Ron Paul

[Para_Frog 1]

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Heck, he brought us 9/11

Ex-squeeze me?

Jamie Gorelick had 100x more to do with 9/11 happening then ole' GWB. He hadn't even found his pencil sharpener by then. 9/11 had been in planning for years.

Yours is one of those few left opinions that I actually pay credence to.

You don't seriously buy into that bullshit do you?

- Harvey, BASE 1232
TAN-I, IAD-I, S&TA

BLiNC Magazine Team Member

[billvon 2,379]

>Ex-squeeze me?

He was warned it was going to happen. He did nothing. Perhaps a better president would have done more; perhaps not. But another president certainly could not do a WORSE job than Bush did in stopping 9/11.

Were there other causes? Certainly, and there were many other opportunities to stop it. There was one last big opportunity when, on August 6th, Bush received a briefing entitled "BIN LADEN DETERMINED TO STRIKE IN US." It listed buildings as targets and mentioned possible hijacking of aircraft. Bush ignored the report. 9/11 occurred.

[kallend 1,619]

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That sort of sense of duty eludes chickenhawks. They feel they are more patriotic by sending others to die while they wave the flag, put magnetic ribbons on their cars and call those who wish for peace unamerican. Most have never even considered joining the service. They are truely the unamericans.

Then (using the chickenhawk logic) YOU cannot comment on the war because YOU have not gone over there. YOU cannot comment on education threads because YOU aren't a teacher. Et cetera, ad nauseam...

I think you have forgotten the "HAWK" part of the equation. A chickenhawk is a HYPOCRITE who wants the war fought, but wants others to do the actual fighting.

If you oppose the war, (or you're willing to go fight yourself), you can't be a chickenhawk.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Para_Frog 1]

Concur, and agencies were notified, but the Gorelick Wall made it impossible - illegal even - to compare data that would have identified patterns.

Bureaucracy is to blame. Not any one individual...but if you needed to pick ONE - Jamie Gorelick.

- Harvey, BASE 1232
TAN-I, IAD-I, S&TA

BLiNC Magazine Team Member

[freethefly 6]

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That sort of sense of duty eludes chickenhawks. They feel they are more patriotic by sending others to die while they wave the flag, put magnetic ribbons on their cars and call those who wish for peace unamerican. Most have never even considered joining the service. They are truely the unamericans.

Then (using the chickenhawk logic) YOU cannot comment on the war because YOU have not gone over there. YOU cannot comment on education threads because YOU aren't a teacher. Et cetera, ad nauseam...

(edit to add) You DO realize that there's more Republicans vets in Congress than Democrat vets, right? So, who's the chickenhawks, again?

The logic does not apply as I am not a chickenhawk. I oppose war and feel that war should be the absolute last resort after all rasonable avenues have been explored. I feel that the conquest of a country that poised no threat to our own is appalling and reeks of a Ghengis Khan mentality. Killing people and destroying their country does nothing to protect this country. There is more hatred for America than there have ever been. We are far worst off due to the crimes of a burnt out cokehead president. We have not moved forward one inch but have fallen back a great distance and it will be years before we get back what Bush has destroyed.

"...And once you're gone, you can't come back
When you're out of the blue and into the black."
Neil Young

[billvon 2,379]

>Bureaucracy is to blame.

I agree that that was a big problem.

>Not any one individual...but if you needed to pick ONE - Jamie Gorelick.

Had Gorelick's procedures prevented Bush from receiving a warning that Bin Laden was determined to strike the US, then I would tend to agree. However, Bush WAS warned, and he alone had the power to stop it in time. Hard to blame Gorelick for lack of action on the executive's part.

[rushmc 18]

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That sort of sense of duty eludes chickenhawks. They feel they are more patriotic by sending others to die while they wave the flag, put magnetic ribbons on their cars and call those who wish for peace unamerican. Most have never even considered joining the service. They are truely the unamericans.

Then (using the chickenhawk logic) YOU cannot comment on the war because YOU have not gone over there. YOU cannot comment on education threads because YOU aren't a teacher. Et cetera, ad nauseam...

(edit to add) You DO realize that there's more Republicans vets in Congress than Democrat vets, right? So, who's the chickenhawks, again?

The logic does not apply as I am not a chickenhawk. I oppose war and feel that war should be the absolute last resort after all rasonable avenues have been explored. it was. SH had many warnings and chances given fron the US and your fall at the alter UNI feel that the conquest of a country that poised no threat to our own is appalling and reeks of a Ghengis Khan mentality.True, but that is not what is happen in Iraq Killing people and destroying their country does nothing to protect this country. Agreed. Nor does yous statment fit the current situation so it is irrelavantThere is more hatred for America than there have ever been. Subjective left wing unprovable but it makes you feel good talking pointWe are far worst off due to the crimes of a burnt out cokehead president. Ah, names and another unreatled Bush rantWe have not moved forward one inch but have fallen back a great distance and it will be years before we get back what Bush has destroyed.

Ah, is that 4 or 5 irrelavant unrelated Bush rants?? I lost count

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[rushmc 18]

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>Bureaucracy is to blame.

I agree that that was a big problem.

>Not any one individual...but if you needed to pick ONE - Jamie Gorelick.

Had Gorelick's procedures prevented Bush from receiving a warning that Bin Laden was determined to strike the US, then I would tend to agree. However, Bush WAS warned, and he alone had the power to stop it in time. Hard to blame Gorelick for lack of action on the executive's part.

I have some ocean front property in Arizona. Interested??

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[billvon 2,379]

>SH had many warnings and chance buy the US and your fall at the alter UN

Was that English? Who wanted to buy the US and what's an alter UN? Is that like a bizarro-world UN?

[rushmc 18]

It was fixed before you even posted. That was fast

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[livetofall 0]

Its too bad you feel that way, Rush. Ron Paul wants to bring back all our troops and putt them on OUR borders where they belong. He wants to STOP foriegn aid, which we give 5 billion a year to that shitty little country that terrorizes the rest of the middle east, the bully that has big brother USA, to make sure they allways get there way, that very country which was spoken of by Bin Laden before 911, and supporters of it would get their share.

How come it is that everybody forgets the Cold war? As long as USSR and USA had nukes..nothing happened because nukes are VERY scary. ISRAEL HAS NUKES...if IRAN HAS NUKES..stand off...peace. As a conservative you should understand this. Iran is not our threat, its that AIPAC controls the congress and they want to stay the bully in charge, to slaugher as many Palestinians as they want, and any Muslims which they consider sub-human. Quit listening to the jewish media, take off the sheep blinders that both cons and libs have, and see who the real enemy is that is killing our kids, and driving our oil prices up. If we go to war with Iran (which AIPAC is allready pressuring) Iran will block the strait, and our gas will be over 10.00 a gallon causing economic collapse..is that really what you want?

www.911missinglinks.com the definitive truth of 9/11..the who and why, not how

You can handle the TRUTH www.theforbiddentruth.net

[Para_Frog 1]

OK. so in July, the Intel Brief is recieved. The next week, GWB begins having all muslim men of fighting age in the US questioned and/or their movements scrutinized.

Thanks to those in your tribe...that would have been met with the ACLU/impeachment/guys with sticks and stones/and a 4-pound chicken.

The viable and POLITICALLY CORRECT solution was to notify the appropriate agencies, who, once notified - developed their own courses of action based on established practices.

These were carried out with the best intentions - but with the very strict caveat that:

#1 - Do not profile (which is ridiculous - coming from an ex-cop)

#2 - do not talk to other agencies (the Gorelick Wall)

They missed. Bad.

These errors cannot be blamed on the Executive.

- Harvey, BASE 1232
TAN-I, IAD-I, S&TA

BLiNC Magazine Team Member

[freethefly 6]

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it was. SH had many warnings and chances given fron the US and your fall at the alter UN

And, exactly why did Bush invade Iraq?
WMD's? The inspectors had yet to finish their jobs when Bush and Thugs were pushing to bomb the people of Iraq. Never had any such weapons been found.

Iraq was on the verge of an all out assualt on the U.S.? That one was just plain stupid. Bush would have you believe that Saddam was gassing up the bombers as he spoke. I guess fear of the impossible works for some folks.

Saddam was working with Bin laden? Never happened. Saddam hated Bin laden and vise-versa.

Al Qaeda was in Iraq plotting with Saddam to attack the U.S.? Al Qaeda in Iraq was made possible thanks to Bush. Saddam had no dealings with Al Qaeda. The U.S. has done more business with Bin laden and Al Qaeda than Saddam has ever done. Al Qaeda emerged from Afghanistan during the Afghan-Russian war. Al Qarda was a CIA operated base designed to train "Freedom Fighters". Al Qaeda, translated, means "The Base". The U.S. can only blame itself for what it wrought.

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True, but that is not what is happen in Iraq

So what is happening in Iraq? A boyscout jamboree? What do you call it when a country invades another, destroys their schools, hospitals, homes, start the ball in motion that will kill thousands of people and then dictates their future? Quacks like a conquest, looks like a conquest. It can only be as such.

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Agreed. Nor does yous statment fit the current situation so it is irrelavant

So killing thousands is irrelevent. After all, you and your kind are the ones who scream that we would all be praising Allah if not for our brave and illustrious leader had not invaded a country that poised no threat. The situation in Iraq has grown more hatred for America. No one sees Bush as a liberator but only as a madman hellbent on waging war in a country he thought would just bend and greet us with flowers inhand. He probally already placed an order for a statue of himself to replace the one of Saddam.

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Subjective left wing unprovable but it makes you feel good talking point

Even the rightwing has admitted to such as more republicans remove their rosey wartime glasses and start seeing the truth.

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Ah, names and another unreatled Bush rant

How about "We are far worst off due to the crimes of a dellusional president with visions of grandeur"

Oh by the way, I read something awhile back of a guy older than 50 joining the army. Maybe you should attempt the same. Hmmm... I'm wondering what was the lame excuse you had for not joining when you were young. Hell, I joined right out of high school during the Iranian Crisis. Where were you?

"...And once you're gone, you can't come back
When you're out of the blue and into the black."
Neil Young

[rushmc 18]

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Its too bad you feel that way, Rush. Ron Paul wants to bring back all our troops and putt them on OUR borders where they belong. He wants to STOP foriegn aid, which we give 5 billion a year to that shitty little country that terrorizes the rest of the middle east, the bully that has big brother USA, to make sure they allways get there way, that very country which was spoken of by Bin Laden before 911, and supporters of it would get their share.

How come it is that everybody forgets the Cold war? As long as USSR and USA had nukes..nothing happened because nukes are VERY scary. ISRAEL HAS NUKES...if IRAN HAS NUKES..stand off...peace. As a conservative you should understand this. Iran is not our threat, its that AIPAC controls the congress and they want to stay the bully in charge, to slaugher as many Palestinians as they want, and any Muslims which they consider sub-human. Quit listening to the jewish media, take off the sheep blinders that both cons and libs have, and see who the real enemy is that is killing our kids, and driving our oil prices up. If we go to war with Iran (which AIPAC is allready pressuring) Iran will block the strait, and our gas will be over 10.00 a gallon causing economic collapse..is that really what you want?

What I want is irrelavant. What is needed and necessary is what has to be considered.

If you think Iran has any interest in peace you are thinking the same way the those viewed Hitler before he attacked.

Gas prices can be kept lower by drilling in the largest oil reserves in the world. Where, the Rockies, of the Texas and Florida coasts and ANWAR.

But we cant have that can we

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[rushmc 18]

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it was. SH had many warnings and chances given fron the US and your fall at the alter UN

And, exactly why did Bush invade Iraq?
WMD's? The inspectors had yet to finish their jobs when Bush and Thugs were pushing to bomb the people of Iraq. Never had any such weapons been found.

Iraq was on the verge of an all out assualt on the U.S.? That one was just plain stupid. Bush would have you believe that Saddam was gassing up the bombers as he spoke. I guess fear of the impossible works for some folks.

Saddam was working with Bin laden? Never happened. Saddam hated Bin laden and vise-versa.

Al Qaeda was in Iraq plotting with Saddam to attack the U.S.? Al Qaeda in Iraq was made possible thanks to Bush. Saddam had no dealings with Al Qaeda. The U.S. has done more business with Bin laden and Al Qaeda than Saddam has ever done. Al Qaeda emerged from Afghanistan during the Afghan-Russian war. Al Qarda was a CIA operated base designed to train "Freedom Fighters". Al Qaeda, translated, means "The Base". The U.S. can only blame itself for what it wrought.

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True, but that is not what is happen in Iraq

So what is happening in Iraq? A boyscout jamboree? What do you call it when a country invades another, destroys their schools, hospitals, homes, start the ball in motion that will kill thousands of people and then dictates their future? Quacks like a conquest, looks like a conquest. It can only be as such.

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Agreed. Nor does yous statment fit the current situation so it is irrelavant

So killing thousands is irrelevent. After all, you and your kind are the ones who scream that we would all be praising Allah if not for our brave and illustrious leader had not invaded a country that poised no threat. The situation in Iraq has grown more hatred for America. No one sees Bush as a liberator but only as a madman hellbent on waging war in a country he thought would just bend and greet us with flowers inhand. He probally already placed an order for a statue of himself to replace the one of Saddam.

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Subjective left wing unprovable but it makes you feel good talking point

Even the rightwing has admitted to such as more republicans remove their rosey wartime glasses and start seeing the truth.

Quote

Ah, names and another unreatled Bush rant

How about "We are far worst off due to the crimes of a dellusional president with visions of grandeur"

Oh by the way, I read something awhile back of a guy older than 50 joining the army. Maybe you should attempt the same. Hmmm... I'm wondering what was the lame excuse you had for not joining when you were young. Hell, I joined right out of high school during the Iranian Crisis. Where were you?

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[freethefly 6]

So what is your lame ass excuse for not joining when you were young? No balls?

"...And once you're gone, you can't come back
When you're out of the blue and into the black."
Neil Young

[mnealtx 0]

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Saddam was working with Bin laden? Never happened. Saddam hated Bin laden and vise-versa.

Translated documents show that Bin Laden met with Iraqi government officials.

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B. An approval to meet with opposer Usama Bin Ladin by the Intelligence Services was given by the Honorable Presidency in its letter 138, dated January 11th 1995 (attachment 6). He [UBL] was met by the previous general director of M ’I M 4 [QCC: possible the previous General Director of Intelligence] in Sudan, with the presence of the Sudanese, Ibrahim Al-Sannusi, on February 19th 1995. A discussion ensued with him about his organization, he [UBL] requested the broadcasting of the speeches of Sheikh Sulayman Al-`Udah (who has an influence within Saudi Arabia and outside, due to his religious and influential personality), to designate a program for them through the radio broadcast directed inside Iraq, and to perform joint operations against the foreign forces in the land of Hijaz. (The Honorable Presidency was informed of the details of the meeting in our letter 370 on March 4th 1995, attachment 7)

C. The approval was received from the Leader, Mr. President, may God keep him, to designate a program for them {QCC: UBL and the Sheikh] through the directed radio broadcast. We were left to develop the relationship and the cooperation between the two sides to find out what other avenues of cooperation and agreement would open up. The Sudanese were informed of the Honorable Presidency’s approval of the above through the representative of the Respectable Director of Intelligence Services our Ambassador in Khartoum.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[rushmc 18]

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Saddam was working with Bin laden? Never happened. Saddam hated Bin laden and vise-versa.

Translated documents show that Bin Laden met with Iraqi government officials.

Quote

B. An approval to meet with opposer Usama Bin Ladin by the Intelligence Services was given by the Honorable Presidency in its letter 138, dated January 11th 1995 (attachment 6). He [UBL] was met by the previous general director of M ’I M 4 [QCC: possible the previous General Director of Intelligence] in Sudan, with the presence of the Sudanese, Ibrahim Al-Sannusi, on February 19th 1995. A discussion ensued with him about his organization, he [UBL] requested the broadcasting of the speeches of Sheikh Sulayman Al-`Udah (who has an influence within Saudi Arabia and outside, due to his religious and influential personality), to designate a program for them through the radio broadcast directed inside Iraq, and to perform joint operations against the foreign forces in the land of Hijaz. (The Honorable Presidency was informed of the details of the meeting in our letter 370 on March 4th 1995, attachment 7)

C. The approval was received from the Leader, Mr. President, may God keep him, to designate a program for them {QCC: UBL and the Sheikh] through the directed radio broadcast. We were left to develop the relationship and the cooperation between the two sides to find out what other avenues of cooperation and agreement would open up. The Sudanese were informed of the Honorable Presidency’s approval of the above through the representative of the Respectable Director of Intelligence Services our Ambassador in Khartoum.

Careful, truth and documents will upset thier world view revealing truth that will make thier heads explode

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[kallend 1,619]

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Saddam was working with Bin laden? Never happened. Saddam hated Bin laden and vise-versa.

Translated documents show that Bin Laden met with Iraqi government officials.

Don Rumsfeld met with Saddam Hussein, IRA leaders visited the White House, Reagan armed Nicaraguan terrorists... your point is???

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[rushmc 18]

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So what is your lame ass excuse for not joining when you were young? No balls?

Here, let me preface a question back to you in the same context.

Why would I answer a lame ass dumb question that is only intended to insult and inflame? WELL???? Got a little dick??

Had you asked a question instead of posing and insult I may have answered. As it is that quesion of yours can get scewed

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[billvon 2,379]

>The next week, GWB begins having all muslim men of fighting age in
>the US questioned and/or their movements scrutinized.

?? What would that have done? Gotten all the persian food places shut down?

Now, had he gone to the CIA and said "find out what the hell is happening NOW, and don't let me hear 'oh, I can't talk to the FBI' any more" then they would have discovered Saudi foreign nationals taking flight instruction in 757 simulators - and that would have ended the threat.

>Thanks to those in your tribe...that would have been met with the
>ACLU/impeachment/guys with sticks and stones/and a 4-pound chicken.

Everyone likes a good chicken!

>These errors cannot be blamed on the Executive.

He was warned. He could have responded. Instead he went on vacation. Now, I know the culture of "it's always someone else's fault" may have trouble understanding this, but with power comes responsibility. Sometimes, when you hear about a threat, you can't go on vacation. Sometimes you have to use your power as president to protect the country. That's true even if the scary liberals or worrisome conservatives might criticize you. If you fear criticism so much that it paralyzes you into inaction - you are no leader worthy of the name.

[mnealtx 0]

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Saddam was working with Bin laden? Never happened. Saddam hated Bin laden and vise-versa.

Translated documents show that Bin Laden met with Iraqi government officials.

Don Rumsfeld met with Saddam Hussein, IRA leaders visited the White House, Reagan armed Nicaraguan terrorists... your point is???

The point is that he was full of shit with his statement... your point is???

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[kallend 1,619]

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Saddam was working with Bin laden? Never happened. Saddam hated Bin laden and vise-versa.

Translated documents show that Bin Laden met with Iraqi government officials.

Don Rumsfeld met with Saddam Hussein, IRA leaders visited the White House, Reagan armed Nicaraguan terrorists... your point is???

The point is that he was full of shit with his statement... your point is???

When Rumsfeld met Saddam, was he "working with him"? You infer something that wasn't there.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[mnealtx 0]

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Saddam was working with Bin laden? Never happened. Saddam hated Bin laden and vise-versa.

Translated documents show that Bin Laden met with Iraqi government officials.

Don Rumsfeld met with Saddam Hussein, IRA leaders visited the White House, Reagan armed Nicaraguan terrorists... your point is???

The point is that he was full of shit with his statement... your point is???

When Rumsfeld met Saddam, was he "working with him"? You infer something that wasn't there.

Perhaps you should re-read the quote... or maybe some of the few remaining links to translated Iraqi documents that talk about the meetings.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[kallend 1,619]

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Quote

Quote

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Saddam was working with Bin laden? Never happened. Saddam hated Bin laden and vise-versa.

Translated documents show that Bin Laden met with Iraqi government officials.

Don Rumsfeld met with Saddam Hussein, IRA leaders visited the White House, Reagan armed Nicaraguan terrorists... your point is???

The point is that he was full of shit with his statement... your point is???

When Rumsfeld met Saddam, was he "working with him"? You infer something that wasn't there.

Perhaps you should re-read the quote... or maybe some of the few remaining links to translated Iraqi documents that talk about the meetings.

Apparently you have never previously read diplomat-ese. You are grasping at straws.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.