Parents suing Cessna - WA Caravan crash

[funjumper101 15]

I pulled this from the rec.aviation.piloting usenet newsgroup.

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The parents of Bryan Jones, a 34 year old Microsoft engineer who was one of nine skydivers killed in the crash of a Cessna Caravan, are suing Cessna. The Caravan was returning from Star, Idaho, to Shelton,
Washington. The parents are alleging that the Cessna Caravan was defective and should not have been flying in icy weather. The airplane is not certified for flight into known ice, although the plane in question did have boots.

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This really pisses me off.
Stinking lawyers and scumbag weasel shit parents.
The decision by the pilot to fly on into bad weather is what caused the accident. The Caravan didn't cause the accident.

This would be a good time to discuss with your families how you want them deal with your untimely departure, should that take place. Writing it down and making sure that everyone that matters has a copy would be a good thing. I have.
I put in my written directions is that if I die in a skydiving or GA accident, I don't want anyone suing anybody, no matter what happened. If someone goes ahead and and files a lawsuit anyway, in spite of my specific request NOT to, I promised that I would come back and haunt them forever, if it was at all possible. Everyone got the message and it was understood perfectly.

[Trent 0]

Please don't be too harsh on the parents. I can understand being angry and wanting to blame someone. I'm sure they know that winning any lawsuit won't bring their son back. Fire away on the lawyer though, because he's in it for the money, IMO.

As far as the lawsuit goes... I fail to see how flying a non-FIKI plane into known icing, marginal vfr at best weather, without talking to any controllers or en-route weather stations can be anything but the pilot's fault. Cessna did not force anyone to make the decision to fly in those conditions.

It's a terrible tragedy, I'm sure we all agree. Filing lawsuits like this will only make GA more and more restrictive and prohibitively expensive even if the suit is thrown out eventually. Thanks, lawyers!

Oh, hello again!

[wildfan75 1]

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I put in my written directions is that if I die in a skydiving or GA accident, I don't want anyone suing anybody, no matter what happened. If someone goes ahead and and files a lawsuit anyway, in spite of my specific request NOT to, I promised that I would come back and haunt them forever, if it was at all possible. Everyone got the message and it was understood perfectly.

I think this is a repost but you could always do what I did...my will states that if I die in anything skydiving related and if my family sues, the money from my estate goes whoever they are suing to defend themselves against my family.

[L.O. 0]

Can anyone out there come up with a better one then that. She had that in her will before her first year was up. This girl has it all figured out. Her 4-way team is 4th in A nationally to.

I love her.

HPDBs, I hate those guys.
AFB, charter member.

[kelpdiver 2]

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Can anyone out there come up with a better one then that. She had that in her will before her first year was up. This girl has it all figured out. Her 4-way team is 4th in A nationally to.

unfortunately, a family that would disregard a clearly spelled out intent would also contest the will.

[L.O. 0]

At least in the case of a will, the family has a chance to "get it".

Perhaps a will like this could have a chance to keep the family from tainting the memory of their loved one.

It seems like a loose loose situation. After the court case we all remember the pain it caused instead of the lose of that great person. It can't bring anything but pain to the family, with a long drawn out litigation.

The only person winning here is the lawyer

HPDBs, I hate those guys.
AFB, charter member.

[bch7773 0]

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Please don't be too harsh on the parents. I can understand being angry and wanting to blame someone. I'm sure they know that winning any lawsuit won't bring their son back. Fire away on the lawyer though, because he's in it for the money, IMO.

i bet the parents are in it for the money too... why else sue the airplane manufactors.... cause its got the deepest pockets!

talk to your reletives, let them know your wishes on sueing so you don't get remembered THIS way.

MB 3528, RB 1182

[Trent 0]

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i bet the parents are in it for the money too... why else sue the airplane manufactors.... cause its got the deepest pockets!

I seriously doubt (read: really don't want to believe) that the deceased's parents see their son's death as an opportunity to score some cash. I'd be willing to bet that it has more to do with wanting a reason as to why this happened. I don't know, I wasn't in the office when this lawyer helped them decide to sue.

Regardless, the actions of someone's family would not change the way I remembered the person.

Oh, hello again!

[D22369 0]

weasel shit parents.
***

To lose a child is one of the most horrendous things a parent can have happen, I saw what it did to my grandfather when my father died... The extreme hurt it dealt me was nothing compared to what it did to my grandfather....


they want answers and someones head on a platter - any way they can get them...


Roy

They say I suffer from insanity.... But I actually enjoy it.

[Unstable 8]

Let's look at it from the viewpoint of the Cessna Aircraft Corporation. This is nothing new to them. Their business has been plagued with people suing them for shit like this. A notable case I read about in the book The Legends of Cessna talked about a case where Cessna lost millions due to a lawsuit following a crash in the mid 70's cause by a pilot flying until he ran out of fuel.

I know Cessna - I've worked for them. I've worked on the Caravan line. They make a good airplane.

I think this is a situation I would start arguing for tort reform, but that is another SC thread.

=========Shaun ==========

[Skyrad 0]

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Please don't be too harsh on the parents. I can understand being angry and wanting to blame someone. I'm sure they know that winning any lawsuit won't bring their son back. Fire away on the lawyer though, because he's in it for the money, IMO.

What he said

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[Balls 0]

Good call on the lawsuits. They should probably sue Ford next, then some gun manufactures...

A relative died from choking, maybe I should sue some farmers too.

----------------------------------------
....so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who knew neither victory nor defeat."

[Guest]

I find it disturbing that they can't wait for the NTSB's findings on the cause of the mishap before filing suit.

N430A was an excellent airplane.

mh
.

"The mouse does not know life until it is in the mouth of the cat."

[itllclear 1]

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I find it disturbing that they can't wait for the NTSB's findings on the cause of the mishap before filing suit.

The actual report itself shouldn't be usable in court, as it was not prepared under oath. The testimony of the NTSB investigators is limited http://a257.g.akamaitech.net/7/257/2422/13nov20061500/edocket.access.gpo.gov/cfr_2006/octqtr/49cfr835.3.htm

Sometimes the reports miss something. For instance, most Piper Senecas I have flown have some type of autopilot installed, and in the case of a loss of control incident, it would be reasonable to mention some inspection/investigation of the autopilot. However, in the following report, there is no mention of the autopilot in an occasion where its use might have affected the outcome of the flight. http://ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id=20001212X18632&key=1

For these reasons, it seems appropriate for a plaintiff to want to get involved in the investigation as early as possible, perhaps to get his/her own investigators involved, if only to be sure evidence is preserved. Filing a lawsuit seems the only way to assure that involvement.

Lawyers out there, any comments?

"Harry, why did you land all the way out there? Nobody else landed out there."

"Your statement answered your question."

[riggerrob 558]

In the late 1990s, I vaguely remember President Clinton signing into law a bill that limited liability for general aviation manufacturers, making it extremely difficult to sue manufacturers of airplanes more than 15 years old.

Back ground information: Cessna quit building piston-engined airplanes in 1986 because liability insurance had risen to 40% (?) of the purchase price of a new airplane.

More background information: the majority of flying accidents are caused by the same thing as the majority of skydiving accidents: operator error!

[kallend 1,621]

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I find it disturbing that they can't wait for the NTSB's findings on the cause of the mishap before filing suit.

N430A was an excellent airplane.

mh
.

Congress has quite explicitly provided that no part of a report of the NTSB related to an accident or an investigation of an accident, may be admitted into evidence or used in a civil action for damages resulting from a matter mentioned in the report.
49 U.S.C. § 1154(b) (1994).

NTSB investigatory procedures are not designed to facilitate litigation, and Congress has made it clear that the Board and its reports should not be used to the advantage or disadvantage of any party in a civil lawsuit.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[airtwardo 6]

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Quote

I find it disturbing that they can't wait for the NTSB's findings on the cause of the mishap before filing suit.

N430A was an excellent airplane.

mh
.

Congress has quite explicitly provided that no part of a report of the NTSB related to an accident or an investigation of an accident, may be admitted into evidence or used in a civil action for damages resulting from a matter mentioned in the report.
49 U.S.C. § 1154(b) (1994).

NTSB investigatory procedures are not designed to facilitate litigation, and Congress has made it clear that the Board and its reports should not be used to the advantage or disadvantage of any party in a civil lawsuit.

Not that it applies here, but I'm curious, if a situation warranted could the investigation be used to facilitate criminal proceedings?

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[freethefly 6]

Try this link for answers
http://www.aviationlawcorp.com/content/crimliab.html
From the site;
NTSB Investigative Statements Can Be Used as Evidence

The NTSB investigator is not trying to trap a witness in a criminal violation. He is conducting an investigation to determining probable cause to enhance safety. The problem is that the statement he takes becomes part of an NTSB accident report, and that NTSB accident report is fully discoverable by any person who wants to use it, including a prosecutor. Furthermore, NTSB reports, except for the probable cause determination, have usually been admitted into evidence in civil and criminal litigation. (The United Airlines DC-10 disaster in Sioux City was a notable exception.)

The fact of the matter is the NTSB investigator cannot predict the eventual use of the statement he obtains. He is in no position to advise you or assure you of whether the statement you give may result in the revocation of your certificate, civil liability or criminal charges.

"...And once you're gone, you can't come back
When you're out of the blue and into the black."
Neil Young

[Andy9o8 0]

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Lawyers out there, any comments?

You're kidding, right?
No.

I mean, yes, there are several lawyers in these forums, and yes, we do have valuable things that we most definitely could contribute, but there's a reason you almost never see any of us post in these kind of threads:

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>>Stinking lawyers and scumbag weasel shit parents.
>>The only person winning here is the lawyer
>>Fire away on the lawyer though, because he's in it for the money, IMO.

The level of discourse is too infantile - and just as most of you have learned to refuse to get sucked into answering-back to clueless, hostile whuffos who begin with a starting presumption that you're trash, we have, too. It's just not worth engaging.

A couple of you have posted things here that are close to correct, but they're just close, they're not quite spot-on. I hope you can find someone whose guidance can help you separate the wheat from the chaff, but it won't be me.

[itllclear 1]

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A couple of you have posted things here that are close to correct, but they're just close, they're not quite spot-on.

That's a comment.

Thanks. Your hesitation to be pinned down on anything is well founded.

"Harry, why did you land all the way out there? Nobody else landed out there."

"Your statement answered your question."

[Krip 2]

How about the early bird (lawyer) gets the worm.

One Jump Wonder