Congress begins to grow a pair

[Muenkel 0]

I know they don't have the same roles or responsibilities. My point is that the congress in and of itself does not run the country.

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Chris

[Muenkel 0]

BTW: Thanks for the link to the U.S. Constitution. It may surprise you though that I have read it before and studied it in school.

_________________________________________
Chris

[SpeedRacer 1]

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Congress begins to grow a pair

so I wonder, did they grow first one & then the other, or did they start out as little BBs, or what?

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[billvon 2,396]

>so I wonder, did they grow first one & then the other, or did they start
>out as little BBs, or what?

Dunno. And I have no inclination to check!

[Lefty 0]

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As Bill says, the Congress runs the U.S. Maybe we should stop ragging on Bush for everything and focus more on Congress.

That's rich.

Apparently, you don't get that whole victimology mindset, embraced by so many on the left.

Trust me, I do. I almost added a "yeah right" on the end of my post. However, what amuses me most besides Billvon's amnesia regarding "checks and balances" is the fact that he chooses the creation of new, undoubtedly bloated government spending projects to declare that Congress has grown balls.

Provoking a reaction isn't the same thing as saying something meaningful.
-Calvin

[billvon 2,396]

>is the fact that he chooses the creation of new, undoubtedly bloated
>government spending projects to declare that Congress has grown balls.

Yep. It takes balls to override the president, and to do the right thing when it comes to disaster preparedness - even if it means spending money to do it. They know they will invoke the ire of the "I don't want to pay any bills" folks, but they do it anyway.

[Lefty 0]

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>is the fact that he chooses the creation of new, undoubtedly bloated
>government spending projects to declare that Congress has grown balls.

Yep. It takes balls to override the president, and to do the right thing when it comes to disaster preparedness - even if it means spending money to do it. They know they will invoke the ire of the "I don't want to pay any bills" folks, but they do it anyway.

Like our ire matters to our elected officials. Us folks who actually pay the bills are becoming more and more of a minority.

Provoking a reaction isn't the same thing as saying something meaningful.
-Calvin

[lawrocket 3]

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Yes the congress writes laws, but they don't become law unless the president signs it. If laws are passed by congress and the president, it can be overturned by the Supreme Court.

Congress tells the POTUS what to do and he does it. The POTUS may veto, but Congress may override it, as with this. The POTUS then must act to enforce the law.

For too long, the balance has been radically in the POTUS'S hands - mostly because Congress wanted it that way.

We'll see where Congress goes from here.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[Muenkel 0]

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Yes the congress writes laws, but they don't become law unless the president signs it. If laws are passed by congress and the president, it can be overturned by the Supreme Court.

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Congress tells the POTUS what to do and he does it. The POTUS may veto, but Congress may override it, as with this. The POTUS then must act to enforce the law.

For too long, the balance has been radically in the POTUS'S hands - mostly because Congress wanted it that way.

We'll see where Congress goes from here.

My only point was that each branch has its own powers that are in check by the other two branches. No one branch 'runs the US'.

BillVon seems to not want to admit that he was wrong when he made his statement about congress running the US.

Hell, Kallend the professor won't even jump in and make that distinction.

_________________________________________
Chris

[kallend 1,623]

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Hell, Kallend the professor won't even jump in and make that distinction.

You seem to be doing fine without my assistance.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[billvon 2,396]

>BillVon seems to not want to admit that he was wrong when he made
>his statement about congress running the US.

If there is one entity that runs the US, it's Congress. They have most of the power. They make the laws. They decide who to go to war with. They decide what restrictions to place on how we live our lives.

Yes, the other branches have their jobs. But the buck stops in Congress - at least according to the constitution. Keep in mind that we wrote it because we were sick of living under a king's rule. Thus we had a government of the people instead of under a man. Our government was organized to be run by the people through their representatives.

[Andrewwhyte 1]

Bill is right.
In countries with responsible government, such as the UK has now and was developing at the time of the revolution, the crown rules with the advice of her council (cabinet), which is a committee of the legislature.
The whole idea of the republic was that the administration administers the will of the people. That will is expressed by the legislature.

[mnealtx 0]

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>you don't get that whole victimology mindset, embraced by so many on the left.

Yep. And the right, of course, is a victim of the liberal left wing media. It's gotta always be someone else's fault.

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"This vast right-wing conspiracy that has been conspiring against my husband since the day he announced for President" - Hillary Clinton

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[NCclimber 0]

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>BillVon seems to not want to admit that he was wrong when he made
>his statement about congress running the US.

If there is one entity that runs the US, it's Congress. They have most of the power. They make the laws. They decide who to go to war with. They decide what restrictions to place on how we live our lives.

So Congress is/was responsible for our military actions in Vietnam and Iraq?

So all this rhetoric we hear about Bush destroying the Constitution and the taking of our rights is really Congress's faulty/responsibility?

[mnealtx 0]

Only when/if it's a Democrat President and Republican Congress, of course...just look at any of Lucky's posts...only the undaunted, heroic actions of the Dems are keeping this country from blah blah, blah....

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[SpeedRacer 1]

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>BillVon seems to not want to admit that he was wrong when he made
>his statement about congress running the US.

If there is one entity that runs the US, it's Congress. They have most of the power. They make the laws. They decide who to go to war with. They decide what restrictions to place on how we live our lives.

So Congress is/was responsible for our military actions in Vietnam and Iraq?

So all this rhetoric we hear about Bush destroying the Constitution and the taking of our rights is really Congress's faulty/responsibility?

Interesting points.

Was there a Congressional Declaration of war against North Vietnam?

In the constitution only Congress is supposed to be able to declare war, but it seems that presidents (democrat and republican) have found a way to go to war without it, basically whenever they want to.

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[mirage62 0]

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Well, no they can't. Bush is the commander-in-chief. They could cut off funding, but Bush could order them to stay there until they were all dead. And no one wants that.

Bill sorry but thats just WEAK. Congree which the Dem's control can cut funding and the WAR IS OVER. They ran on ending the war because that was a good way to get into power - AND IT WORKED. But they have NOT ended the war. Saying or suggesting that big bad evil Bush would allow our troops to "were all dead" is beneth your level of debate.

Kevin Keenan is my hero, a double FUP, he does so much with so little

[Lefty 0]

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>BillVon seems to not want to admit that he was wrong when he made
>his statement about congress running the US.

If there is one entity that runs the US, it's Congress. They have most of the power. They make the laws. They decide who to go to war with. They decide what restrictions to place on how we live our lives.

So Congress is/was responsible for our military actions in Vietnam and Iraq?

So all this rhetoric we hear about Bush destroying the Constitution and the taking of our rights is really Congress's faulty/responsibility?

Interesting points.

Was there a Congressional Declaration of war against North Vietnam?

In the constitution only Congress is supposed to be able to declare war, but it seems that presidents (democrat and republican) have found a way to go to war without it, basically whenever they want to.

But Congress goes right along with it.

Provoking a reaction isn't the same thing as saying something meaningful.
-Calvin

[billvon 2,396]

>So Congress is/was responsible for our military actions in Vietnam and
>Iraq?

Had Congress declared war - then yes, they would be responsible for the war.

If they allow someone else to declare war - then they are guilty of allowing someone else to wield the power that is rightfully theirs.

>So all this rhetoric we hear about Bush destroying the Constitution and
>the taking of our rights is really Congress's faulty/responsibility?

It is Congress's fault for allowing it to happen. It's as if a security guard was lazy and did not notice a robbery in progress. The responsibility for the theft lies with the thief - but it is the guard's fault that it was able to occur at all.

[lawrocket 3]

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>So Congress is/was responsible for our military actions in Vietnam and
>Iraq?

Had Congress declared war - then yes, they would be responsible for the war.

If they allow someone else to declare war - then they are guilty of allowing someone else to wield the power that is rightfully theirs.

The Gulf of Tonkin Resolution was congressional authorization.

Or the joint Authorization for Use of Military Force Against Iraq Resolution of 2002, which passed 296-133 in the House and 77-23 in the Senate.

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It is Congress's fault for allowing it to happen. It's as if a security guard was lazy and did not notice a robbery in progress. The responsibility for the theft lies with the thief - but it is the guard's fault that it was able to occur at all.

Not wuite, Bill. Bush wanted the war, but needed permission and funding for it. It's more of a parent of a teenager. Junior (the Prez) and his friends wanted to go out and party. The Parents (Congress) opened their liquor cabinet and gave Junior the keys to the Escalade.

Yeah, it's Junior's fault that he crossed the median and caused a crash. But perhaps had the parents decided to use their roles as the policymakers instead of the yes men and women, then maybe Junior would have "stayed home."

Congress had an actual causative role in this, Bill. It was not mere negligence. Maybe it should be more like the junkie and the dealer.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[billvon 2,396]

>The Gulf of Tonkin Resolution was congressional authorization.

Right. But the Constitution does not say anything about "authorization." It says quite clearly that Congress has the power to declare war, and does NOT list that power in the articles that govern the executive branch.

The president has the authority to command the US military forces to deal with imminent threats to the safety of the US. It was set up that way so that if there's an invasion, they don't have to call Congress back into session to declare war before we can defend ourselves, or retaliate rapidly against the aggressor country. Thus the "authorization for the use of force" is redundant; he already has that power.

The reason they do that at all is due to a clause in the War Powers act which requires the president "to remove U.S. armed forces from hostilities if Congress has not declared war or passed a resolution authorizing the use of force within 60 days."

>Bush wanted the war, but needed permission and funding for it.

He literally did not. He could have ordered an attack at any time, if it's a given that there would be no declaration of war. He would have had to remove the troops (per the War Powers Act) after 60 days unless he got the "authorization for the use of force." He got it first to get it out of the way.

[rushmc 18]

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Finally the US Congress is beginning to realize that they, and not the president, run the US. Let's hope this is the beginning of a trend.

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WASHINGTON -- The Senate on Thursday handed President Bush his first veto override -- authorizing $23 billion in new water projects. The Senate voted to pass the bill 79-14, despite the president's objections.

Supporters said the projects authorized under the Water Resources Development Act are necessary to rebuild the Gulf Coast after the devastation of Hurricane Katrina, restore the Everglades and Great Lakes fisheries and build flood-control projects nationwide.

Bush spiked the measure Friday despite its overwhelming bipartisan support, calling it too costly and complaining that the 900 projects it authorized would overtax the Army Corps of Engineers.

To this topic did you know

1) The CORP asked for 5 million
2) One body approved 13 million
3) The other body approved 14 million
4) The conference committee approved 23 million which Bush vetoed


Did you also know that Hillary is now the queen of ear marks?

I thought the Dems were going to eliminate ear marks?

Ya, its better now

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[billvon 2,396]

>1) The CORP asked for 5 million
>2) One body approved 13 million

What are you talking about? Either you are talking about a different bill or you're off by three orders of magnitude.

[rushmc 18]

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>1) The CORP asked for 5 million
>2) One body approved 13 million

What are you talking about? Either you are talking about a different bill or you're off by three orders of magnitude.

I am dead on sir. Look at the first post of this thread. This is what I am talking about. The original request from the Corp of enginers was for 5 million.

The House aproved 13 million
The Senate aproved 14 million
The conference committe aproved 23 million
Bush vetoed
Congress over rode

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[rushmc 18]

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>1) The CORP asked for 5 million
>2) One body approved 13 million

What are you talking about? Either you are talking about a different bill or you're off by three orders of magnitude.

What magnitude are you off buy?

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln