JackC 0 #201 July 31, 2009 Quote>Anyone that truly believes they have "experiential evidence" of a god is delusional. No more so than a mother who thinks their child is the most important child in the world, or a soldier who thinks that their flag is worth dying for. It doesn't mean that that kid IS objectively the most important person in the world, or that that country is really all that great. It just is for them. "We must respect the other fellow's religion, but only in the sense and to the extent that we respect his theory that his wife is beautiful and his children smart." ~ H. L. Mencken Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pirana 0 #202 July 31, 2009 QuoteQuoteQuoteI've got no evidence of any kind on any of those belief systems (christian or otherwise). For all I know, Ron's belief system is exactly correct. But that's the flaw of logic that I see in so many religious arguments. The "burden of proof" is not to produce evidence to disprove religious beliefs, but to produce evidence to prove them. Is personal sworn testimony, under oath, admissible as evidence? Maybe so in court, where 2 parties are each telling their version in an attempt to convince a jury of laymen the other is lying, or less truthful. In the investigation of claims of fact for the purpose of establishing evidence - NO." . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SpeedRacer 1 #203 July 31, 2009 How do I know any of you guys exist? I've never met you in real life, so you guys could just be a bunch of post-bots for all I know. Speed Racer -------------------------------------------------- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RonD1120 58 #204 July 31, 2009 Quote How do I know any of you guys exist? I've never met you in real life, so you guys could just be a bunch of post-bots for all I know. Made my day. Thanks.Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SpeedRacer 1 #205 July 31, 2009 I think some of the more zealous atheists on here go overboard sometimes. They make statements like, "Well, I don't believe anything unless it's scientifically provable!" Look, its fine if you don't believe in God, but to make statements similar to the one above would eliminate not only religion, but all of the Humanities as well. Speed Racer -------------------------------------------------- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JackC 0 #206 July 31, 2009 QuoteI think some of the more zealous atheists on here go overboard sometimes. They make statements like, "Well, I don't believe anything unless it's scientifically provable!" Look, its fine if you don't believe in God, but to make statements similar to the one above would eliminate not only religion, but all of the Humanities as well. If you want to study humanities, you can. Stuff like language and art and music and even religion are all 'things' that exist and can be studied directly. You can't directly study god (theology) because there is no extant god that we can metaphorically poke to see what falls out. In fact, you have to wonder if you can really consider theology as a subject at all. It's pretty much equivalent to Klingon anatomy in the the subject stakes as far as I can tell. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SpeedRacer 1 #207 July 31, 2009 well, you can't approach literature and art and music from a scientific perspective either. That's why it's called the humanities: all the stuff that isn't physical science. An analogy: There is this condition known as Amusia, in which the person cannot recognize music as, well, music. It afflicts about 4% of the population. There's nothing wrong with their hearing or language skills or intelligence, but to them, music just sounds like a lot of noise. If all people in a culture had this condition, the culture would never develop music. Suppose half the people were amusic, and the other half were not. The amusic people would argue incessantly that this "music" stuff is all a bunch of crap and has no value. You're just sitting around listening to a bunch of sounds. All the amusic person could do is use instruments to measure the frequency and timing and volume of the sounds, and that is the only way he could "appreciate" music. The musical person would be unable to convince the amusical person of the true meaning of music, because you can't register that on scientific equipment. Speed Racer -------------------------------------------------- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SabreDave 0 #208 July 31, 2009 Quote Quote There is only one true religion to follow............. http://www.venganza.org/ I gotta admit, that's pretty phar out dude.Kinda reminds me to the Neo American Church and their Boo Hoo Bible. Far out, yes! More "far out" than the bible or other organized religions, nope.SabreDave Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JackC 0 #209 July 31, 2009 Quotewell, you can't approach literature and art and music from a scientific perspective either. Sure you can. I took a course entitled "the Physics of Music". Very interesting it was too. QuoteThe musical person would be unable to convince the amusical person of the true meaning of music, because you can't register that on scientific equipment. You can't convince a colour blind person of the true meaning of green either. But what exactly is the true meaning of green? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 0 #210 August 1, 2009 Quotewell, you can't approach literature and art and music from a scientific perspective either. That's why it's called the humanities: all the stuff that isn't physical science. An analogy: There is this condition known as Amusia, in which the person cannot recognize music as, well, music. It afflicts about 4% of the population. There's nothing wrong with their hearing or language skills or intelligence, but to them, music just sounds like a lot of noise. If all people in a culture had this condition, the culture would never develop music. Suppose half the people were amusic, and the other half were not. The amusic people would argue incessantly that this "music" stuff is all a bunch of crap and has no value. You're just sitting around listening to a bunch of sounds. All the amusic person could do is use instruments to measure the frequency and timing and volume of the sounds, and that is the only way he could "appreciate" music. The musical person would be unable to convince the amusical person of the true meaning of music, because you can't register that on scientific equipment. Terrible analogy, but typical of those who try to use corporeal examples to explain the non-corporeal, or to impliedly (but with politely plausible deniability) denigrate those who simply do not believe in the supernatural as being somehow "lacking" of something otherwise extant and perceptible by those who are "properly perceptive". In other words, atheists are just a little bit "defective". This is why we talk past each other: We think You haven't rationally developed, as adults, past childhood superstitions of Spaghetti Monsters under the bed; while You think We suffer from some kind of quasi-autism. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RonD1120 58 #211 August 1, 2009 QuoteGal 1:6I am astonished that you are(L) so quickly deserting(M) him who called you in the grace of Christ and are turning to(N) a different gospel— 7(O) not that there is another one, but(P) there are some who trouble you and want to distort the gospel of Christ. 8But even if we or(Q) an angel from heaven should preach to you a gospel contrary to the one we preached to you,(R) let him be accursed. 9As we have said before, so now I say again: If anyone is preaching to you a gospel contrary to the one you received,(S) let him be accursed. So if you ever hear anything different than what the apostles spoke then its wrong. So if you really did hear a voice there is no reason to believe it was God because you supposedly learned new things that could not be learned from what the apostles said and therefore the "voice" should have been accursed by you. Sorry, but everything you have said has no reference to the bible. Can you even produce where the bible teaches that salvation is obtained by "asking jesus to come into your life." You cannot simple "call upon the name of the lord" as the bible says Matt 7:21(A) "Not everyone who(B) says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will(C) enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who(D) does the will of my Father who is in heaven. and James 2:19(A) You believe that God is one; you do well. Even(B) the demons believe—and shudder! do a simple study and look at what happened anytime anyone in the bible asked what they must do to be saved. You will find something different than "ask jesus to come into your life." I have no idea where you are going with your Scripture reference. Gal 1:6-9. In that passage Paul is addressing the believers in response to their being influenced by the Judaizers. I did not hear anything contrary to Apostolic teaching. I was given a revelatory understanding of the body as the "temple of the Holy Spirit." No reason to call that "accursed." On the contrary, it was validation to me that I was loved by God and in relation with Him through Jesus Christ. I refer you to my post on "The Roman Road" regarding asking Jesus to come into a sinner's life. How would you explain to a sinner the methodology of accepting Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior? The Holy Spirit always guides the believer toward Jesus Christ and produces good fruit, Gal 5:22,23. QuoteBut the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law. On the other hand the spirit of the Antichrist is divisive. QuoteRomans 16:17 Now I urge you, brethren, note those who cause divisions and offenses, contrary to the doctrine which you learned, and avoid them. 18 For those who are such do not serve our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly, and by smooth words and flattering speech deceive the hearts of the simple. Titus 3:9 But avoid foolish disputes, genealogies, contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and useless. 10 Reject a divisive man after the first and second admonition, 11 knowing that such a person is warped and sinning, being self-condemned. 1 John 4:2 By this you know the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is of God, 3 and every spirit that does not confess that[a] Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is not of God. And this is the spirit of the Antichrist, which you have heard was coming, and is now already in the world. 4 You are of God, little children, and have overcome them, because He who is in you is greater than he who is in the world.Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stevebabin 0 #212 August 1, 2009 Quote How do I know any of you guys exist? I've never met you in real life, so you guys could just be a bunch of post-bots for all I know. That would be a call you have to make by considering the evidence available to you, and regardless of what you decide, there is only one truth. I have never seen evidence of a god, or anything supernatural, for that matter. I'm open to objective evidence. Simply because we don't understand something, doesn't place it in the realm of some "god" or make it supernatural. It just means that we don't understand it YET. History is replete with examples of this....thunder from Thor's hammer, the earth is flat and at the center of the universe, disease is caused by "sin", etc."Science, logic and reason will fly you to the moon. Religion will fly you into buildings." "Because figuring things out is always better than making shit up." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,254 #213 August 2, 2009 Quotewell, you can't approach literature and art and music from a scientific perspective either. That's why it's called the humanities: all the stuff that isn't physical science. You can read books. You can listen to music. You can look at art. You can't do any of that with any god. QuoteFrom a pragmatic sense, if belief in Christianity gets your life moving in a positive direction & gets you off addictions, etc, then there's probably something to it. That's a stupid conclusion. All it means is that for that person, the belief was useful, not that there is anything to the belief.Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
georgerussia 0 #214 September 7, 2009 So this means yet another Christian prophet is now officially screwed.* Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. * Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
steveorino 7 #215 September 7, 2009 QuoteSome time ago, I interpreted some biblical prophecies that spoke clearly of the end of the USA, ( NOT the end of the world as some thought), and I mentioned it would take place before the end of Bush's 2nd term. Well, a continuance of research causes me to believe it will not be before the end of Bush's 2nd term, but shortly after his successor is elected to the President's office, ......sometime before September of 2009. Bill Cole oops, care to reconsider? steveOrino Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pirana 0 #216 September 8, 2009 Quote Quote Some time ago, I interpreted some biblical prophecies that spoke clearly of the end of the USA, ( NOT the end of the world as some thought), and I mentioned it would take place before the end of Bush's 2nd term. Well, a continuance of research causes me to believe it will not be before the end of Bush's 2nd term, but shortly after his successor is elected to the President's office, ......sometime before September of 2009. Bill Cole oops, care to reconsider? You are so behind the times.2012 is the new 2009.Truthers are the new village idiots. Orange is the new yellow.Emotions are the new intelligence.Feelings are the new data." . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SpeedRacer 1 #217 September 8, 2009 QuoteQuoteSome time ago, I interpreted some biblical prophecies that spoke clearly of the end of the USA, ( NOT the end of the world as some thought), and I mentioned it would take place before the end of Bush's 2nd term. Well, a continuance of research causes me to believe it will not be before the end of Bush's 2nd term, but shortly after his successor is elected to the President's office, ......sometime before September of 2009. Bill Cole oops, care to reconsider? "Bush will be our LAST PRESIDENT!!" -Steeee-rike One! "...sometime before September of 2009" -Steeee-rike Two!! Speed Racer -------------------------------------------------- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BillyVance 34 #218 September 8, 2009 The Mayan Calendar says its December 21, 2012, when the sun aligns itself with the center of the galaxy. Hell if I know what'll happen then. Probably nothing."Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SpeedRacer 1 #219 September 8, 2009 QuoteThe Mayan Calendar says its December 21, 2012, when the sun aligns itself with the center of the galaxy. Hell if I know what'll happen then. Probably nothing. I heard an interview with an archaeologist who had studied the Mayans, and she says that in fact the Mayans never predicted any such thing. Speed Racer -------------------------------------------------- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BillyVance 34 #220 September 8, 2009 QuoteQuoteThe Mayan Calendar says its December 21, 2012, when the sun aligns itself with the center of the galaxy. Hell if I know what'll happen then. Probably nothing. I heard an interview with an archaeologist who had studied the Mayans, and she says that in fact the Mayans never predicted any such thing. I've seen different viewpoints. There was a program on TV about Nostradamus's quatrains and how some of them seemed to correspond to quite a few ancient civilizations who based their findings on astrology, or something like that. It purported that the Egyptians and Mayans pointed to nearly the same impending doom at the same time. Like the bible, this kind of thing can be interpreted many different ways. But of course, every doomsday prediction in history has been proved wrong to date. This could be the next one.... or not...."Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
labrys 0 #221 September 9, 2009 Quote.sometime before September of 2009. I stopped paying my bills 3 months ago in...... (say it) anticipation of this.... are we there yet? Sigh.Owned by Remi #? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,380 #222 September 9, 2009 >I heard an interview with an archaeologist who had studied the Mayans, >and she says that in fact the Mayans never predicted any such thing. As I understand it they didn't; their calendar just ends there. It would be like some future civilization claiming the Age of Western Civilization predicted the end of the world to be December 31st, 9999, because we only have four digits for year. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Coreece 189 #223 September 9, 2009 Quote Like the bible, this kind of thing can be interpreted many different ways. Mark 13:32-33 "No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father. Be on guard! Be alert! You do not know when that time will come." Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 3 #224 September 9, 2009 QuoteMark 13:32-33 "No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father. Be on guard! Be alert! You do not know when that time will come." Since -somebody- on a planet with over 6 billion people on it will almost always think "today is the day", doesn't that mean the day can never come?quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Coreece 189 #225 September 9, 2009 Quote Mark 13:32-33 "No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father. Be on guard! Be alert! You do not know when that time will come." >Since -somebody- on a planet with over 6 billion people on it will almost always think "today is the day", doesn't that mean the day can never come? Since -somebody- on a planet with over 6 billion people on it will almost always think "today is the day", doesn't that mean the day can never come?Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
