DSE 3 #1 November 7, 2007 Another school shooting has occurred, this one in Finland. 7 dead thus far. The shooter posted a warning on YouTube yesterday. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
warpedskydiver 0 #2 November 7, 2007 Sad indeed, too bad a sniper was not laying in wait for his worthless ass to appear. I do not care what the reason is, unless an aggregious act has warranted killing, acts of violence should be interdicted. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DSE 3 #3 November 7, 2007 QuoteSad indeed, too bad a sniper was not laying in wait for his worthless ass to appear. I do not care what the reason is, unless an aggregious act has warranted killing, acts of violence should be interdicted. No argument there. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NelKel 0 #4 November 8, 2007 Fox News just reported 9 dead including the shooter _________________________________________ Someone dies, someone says how stupid, someone says it was avoidable, someone says how to avoid it, someone calls them an idiot, someone proposes rule chan Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
funkcanna 0 #5 November 8, 2007 Quote Another school shooting has occurred, this one in Finland. 7 dead thus far. The shooter posted a warning on YouTube yesterday. A very bad thing. Funny how it doesnt mention the kids religion - I bet he was Christian - funny how that gets ignored when the perp is not Muslim...To know requires proof To believe requires evidence To have faith requires neither. If you stick with that, we'll never be confused again Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AWL71 0 #6 November 8, 2007 Quote Quote Another school shooting has occurred, this one in Finland. 7 dead thus far. The shooter posted a warning on YouTube yesterday. A very bad thing. Funny how it doesnt mention the kids religion - I bet he was Christian - funny how that gets ignored when the perp is not Muslim... Doubtful. Religion in Finland, along with the rest of Scandinavia, is not a major influence in the lives of 95% of the population.The most terrifying words in the English language are: I'm from the government and I'm here to help. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #7 November 8, 2007 QuoteFunny how it doesnt mention the kids religion - I bet he was Christian - ... like an environmentalist? or an atheist? or an anti-abortionist? ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NCclimber 0 #8 November 8, 2007 Quote Funny how it doesnt mention the kids religion - I bet he was Christian Yeah. He definitely sounds like a Christian. Quote One posting called for a popular uprising against "the enslaving, corrupted and totalitarian regimes" and appeared to anticipate a violent attack. "I am prepared to fight and die for my cause. I, as a natural selector, will eliminate all who I see unfit, disgraces of human race and failures of natural selection," the posting said. Quote - funny how that gets ignored when the perp is not Muslim... What are you talking about? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Esquilax 0 #9 November 8, 2007 What are Finland's gun laws like?Ostriches and rheas are the only birds that urinate and defecate separately. They read Parachutist while doing #2. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DSE 3 #10 November 8, 2007 Very liberal compared to EU, according to websites talking about the shooting. Half of the country owns firearms. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NCclimber 0 #11 November 8, 2007 Here's a quote from the AP QuoteGun ownership is fairly common in Finland by European standards, but deadly shootings are rare. Finnish media reported that a school shooting in 1989 involved a 14-year-old boy who killed two other students apparently for teasing him. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,254 #12 November 8, 2007 Quote Doubtful. Religion in Finland, along with the rest of Scandinavia, is not a major influence in the lives of 95% of the population. And yet 82.5% of the population belongs to the Evangelical Lutheran Church of Finland (although to be fair, only about half of them actually believe in capital 'G' God. Go figure).Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #13 November 8, 2007 QuoteFunny how it doesnt mention the kids religion - I bet he was Christian - funny how that gets ignored when the perp is not Muslim... When it's a muslim, he's often doing his killing on behalf of his religion. When it's a christian, he's usually not killing for his religion. There's a difference. In the case of this kid, he was just screwed up in the head. Religion doesn't appear to have anything to do with it. And you shouldn't try and draw such a connection when there is none. In fact, it's beginning to look like bullies are at the root of his anger. Yeah, bullies again. I wonder why no one ever wants to ban school bullies? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #14 November 8, 2007 QuoteWhat are Finland's gun laws like? What's the relevance of the question? Do you think that someone willing to kill a bunch of children would be deterred by some gun laws? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 0 #15 November 8, 2007 QuoteQuoteWhat are Finland's gun laws like? What's the relevance of the question? Do you think that someone willing to kill a bunch of children would be deterred by some gun laws? No. But - policy and ideology arguments aside - he had the tool available to him that he did. This wasn't adult-on-small children. It was teenager-on-teenagers in a high school. If he'd been armed with knives only, might he have been overpowered by students and teachers before as many people had died? Maybe. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Esquilax 0 #16 November 8, 2007 QuoteQuoteWhat are Finland's gun laws like? What's the relevance of the question? Do you think that someone willing to kill a bunch of children would be deterred by some gun laws? The relevance was that if Finland has typical Euro gun laws, it'd show that they're indeed ineffective in the prevention of these attacks. Take it down a notch, sparky. No need to hit Charleton Heston's speed dial # just yet...Ostriches and rheas are the only birds that urinate and defecate separately. They read Parachutist while doing #2. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kege 0 #17 November 8, 2007 Hey, It is not easy to buy a gun in Finland. You need a permit and you can only get that through the police department. A little background info from a local: For hundreds of years we were a rural country that lived off the forest, lakes and the sea, so hunting is, by tradition, a somewhat common hobby here. That's why, statistically it looks like we have 3M guns here for just under 6M people. However we have a lot less gun permits, around 600 000. That is roughly the amount sport hunters in this country (as I said, it's a common hobby). That is very different from saying 1 in every 2 Finns own a gun. Out of those 3M guns, at least 2M are hunting rifles. A hunter normally has more than one gun, just like a fisherman has different rods or a golfer has a set of clubs. Automatic weapons are illegal here. If you want to buy a gun, you need to be a member of a hunting or sport shooting club, take a test, and pass the background check by the police. You need to show that you have use for the weapon. The procedure of acquiring a gun permit is nothing like filling out a form, waiting for a month and then being able to buy a gun. I believe that in some states in the US the reality is not very far from that. Of course, if you are (medically) a complete psycho, you can fool any system, and no kind of gun control will stop you. Like in this tragic case. This guy publically (on the net) idolized the nazis, guns, the US high school killers. He told no one, just posted his "manifesto" videos online and went for it. A different kid who was teased in school for years flipped and went out with a blaze. These types can not be stopped by any measures. Fortunately they are extremely rare. Every now and then in the US, I think one in Germany now this wacko we had. Hopefully never again, but more than likely it will happen somewhere. Crazy times. I personally hate the fact that everywhere in the world idiots have access to guns. Guns are about power and many people can't handle that. More gun control is the answer. The less people own hand guns, the better. in fact, I think hand guns should be banned all together from everyone else but the law enforcement. They are of no use. I cannot fathom how some people, mostly american "patriots" and some individualist pricks who stand behind the barricades of civil liberties actually believe that the answer to your country's gun-related crime is total gun liberation, in the name of "I have rights". Shove your right to guns, pardon the expression. Instead of ME ME ME think about the big picture. If everyone is carrying a firearm, all the time, do you really believe that everyone is safer? I know some will answer yes, and all I can say to those is I'm sorry but you are horribly mistaken and by your country's mind-boggling statistics of gun-related crime, if you haven't put 2&2 together, you must be blind, deaf and possibly retarded all at once. And I hope no one you know ever gets confronted with someone pointing a gun at them. Sorry about the rant, our country is pretty shook up right now and the red wine is getting a hold of my keyboard. What I'm trying to say is that these things suck ass. Take care, Kerkko Helsinki, Finland Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #18 November 8, 2007 QuoteWhen it's a muslim, he's often doing his killing on behalf of his religion. When it's a christian, he's usually not killing for his religion. There's a difference. Care to give illustrations? Were the Crusaders not killing for their religion? How about pro lifers that bomb abortion clinics and kill doctors? Any difference you assert sounds like semantics at best. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NCclimber 0 #19 November 8, 2007 Quote Quote When it's a muslim, he's often doing his killing on behalf of his religion. When it's a christian, he's usually not killing for his religion. There's a difference. Care to give illustrations? Were the Crusaders not killing for their religion? How about pro lifers that bomb abortion clinics and kill doctors? Any difference you assert sounds like semantics at best. Aren't we talking about school shootings??? But if you want look at religion motivated killings in the last 500 years or so, feel free to post some figures. And I know communism isn't a religion, but throw it in there for good measure. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #20 November 8, 2007 Quote If everyone is carrying a firearm, all the time, do you really believe that everyone is safer? I know some will answer yes, and all I can say to those is I'm sorry but you are horribly mistaken Tell that to the people he killed. What stopped him, anyway? (News articles rarely say) Was he running low on bullets and saved the last for himself? It certainly wasn't because anyone at the school was capable of resisting. If, on the other hand, you had people there (teachers, presumably) that were carrying, there would have been an end, potentially with far fewer victims. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #21 November 8, 2007 QuoteQuoteDo you think that someone willing to kill a bunch of children would be deterred by some gun laws? No. But - policy and ideology arguments aside - he had the tool available to him that he did. This wasn't adult-on-small children. It was teenager-on-teenagers in a high school. If he'd been armed with knives only, might he have been overpowered by students and teachers before as many people had died? Maybe. First point: You are making the standard false assumption in presuming that some gun law could have prevented a murderous-minded adult from acquiring a gun. And you admitted that yourself, above. Yet, then you go on to tell a story as if some gun law would require him to commit his act with nothing more than a knife. Gun-control folks live in a fantasy world. Second point: The shooter was 18 years old. The school was for children aged 12 to 18. So this was indeed more like an adult-on-child shooting. Third point: We're lucky he wasn't using a larger caliber gun, or the other 12 people he only injured, could have been fatalities. Fourth point: He also doused the school with flammable liquid, but failed to ignite it. Should we therefore, institute background checks and registration on every gasoline purchase? Further story: here. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #22 November 8, 2007 QuoteQuoteWhen it's a muslim, he's often doing his killing on behalf of his religion. When it's a christian, he's usually not killing for his religion. There's a difference. Care to give illustrations? Were the Crusaders not killing for their religion? How about pro lifers that bomb abortion clinics and kill doctors? Any difference you assert sounds like semantics at best. Gosh, I thought we were talking about modern-day school shooters and mass murderers. And you have to go all the way back to the Crusades to bash Christians! As for muslims, we only have to go back a day or two. Would you like to compare the frequency and death toll from christian abortion clinic bombers with that of muslim suicide bombers? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #23 November 8, 2007 QuoteGuns are about power and many people can't handle that. More gun control is the answer. The less people own hand guns, the better. in fact, I think hand guns should be banned all together from everyone else but the law enforcement. They are of no use. Well, that's the usual knee-jerk emotional crap that arises after such an incident. Unfortunately for you, you're all wrong, and such ridiculous comments deserve no debate. Cooler heads will prevail, hopefully, upon calm, objective reflection. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #24 November 8, 2007 QuoteThe relevance was that if Finland has typical Euro gun laws, it'd show that they're indeed ineffective in the prevention of these attacks. There have been enough school shootings in European countries with tight gun control already to prove that. But it won't stop the gun-o-phobes from trying yet again. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
martin-o 0 #25 November 8, 2007 He brought 500 bullets and used about 70 of them, according to a Swedish news source. /Martin Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
