England: Air Gun Crime

[JohnRich 4]

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Respecting your poll, I think air gun owners should register.

When I was 10 years old, there was about 6 of us who owned air rifles, without our parents knowledge or consent.

Imagine the destruction 6 silly wee boys can cause with such weapons?

At the very least, when wee bastards get caught shooting Farmer Brown's bull in the nuts, the police can then seek the registered owner.

How would the police know which air rifle was used to shoot the bull in the nuts, in order to trace it? You didn't leave it behind at the scene, did you?

[kallend 1,620]

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It's also important for the person stating his argument to try and make his point and his source of a good nature. Using a tabloid newspaper of poor reputation (as a source), to try and make a sensible point isn't really going to present itself as sensible is it?

Nope, I see that as just more irrelevant crap in the thread. If people can't put aside their general perception of a source in order to focus on the actual story, then they're just wasting everyone's time. In the bank robbery story where I used The Sun, despite all the wailing about that publication being a tabloid, not a single person was willing to accept my challenge and point out for me anything factually incorrect about their version of the story. So once again, people just went off on a tangent, instead of talking about the actual subject matter.

Why should people waste their time and effort on that when the source is known to lack credibility.

Would you waste your time debunking the attached stories from Weekly World News? Do you believe everything in the National Enquirer until it's proven to be untrue?

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[vortexring 0]

Nah, in my example the individual is caught with the rifle. Whoever has it registered, such as someone above the age of 21, has some explaining to do then hasn't he?

Why's this kid cutting around shooting Farmer Browns bull in the nuts, at 10 years old, with a weapon registered to yourself?

The point I made earlier remains!

'for it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "chuck 'im out, the brute!" But it's "saviour of 'is country" when the guns begin to shoot.'

[JohnRich 4]

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Nah, in my example the individual is caught with the rifle. Whoever has it registered, such as someone above the age of 21, has some explaining to do then hasn't he?

In that case, gun registration isn't needed either, as you caught the little bugger in the act. And you also then know who his parents are, so you can talk to them about proper supervision. No registration is necessary here!

[vortexring 0]

Ah, but it is - registration would prevent the rifles being so accessible to the youngsters.

Therefore it is necessary.

Simple really.

'for it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "chuck 'im out, the brute!" But it's "saviour of 'is country" when the guns begin to shoot.'

[jaaska 0]

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News:

New law warning to airgun dealers

POLICE yesterday warned North Wales airgun traders to register as firearm dealers or face prosecution. Anyone failing to do so may face a maximum £5,000 or 12 months’ imprisonment.

Calls were made for a crack down on airguns after a series of incidents across the region in recent years where people and animals were hurt or killed.

“Now fishing tackle shops, gift shops, hardware stores and others who sell air weapons will all be affected by the change in law, and will have to register with us.”

Source: The Sun

That'll sure teach those air gun criminals a lesson! Because the best way to stop criminals, is to punish the innocent.

Hellos John!

It would be a nice change to have a different country on your topic. Like:

SWEDEN BANNED EVERYTHING

or

CHINA did this and that

or

South HonxBorough did this!

or

FINLAND: They go to public places w/o any clothes (saunas)


It's just that this thing about you going always after the English (as in England) stuff is getting PRETTY boring. You could of course try to blame some other countries, but that would be too much of a change, would it not?

[JohnRich 4]

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registration would prevent the rifles being so accessible to the youngsters.

How do you figure that?

Just because the serial number is recorded in some government computer doesn't mean a darned thing about how the air rifle might be controlled in the home environment.

If registration worked so well, we wouldn't have any auto traffic offenses or drunk drivers. Since we still have plenty of those, then obviously there is no correlation between registration, and the behavior of those people using items so-registered.

[JohnRich 4]

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It's just that this thing about you going always after the English (as in England) stuff is getting PRETTY boring. You could of course try to blame some other countries, but that would be too much of a change, would it not?

Once again: See here.

[kallend 1,620]

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registration would prevent the rifles being so accessible to the youngsters.

How do you figure that?

Just because the serial number is recorded in some government computer doesn't mean a darned thing about how the air rifle might be controlled in the home environment.

If registration worked so well, we wouldn't have any auto traffic offenses or drunk drivers. Since we still have plenty of those, then obviously there is no correlation between registration, and the behavior of those people using items so-registered.

Nonsense. Registration has enabled huge numbers of, for example, hit and run violators to be caught who would have got clean away if there were no records of car ownership. And fear of being caught is a major deterrent to antisocial behavior.

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[mnealtx 0]

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registration would prevent the rifles being so accessible to the youngsters.

How do you figure that?

Just because the serial number is recorded in some government computer doesn't mean a darned thing about how the air rifle might be controlled in the home environment.

If registration worked so well, we wouldn't have any auto traffic offenses or drunk drivers. Since we still have plenty of those, then obviously there is no correlation between registration, and the behavior of those people using items so-registered.

Nonsense. Registration has enabled huge numbers of, for example, hit and run violators to be caught who would have got clean away if there were no records of car ownership. And fear of being caught is a major deterrent to antisocial behavior.

And how did the vehicle registration PREVENT the hit and runs from happening (as that is the salient point of the analogy)?

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[warpedskydiver 0]

Hck why not let the goverment collect DNA from every living person in the USA or those who travel here, that way if something happens the authorities will be able to figure out who was the perpetrator...


I think that idea is invasive and unconstitutional, yet there are posters on these boards that seem to believe registration prevents crime.

[JohnRich 4]

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Registration has enabled huge numbers of, for example, hit and run violators to be caught who would have got clean away if there were no records of car ownership. And fear of being caught is a major deterrent to antisocial behavior.

Mnealtx gave you your first deserved criticism, for addressing after-the-fact capture, rather than sole focus on prevention, which was the topic here.

And furthermore, serial numbers on guns aren't mounted on a reflective license plate visible from a hundred yards away. So the only way you would get it for a trace, is to have the criminal leave it behind for you at the crime scene. They don't often do that. Furthermore, even if they do, the gun is likely to be stolen and the serial number still doesn't lead you to the crook.

And even that is off-topic, because the proposal is to register the stores that sell air guns, not the people that buy them. And that is even another step removed from a direct link between the gun and the owner.

But what the heck, anything is good if it inconveniences law-abiding gun people, eh?

[kallend 1,620]

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Registration has enabled huge numbers of, for example, hit and run violators to be caught who would have got clean away if there were no records of car ownership. And fear of being caught is a major deterrent to antisocial behavior.

Mnealtx gave you your first deserved criticism, for addressing after-the-fact capture, rather than sole focus on prevention, which was the topic here.

And furthermore, serial numbers on guns aren't mounted on a reflective license plate visible from a hundred yards away. So the only way you would get it for a trace, is to have the criminal leave it behind for you at the crime scene. They don't often do that. Furthermore, even if they do, the gun is likely to be stolen and the serial number still doesn't lead you to the crook.

And even that is off-topic, because the proposal is to register the stores that sell air guns, not the people that buy them. And that is even another step removed from a direct link between the gun and the owner.

But what the heck, anything is good if it inconveniences law-abiding gun people, eh?

I'm so sorry, I thought that when you wrote:

"If registration worked so well, we wouldn't have any auto traffic offenses or drunk drivers. "

you might have been referring to automobile registration. Silly of me to think that auto traffic and drunk driving referred to autos..

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[JohnRich 4]

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I'm so sorry, I thought that when you wrote:

"If registration worked so well, we wouldn't have any auto traffic offenses or drunk drivers. "

you might have been referring to automobile registration. Silly of me to think that auto traffic and drunk driving referred to autos..

They did, but once again, that was to point out that registration doesn't do anything for prevention.

Identification after the fact is another subject. Yes, license plates help for that, but that doesn't equate to guns, since guns don't have easily visible identifying numbers on them which the public can see from far away.

Prevention and capture are not the same.
Car license plates and gun serial numbers are not the same.

So please explain how registering air gun sellers will cut down on air gun crimes. Can you?

[kallend 1,620]

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I'm so sorry, I thought that when you wrote:

"If registration worked so well, we wouldn't have any auto traffic offenses or drunk drivers. "

you might have been referring to automobile registration. Silly of me to think that auto traffic and drunk driving referred to autos..

They did, but once again, that was to point out that registration doesn't do anything for prevention.

Of course it does. The likelihood of being caught is a major deterrant to crime, and registration increases that likelihood.

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Identification after the fact is another subject. Yes, license plates help for that, but that doesn't equate to guns, since guns don't have easily visible identifying numbers on them which the public can see from far away.

Prevention and capture are not the same.
Car license plates and gun serial numbers are not the same.

So why did YOU bring up auto registration? Now you're saying it's just a red herring.

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So please explain how registering air gun sellers will cut down on air gun crimes. Can you?

Why? The purpose of my post was to illustrate that your analogy is shitty, which it is.

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[mnealtx 0]

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The likelihood of being caught is a major deterrant to crime

So, the threat of punishment is a deterrent? I'll have to revisit this post in the next capital punishment thread.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[JohnRich 4]

You skipped right over this question:

"So please explain how registering air gun sellers will cut down on air gun crimes. Can you?"

Isn't it funny how 44% of the people responding to the poll voted that registering air gun sellers will be effective at preventing air gun crime, yet not a single one of them has been willing to come forward and actually explain how?

This just illustrates once again how the anti-gun crowd loves any proposal that will make gun ownership more difficult for the law-abiding, irregardless of whether or not it's actually effective at stopping criminals. The bottom line is that they think harassing legitimate gun owners is a good cause too.