel.
Right. And you can't drive a car if you're an environmentalist, because it's a waste of energy. And you can't eat meat if you're an environmentalist because it takes at least 10x the energy to grow a pound of meat as to grow a pound of corn. And you can't have air conditioning, or heat, or hot water, or electricity, or clothing - because all those are wastes of energy, and you can live without them.
I call bullshit. You can do whatever you like, whenever you like. That's called freedom. You can also _choose_ to do those things so that they do not adversely impact the environment. That's called environmentalism.
>You can buy all the carbon credits you want but YOU are still wasting fuel
>for your own amusement. Not very environmentally sound.
Someone who buys carbon credits and skydives is producing less carbon than you are. Someone who generates their own power, feeds the excess back and skydives is using less energy than you are. In other words, they are more environmentally sound.
Call bullshit all you want.
Wearing clothes, or using heat to keep you warm is not in the same ballpark as skydiving.
Skydiving is a PURE waste of energy. Pepople do not need to skydive to live. However people do need cloths, warmth, and sometime cool air to live. That is the difference. when someone heats their house so as not to freeze, that is not a waste of fuel. When someone jumps out of a plane for their own amusement, that is a WASTE of energy. It does not matter that the person is environmentally responsible in the rest of their life. that person is still wasting fuel.
You can spin it anyway you want, but you still are or have wasted alot of fuel for you own enjoyment.
Wearing clothes, or using heat to keep you warm is not in the same ballpark as skydiving.
Skydiving is a PURE waste of energy. Pepople do not need to skydive to live. However people do need cloths, warmth, and sometime cool air to live. That is the difference. when someone heats their house so as not to freeze, that is not a waste of fuel. When someone jumps out of a plane for their own amusement, that is a WASTE of energy. It does not matter that the person is environmentally responsible in the rest of their life. that person is still wasting fuel.
You can spin it anyway you want, but you still are or have wasted alot of fuel for you own enjoyment.
------------------------------------------------------
"From the mightiest pharaoh to the lowliest peasant,
who doesn't enjoy a good sit?" C. Montgomery Burns
"From the mightiest pharaoh to the lowliest peasant,
who doesn't enjoy a good sit?" C. Montgomery Burns
billvon 2,384
>Wearing clothes, or using heat to keep you warm is not in the same
>ballpark as skydiving.
So training Navy SEALS is a waste of energy - but keeping your house at 75F in the winter is not? An odd metric.
>Pepople do not need to skydive to live. However people do need cloths,
>warmth, and sometime cool air to live.
People ENJOY cool air. People lived for tens of thousands of years without air conditioning, so it's not a requirement for life. But since you are used to it, you decide that you "need it to live."
And there is nothing wrong with enjoying air conditioning, either. You can even do it in an environmentally sound fashion by using a swamp cooler and running the blower via a solar power system. (Or by using a refrigeration cycle cooler with even more air conditioning.)
>That is the difference. when someone heats their house so as not to
>freeze, that is not a waste of fuel.
I contend that when someone heats their house to 75F in the winter, that's as much of a "waste" as skydiving. They do not need their house at 75F. They do it because they enjoy the extra warmth.
And again, there's nothing wrong with that. Use a geothermal heat pump and buy your power from a 100% wind-sourced power company.
>You can spin it anyway you want, but you still are or have wasted alot of
>fuel for you own enjoyment.
By your criteria - so have you. The difference is that I am willing to do something about it, because I think that's the right thing to do. If you decide that makes me a hypocrite, so be it. I've been called worse.
>ballpark as skydiving.
So training Navy SEALS is a waste of energy - but keeping your house at 75F in the winter is not? An odd metric.
>Pepople do not need to skydive to live. However people do need cloths,
>warmth, and sometime cool air to live.
People ENJOY cool air. People lived for tens of thousands of years without air conditioning, so it's not a requirement for life. But since you are used to it, you decide that you "need it to live."
And there is nothing wrong with enjoying air conditioning, either. You can even do it in an environmentally sound fashion by using a swamp cooler and running the blower via a solar power system. (Or by using a refrigeration cycle cooler with even more air conditioning.)
>That is the difference. when someone heats their house so as not to
>freeze, that is not a waste of fuel.
I contend that when someone heats their house to 75F in the winter, that's as much of a "waste" as skydiving. They do not need their house at 75F. They do it because they enjoy the extra warmth.
And again, there's nothing wrong with that. Use a geothermal heat pump and buy your power from a 100% wind-sourced power company.
>You can spin it anyway you want, but you still are or have wasted alot of
>fuel for you own enjoyment.
By your criteria - so have you. The difference is that I am willing to do something about it, because I think that's the right thing to do. If you decide that makes me a hypocrite, so be it. I've been called worse.
Really? How come I haven't heard such an outcry about pollution credits from you before Gore, then?
You have demonstrated a double standard, however you choose to play it.
Actually, no... the double standard is the view that pollution credits (yesteryear's 'carbon offsets') are bad, and carbon offsets are good, when they both had the same aim.
My example about the Goreacle® is more illustrative of hypocrisy, actually...
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706