petrol $10 a gallon

[jakee 1,254]

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There's enough oil untapped, to power this world and 100 others like it, for eternity and beyond.

Really? Where? So all the folks mentioned in this Fox News article discussing the tipping point of oil are wrong?

Absolutely. You might try listening to someone actually "in the oil business", like some of the small independent oil producers.

Who are they, what do they say and where do they say it?

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[ExAFO 0]

My housecat poops too much.

Illinois needs a CCW Law. NOW.

[Flacid_Monk 0]

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My housecat poops too much.

stop fucking it up the arse then

[kschilk 0]

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How do you rationalise that point of view?

Do you think that there are infinite amounts of oil under the earth right now, or do you think that oil is being made at the same rate it is being pumped out? Or by 'never' do you just mean not in your lifetime?

Well, I'm banking on the assumption that the Earth won't last past the year 5000.
Seriously, I just threw that in to rattle some chains and get responses...I was bored. I doubt it's being made as fast as it's being pumped but I'm sure there's more than enough there, to last for a few thousand years or so. The refineries are running way below full capacity and they're still not taking in much, from the local producers...that oughta' tell ya' somethin'.

"T'was ever thus."

[ExAFO 0]

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My housecat poops too much.

stop fucking it up the arse then

Four things:
-The first letter of a word leading a sentence should be capitalized.
-A punctuation mark such as a period, question mark, or exclamation point should be at the end of a sentence.
-American English does not use "Arse." We use "Ass" for describing both the horse-like beast as well as buttocks.
-I don't sodomize my cat, and if someone was, it wouldn't increase the rate of said feline's defecations.

Illinois needs a CCW Law. NOW.

[billvon 2,380]

>The wells of which you speak were forcibly capped, under the direction of
>the U.S. government.

Wells have indeed been capped by the government (usually local.) One good example is the Nov 26th blowout of a Bridas Energy well near I-10 in Baton Rouge, LA. The local government ordered the well capped, since the piping going to it had exploded and almost destroyed some cars on the nearby highway. They also ordered a 120 day moratorium on drilling new oil and gas wells near interstates until they could figure out why that one blew.

But beyond specific well shutdowns for safety, environmental and monetary risks (like destroying a highway) - can you list wells that have been forcibly capped for no good reason?

>There is no oil shortage, there never was and likely never will be.

Then keep driving that SUV! Get another boat. You'll have no problems at all. The oil shortages of the 70's never happened, this one isn't happening, and none will happen in the future.

I hear 9/11 didn't really happen, either. Something about how Bush did it.

[nerdgirl 0]

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You might try listening to someone actually "in the oil business", like some of the small independent oil producers.

You mean like this guy: Mathew Simmons, founder & CEO of the oil services company Simmons & Company International.

(Met him & listened to him at the DoD-sponsored Energy Conversations series.)

Or this one: Peter Schwartz, who led scenario planning for Royal Dutch Shell in the 1980’s and more recently co-authored the DoD’s Abrupt Climate Change Scenario and Its Implications for United States National Security

Or this one: Colin Campbell (Association for the Study of Peak Oil and Gas (ASPO), who was an oil exploration geologist in the 1970s & 1980s, former chief geologist for Amoco, a vice-president of Fina) and who has asserted that world oil production will begin its decline between now and 2010, i.e., peak oil.

Or Beyond Petroleum’s (nee British Petroleum) Francis Harper, who asserts peak oil will occur between 2010 and 2020.

To which specific oil producers are you referring?

Here’s one commentary-style analysis that alleges peak oil is a contrivance of oil companies manipulating the market. Is this the argument that you want to make? I’m trying to help ya out here … I’m willing to entertain the issue if you can provide some sharable/public argument/evidence/something ...

Again, do you have sources or evidence suggesting otherwise?

VR/Marg

Act as if everything you do matters, while laughing at yourself for thinking anything you do matters.
Tibetan Buddhist saying

[Lucky... 0]

>>>>>>>>>>The only shortages on this planet, are in wisdom and common sense.

From a guy who likely voted for Bush

[Lucky... 0]

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The problem is: Clinton is not electable. She has far too much baggage and the right has been gearing up for eight years just to swift boat her. Also, she is now where Howard Dean was at this stage last time. Her fall will be quite spectacular.

Gearing up? By taking the debt from 5.5T and leaving it just under 10T? Leaving the world hating us? TRampling all over our const rights? Yea, great argument, how could anyone resist the rightwing nutjob party?

[Lucky... 0]

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There's enough oil untapped, to power this world and 100 others like it, for eternity and beyond.

Really? Where? So all the folks mentioned in this Fox News article discussing the tipping point of oil are wrong?

Working at Cirle K doesn't qualify as woking in the oil business

Absolutely. You might try listening to someone actually "in the oil business", like some of the small independent oil producers.

[billvon 2,380]

A few more:

ConocoPhillips CEO Jim Mulva:

"Talking a little bit about the supply challenge. This is a slide that's been prepared by International Energy Agency and it just shows if you take all of the oil production around the world today, say, 86 million barrels a day, the natural decline on average is about 8% a year.. . .So we have -- Demand maybe going up, but it's going to be constrained by supply."


From the WSJ:

"A growing number of oil-industry chieftains are endorsing an idea long deemed fringe: The world is approaching a practical limit to the number of barrels of crude oil that can be pumped every day.

Some predict that, despite the world's fast-growing thirst for oil, producers could hit that ceiling as soon as 2012. This rough limit -- which two senior industry officials recently pegged at about 100 million barrels a day -- is well short of global demand projections over the next few decades. Current production is about 85 million barrels a day."


And just to head off the usual "the environmentalists are keeping us from building new refineries so it's THEIR fault!" argument, here's a quote from the National Petrochemical and Refiners Association:

"This situation will ultimately be addressed through announced additions to U.S. refinery capacity, estimated at 1.4 to 2.0 million barrels per day. This is an 8-11 percent increase in U.S. capacity, which should be in place by 2010 at the latest…. over the past 10 years, domestic refining has increased by an average of 177,000 barrels per day of production each year or the equivalent of building one new, larger than average refinery each year. This fact should assuage some concerns about the fact that no new grassroots refinery has been built in the U.S. in over 30 years."

BP’s CEO: "Refinery margins over the last 10 to 15 years have not been high enough on average to justify building a new refinery.”

Mobil Oil: "no need to build new refineries" through 2030.

[Lucky... 0]

>>>>>>>>>>-I don't sodomize my cat, and if someone was, it wouldn't increase the rate of said feline's defecations.

You know a little toomuch about cat beastiality and cat defication.

[Tink1717 2]

Yeah, right. I couldn't believe they bought it after the first four years.

Skydivers don't knock on Death's door. They ring the bell and runaway... It really pisses him off.
-The World Famous Tink. (I never heard of you either!!)
AA #2069 ASA#33 POPS#8808 Swooo 1717

[Amazon 7]

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Then keep driving that SUV! Get another boat

Working on it

[kschilk 0]

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>>>>>>>>>>The only shortages on this planet, are in wisdom and common sense.

From a guy who likely voted for Bush

Nope.....the Afflack Duck, actually.

"T'was ever thus."

[kschilk 0]

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>
But beyond specific well shutdowns for safety, environmental and monetary risks (like destroying a highway) - can you list wells that have been forcibly capped for no good reason?

Sorry but all those you listed, well....it sounded like the line-up for a tap dancing marathon.
As for the well capping, none posed any personal or environmental hazards...not that I've ever heard of. Most of these were currently high-producing, well maintained sites. The DEP (Department of Employment Prevention), formerly the DER (Department of Employment Reduction), set out to cap a certain percentage of wells, condition or production volume apparently wasn't a consideration. The official word was supposed to be about 60% but I've heard it's more in the range of 75-90%, locally. I'm sure that through the Freedom Of Information act, you could get a list and maybe even a map of the capped sites.

"T'was ever thus."

[tbrown 26]

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I'm looking forward to the day it get's that high here in the US. A lot of americans won't change anything unless there is a lot of money involved. A lot rather choose to ignore global warming and the scarcity of oil than to get a smaller car...

We own a Honda Civic and a Nissan Versa.

If you're really THAT concerned, why do you waste the planet's petroleum on skydiving ?

Your humble servant.....Professor Gravity !

[DrewEckhardt 0]

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well..... over this side of the pond, we're currently paying £1.11 a litre for petrol.... that would be around $10 a gallon, would you pay that for it?

Short-term? Sure. I'll spend less on gas driving my 10-year old petrol powered paid off car than I would fuel + depreciation on a new alternate fuel vehicle.

Long-term? No. Brazillian ethanol is $1.80 a gallon.

[billvon 2,380]

>You're still talking more "big oil", the ones who profit hugely from
>the alleged shortage.

And the ones who supply and refine 95% of the country's oil.

> I mean the little producers . . .

. . . who don't sell oil and therefore don't profit hugely from the shortage (and subsequent increase in prices?)

>They're the ones I get my info from.

Have any specific examples?

>I'm sure that through the Freedom Of Information act, you could get a
>list and maybe even a map of the capped sites.

Sounds like a good conspiracy theory! Then when they prove hard to find you could have a cover-up too.

[kschilk 0]

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Who are they, what do they say and where do they say it?

These are all small, independent producers....the "little guys", that drill, pump & sell the stuff to the refineries. Most of them are old family businesses that have been in it, almost since the first well was drilled (Drake)....one of them owns the worlds oldest (still) producing oilwell....the McClintock #1.

"T'was ever thus."

[jakee 1,254]

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Who are they, what do they say and where do they say it?

These are all small, independent producers....the "little guys", that drill, pump & sell the stuff to the refineries. Most of them are old family businesses that have been in it, almost since the first well was drilled (Drake)....one of them owns the worlds oldest (still) producing oilwell....the McClintock #1.

Examples.

Who are they, what do they say and where do they say it?

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[kschilk 0]

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Who are they, what do they say and where do they say it?

These are all small, independent producers....the "little guys", that drill, pump & sell the stuff to the refineries. Most of them are old family businesses that have been in it, almost since the first well was drilled (Drake)....one of them owns the worlds oldest (still) producing oilwell....the McClintock #1.

Examples.

Who are they, what do they say and where do they say it?

They are who I mentioned above, they say what I've been posting here and they say it to me, wherever and whenever I see them....in the field, at my garage, at my house, at their house, when I see them on the street, talk to them on the phone, in various letters to the editor and articles in the local newspaper, while I'm crawling through the oil-soaked mud ....beating myself up, to fix their junk-assed equipment....that, btw....they could replace with better stuff, if they were able to tap and sell more of their oil. Without crayons, I doubt I can make it any clearer for ya'.

"T'was ever thus."

[jakee 1,254]

You could start by giving actual names and quoting actual statements.

It's kinda an accepted thing to be able to source extravagant claims like this, otherwise it's just so much second hand hearsay.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[kschilk 0]

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You could start by giving actual names and quoting actual statements.

It's kinda an accepted thing to be able to source extravagant claims like this, otherwise it's just so much second hand hearsay.

Like I said, these are small outfits....private individuals, not company execs. I can't publicly post names like that, without permission. If you wanna' take the time, I'm sure I could arrange meetings and such, if you want to visit the area. There's nothing extravagant here and I basically told you, it IS second-hand, kinda'....but so is the fiction and fantasy reported by the media, propogandized by the government and capitalized on by the big oil companies. I get my info from them, which I suppose makes me the second hand, here when they say it....I guess that would be second-hand heresay.

I guess I'm more inclined to believe the guys that are actually out there "in the field", than some basketweaving graduate, Starbucks groupie whose view of the world takes in little more, than the area between their plush, well-lit office and the closest water cooler. When the man says he has oil and shows me oil, I give 'em the benefit of the doubt. You come to me with a few hundred truckloads of oil shortage....that I can see, touch and smell, I'll likely rethink my position.

"T'was ever thus."

[jakee 1,254]

So if you 'can't say' who is telling you these things (are the men in black gonna turn up if you do?) can you answer Bill's question with a list of wells that have been forcibly capped? Or is that on a need to know basis as well?

I'm also curious as to why a small local oil producer is in a better position to know about global oil reserves than multinationals who operate in numerous different oil fields.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?