piper17 1 #51 January 25, 2008 Address the issue. How did these "working poor" get into their current position and what are they doing to improve their lot? Do they (you) expect someone to hand them a lucrative job just because? As someone who is getting close to retirement age, I have had to change careers a number of times, return to school for an advanced degree, and worked two jobs until I could land a much better job. Industries that I previously worked in disappeared. I could have sat on my ass and whined and moaned but I did what I had to do to adapt. Because some people have chosen to make bad choices in their lives doesn't give them a right to expect taxpayers to pay for those bad choices."A man can never have too much red wine, too many books, or too much ammunition"...Rudyard Kipling Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #52 January 25, 2008 QuoteClass envy? FU#$ U class envy. I have all the class I need. Wow...did I hit a nerve there, sparky? Got a bit of an issue with the truth? Class envy is exactly what the Dems are promoting...and you bought it hook, line and sinker...quite evident from your response, too. "Those damn rich people aren't paying their fair share!!!" The rich are paying more of the burden than they ever have, and the poor are paying less than they ever have. QuoteIt's about fairness and a shared prosperity. What??? What right do you have to help yourself to what *I* busted my ass to earn? Here's your "fairness and shared prosperity": "From each according to their ability, to each according to their need" Sound familiar?Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #53 January 25, 2008 QuoteI'm going to use my 1200.00 to pay for a trip to Eloy, pay for gas to get there, pay for jump tix, and pay for food cooked at the Bent Prop. It's not cheap crap from China, but it does help employ manifest, gas station attendants, the people at RI, PD, L&B, Square 2, Skyrider Inn, Chevy, Firestone, the cooks at the Bent Prop, their suppliers, Larry Hill, Betsy Barnhouse, and a host of others employed. Plus, I need wingsuit coaching from Scott Campos, so his flight, lodging, fuel, food all equal or surpass my efforts to keep the economy rolling... Actually, that's probably the BEST plan. Spend it where other people will spend it in the US in order to keep the money recirculating, but I fear that's probably NOT what the vast majority of folks are going to do.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
phipps66 0 #54 January 25, 2008 I'll most likely need the money to pay my income taxes Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DrewEckhardt 0 #55 January 25, 2008 Quote 2005: Amount of tax burden paid by highest quintile: 25.5% Amount of tax burden paid by lowest quintile: 4.3% Tax burden is the average tax rate with all things considered; that's an average tax rate not a share of taxes. As of 2000, 66% of income tax came from the top 10% (with 40% of income), 54% from the top 5% (with 29% of the income), and 34% from the top 1% (15.4% of income). By 2005, the numbers were 70% from the top 10% (46% of income), 60% from the top 5% (with 36% of income), and 39% from the top 1% (21%). Average tax rates were 18.8%, 20.8%, and 23.1% for the top 10, 5, and 1% with income spits of $104, $145, and $365K. In contrast, the bottom 50% of income earners pay just 3% of the income tax bill while earning 13% of the income with an average tax rate of 3% on income up to $31K a year. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,923 #56 January 25, 2008 QuoteQuoteHow in the hell will buying crap made in China create jobs in the US. Bingo! We have a winner! Yes, this was my point from the very start. The concept is stupid from the get go. Hey Paul, Since the money will be borrowed from China anyway, what the Hell?... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #57 January 25, 2008 QuoteQuote 2005: Amount of tax burden paid by highest quintile: 25.5% Amount of tax burden paid by lowest quintile: 4.3% Tax burden is the average tax rate with all things considered; that's an average tax rate not a share of taxes. As of 2000, 66% of income tax came from the top 10% (with 40% of income), 54% from the top 5% (with 29% of the income), and 34% from the top 1% (15.4% of income). By 2005, the numbers were 70% from the top 10% (46% of income), 60% from the top 5% (with 36% of income), and 39% from the top 1% (21%). Average tax rates were 18.8%, 20.8%, and 23.1% for the top 10, 5, and 1% with income spits of $104, $145, and $365K. In contrast, the bottom 50% of income earners pay just 3% of the income tax bill while earning 13% of the income with an average tax rate of 3% on income up to $31K a year. Thanks for pointing that out - I put numbers in for effective tax rate and not % of the overall tax burden.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zipp0 1 #58 January 25, 2008 QuoteQuoteClass envy? FU#$ U class envy. I have all the class I need. Wow...did I hit a nerve there, sparky? Got a bit of an issue with the truth? Class envy is exactly what the Dems are promoting...and you bought it hook, line and sinker...quite evident from your response, too. "Those damn rich people aren't paying their fair share!!!" The rich are paying more of the burden than they ever have, and the poor are paying less than they ever have. QuoteIt's about fairness and a shared prosperity. What??? What right do you have to help yourself to what *I* busted my ass to earn? Trust me dude, I'm not taking any of your money. I do just fine. But there's nothing that's more irritating than wealthy people complaining about taxes. They are WAAAAY more irritating than a poor person whining about wages decreasing relative to inflation. I just happen to think that the country would be in MUCH better shape if the poor were getting richer just a bit faster than the rich were getting richer. When you have a fat bank account, a $2 raise don't mean shit. When you have nothing, $2 is everything. -------------------------- Chuck Norris doesn't do push-ups, he pushes the Earth down. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,923 #59 January 25, 2008 QuoteQuoteQuote 2005: Amount of tax burden paid by highest quintile: 25.5% Amount of tax burden paid by lowest quintile: 4.3% Tax burden is the average tax rate with all things considered; that's an average tax rate not a share of taxes. As of 2000, 66% of income tax came from the top 10% (with 40% of income), 54% from the top 5% (with 29% of the income), and 34% from the top 1% (15.4% of income). By 2005, the numbers were 70% from the top 10% (46% of income), 60% from the top 5% (with 36% of income), and 39% from the top 1% (21%). Average tax rates were 18.8%, 20.8%, and 23.1% for the top 10, 5, and 1% with income spits of $104, $145, and $365K. In contrast, the bottom 50% of income earners pay just 3% of the income tax bill while earning 13% of the income with an average tax rate of 3% on income up to $31K a year. Thanks for pointing that out - I put numbers in for effective tax rate and not % of the overall tax burden. Willy Sutton effect strikes again.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #60 January 25, 2008 QuoteI just happen to think that the country would be in MUCH better shape if the poor were getting richer just a bit faster than the rich were getting richer. So, I'm presuming that you're donating part of your take-home pay in support of them, then.... sharing your prosperity and all that. QuoteWhen you have a fat bank account, a $2 raise don't mean shit. When you have nothing, $2 is everything. So your solution is to tax down the ones that would pay out that $2, so now they don't have it *to* pay out... brilliant!!Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,371 #61 January 25, 2008 The middle class has traditionally been seen as one of the strengths of the US. Having the rich get richer at a faster rate than the less-than-righ get richer serves to diminish the middle class. Why does it matter? Because life is harder when you start out poor, so you have to be better than a rich dude to get to the same place. When there is at least a decent middle class, then you have some reasonable aspirations. Not everyone is poor or rich because of their inherent superiority/inferiority, amount of work, or anything else. Where you came from impacts where you end up. Does hard work help? Of course. But yes, the increasingly obscene wealth of some of the rich probably does indicate some deeper problems. Wendy W.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #62 January 25, 2008 Better than a rich dude to get as rich as him? Yes. Better than a rich dude to pull yourself up to the middle class? No. ...indicate some deeper problems. Other than showing that capitalism is working just fine, what would those be?Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,371 #63 January 25, 2008 True dat. But if the middle class begins to disappear, then it's a problem. Wendy W.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,879 #64 January 25, 2008 >Spend it where other people will spend it in the US in order to keep the money recirculating. Hookers, strippers, booze and McDonald's, baby! All the things that make america great (and all things that help the local economy.) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
livendive 8 #65 January 25, 2008 QuoteQuote How in the hell will buying crap made in China create jobs in the US. China, Most Favored Nation courtesy of the last administration. I'm sure her Walmart stock made some nice money for Hillary. And I'm sure a big chunk of these "rebates" will be spent at said retailer. Blues, Dave"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!" (drink Mountain Dew) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #66 January 25, 2008 QuoteQuoteQuote How in the hell will buying crap made in China create jobs in the US. China, Most Favored Nation courtesy of the last administration. I'm sure her Walmart stock made some nice money for Hillary. And I'm sure a big chunk of these "rebates" will be spent at said retailer. Blues, Dave Probably so - it's not like the businesses that make that stuff can really afford to work in the States anymore...Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
piper17 1 #67 January 25, 2008 Funny but I have never found wealth to be obscene. I went to school to get an education, worked my entire adult life (starting at 16...not counting a paper route when I was 11) and have done reasonably well for myself. Bill Gates did not start out rich, nor did many other fabulously wealthy people. What they did was work, study, take risks, make good decisions, etc. This monetary envy in nothing new. We had the oil barons, the railroad barons, the automotive barons etc of the 19th and 20th century. We also had the same types of people envying their wealth and the same types of poorer people making lousy choices in life. Does government need to play a role in making sure that those getting rich do not engage in illegal activities to make their money, absolutely. It does not, however, need to create laws to take what they have accumulated in legal activities. I do not begrudge Bill Gates, Warren Buffet, and those of that ilk their wealth. Yes, I may be jealous of their monetary success but they earned it. Colin Powell was the son of Caribbean immigrants and did not come from wealth. He did, however, make good choices, went to school, worked hard (and took live-threatening risks in furtherance of his military career) and did pretty damn well for himself, including financially. You can come here from another country and start out poor but rise to the highest levels by doing the right things. Look at what welfare programs have done to the people they were supposed to help. Those programs devastated the family unit in the black community. Good intentions but terrible results. Government handouts are not going to solve the problems of bad choices and bad behavior by people. Taking from the rich and giving it to the poor may make an interesting novel but it doesn't work in the real world."A man can never have too much red wine, too many books, or too much ammunition"...Rudyard Kipling Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChickenSandwich 0 #68 January 25, 2008 Buying a tenga. http://www.tenga.co.jp/e/top.html Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zipp0 1 #69 January 25, 2008 QuoteQuoteI just happen to think that the country would be in MUCH better shape if the poor were getting richer just a bit faster than the rich were getting richer. So, I'm presuming that you're donating part of your take-home pay in support of them, then.... sharing your prosperity and all that. QuoteWhen you have a fat bank account, a $2 raise don't mean shit. When you have nothing, $2 is everything. So your solution is to tax down the ones that would pay out that $2, so now they don't have it *to* pay out... brilliant!! Just because a company COULD pay their emplyees a better wage and give them health benefits doesn't mean they WILL. Those at the top like their fat paychecks and will protect their own interests. When taxes on the rich went down, did the wages of the low level workers increase? According to you, they should have increased, since the corporations and big shots had more money in their pockets. NO. Wages for workers have gone DOWN as salaries at the top have gone UP. -------------------------- Chuck Norris doesn't do push-ups, he pushes the Earth down. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DSE 5 #70 January 25, 2008 Quote >Spend it where other people will spend it in the US in order to keep the money recirculating. Hookers, strippers, booze and McDonald's, baby! All the things that make america great (and all things that help the local economy.) Except that McDonalds is heavily invested in China/Macau...I'm all for the hookers, strippers, and booze, though. they keep police officers, social workers, jailers, towing companies, barley growers, tractor manufacturers, steel workers, carpet layers, and DJ's employed, to name but a few. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pirana 0 #71 January 25, 2008 Quote Nothing, I don't seem to qualify. So, you are one of those rich liberals!" . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andrewwhyte 1 #72 January 25, 2008 Remember people, Crack is imported, METH is 100% USA goodness. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pirana 0 #73 January 25, 2008 QuoteAs for those that will get "rebate", why not just reduce taxes further instead? Because that would mean ending programs and/or shutting down agencies. One thing about our mix of pork barrel politics and entitlement programs: Once one gets started, bringing it to an end is damn near impossible. Last time I looked (it has been a while , but . . . ) we still had a mohair subsidy. Now there is a critical industry in need of protection." . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pirana 0 #74 January 25, 2008 QuotePJ O'Rourke: QuoteImagine if all of life were determined by majority rule. Every meal would be a pizza. Every pair of pants, even those in a Brooks Brothers suit, would be stone-washed denim. Celebrity diet and exercise books would be the only thing on the shelves at the library. And since women are a majority of the population, we'd all be married to Mel Gibson. - P.J. O'Rourke, "Parliament of Whores" Good ole PJ - one of my favorite writers. I take it you've read Republican Party Reptile. One of his best stories, I think from the same book: Throngs of people at some sort of UN gathering in a 3rd world country, utter chaos and confusion. Somebody says to him, trying to be poignant "So this is what life is like in the entire 3rd world." To which he replies "No, this is what life is like anytime the UN is involved." Or something like that. The man has got some seriously funny wit." . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pirana 0 #75 January 25, 2008 QuoteQuotethe rich are still paying the lion's share of the tax burden First let apologize as I am jumping in to this discussion and I have not read every post. I do believe the Middle Class pay the biggest share of the total taxes is this not correct? No. I believe what I've read is that the top 1/4 pays 3/4 of the tax burden. It's close to an 80/20 rule. (Supported by mnealtx's corrected post). The bottom pays almost nothing. Sure they have some payroll deduction, but a huge portion of that gets returned at the end of the year." . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
