SiCKO - What are your thoughts on Michael Moore's new film?

[freethefly 6]

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all he succeeds in doing is deterierating the good order and discipline in our government and the systems to which this nation operates.

Are you talking of the same government that has did a botched up job of running this country, driving it into the dirt, not accomplishing one productive thing, made a mess in other countries, let jobs go to China and other countries, has denied good medical care to those most in need, the same that stuff every bill that crosses its desk with pork and does little for the people but to find new ways to spy on them and to erode our freedoms?
Personally I am glad that there are people who will stand up and scream about how fucking screwed up this government is. It's one our rights to be able to do so.
I am sick of those who claim to be so patriotic but are first to want those who stand up to die for doing so. How unpatriotic to wish death on those excercising their right.

"...And once you're gone, you can't come back
When you're out of the blue and into the black."
Neil Young

[billvon 2,395]

>We don't claim to be the party of warm, fuzzy, love and compassion, while
>we are spewing hate and vitriol out of the other side of our mouths.

Well, at least the hate and vitriol remains undiluted then!

[Erroll 49]

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he doesnt need to be in my country publicly humiliating our leaders and challenging the integrity of this nation.......

Indeed he doesn't. There is more than enough of that being dished out right here in this forum on a daily basis.

[livetofall 0]

I would like to see a new Michael Moore film...one of him going in a all you can eat buffet. Watching him almost bite his fingers off as he stuff his face.... the chinese lady banging him on the back with a pan "you go home now! you no come back! you eat me broke!" that would be great comedy. \
Or hey how about handcuffing and muzzling him and bringing him into a fine Itailan restuarant, all those sweet smells airiating his nose, sweating and shaking like a junkie. We are talking the making a a eat movie with Swinecael Moore!

[Amazon 7]

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We don't claim to be the party of warm, fuzzy, love and compassion, while we are spewing hate and vitriol out of the other side of our mouths.

Gee since its the Party of Morality....... and with such a high percentage of "christians"... I would have thought it would have been closer to what Christ taugh when he was on the planet....... but I guess its really the party of war and death and what was it that brought down that one guy who liked young male pages?

[Newbie 0]

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I would like to see a new Michael Moore film...one of him going in a all you can eat buffet. Watching him almost bite his fingers off as he stuff his face.... the chinese lady banging him on the back with a pan "you go home now! you no come back! you eat me broke!" that would be great comedy. \
Or hey how about handcuffing and muzzling him and bringing him into a fine Itailan restuarant, all those sweet smells airiating his nose, sweating and shaking like a junkie. We are talking the making a a eat movie with Swinecael Moore!

YAWN! People, if you want to attack MM, use something other than his size or looks, it's old hat.

"Skydiving is a door"
Happythoughts

[Newbie 0]

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OK... originally i was going to post here and be a real smart ass... but honestly i hate michael moore. i think he should die. his sole intent is to stir trouble in political seats. all he succeeds in doing is deterierating the good order and discipline in our government and the systems to which this nation operates. here is a question for you.... "if he likes canada so damned much and how they do things, why doesn't he take his dumb-ass up there and live?" he doesnt need to be in my country publicly humiliating our leaders and challenging the integrity of this nation. his idealistic views on reform and revolution our nothing more than nuiscances that slow the development of our country.......

So just because you think the US is a perfect country that needs no change in the way it's run, everyone should agree with you?

Those who want change think that it is brought about by people raising issues that others (those who don't want change) want to brush under the carpet and not discuss.

Using the old "if he loves Canada so much why doesn't he leave the US" is as old hat as that guy attacking MM because of his size and looks, it's yawn inducing. You can love your country but still see problems affecting people and want to induce change can't you? Or should you just be happy with your lot and not care what happens to others?

Why Sicko hits home with me (after having watched it) is it's NOT about the poor, destitue illegals on welfare/Medicaid etc - it's about the average US citizen WHO HAS HEALTH INSURANCE and who won't be covered or will have to fight for their coverage from the health insurance companies who basically will fight you if they think they can save money, even though you should really be entitled to health care.

The film (to me) is highlighting problems that average hard working citizens because the system has been designed to work against them.

"Skydiving is a door"
Happythoughts

[airkid 0]

ok... wow... i caused a little ripple....

first off.... amazon.... yes i would like to see michael moore dead......

freethefly..... you need to take a look around.... because i don't think you realize how lucky you are... this country isn't nearly as bad as some of you want to think that it is....

and finally newbie..... no i do not believe this country is perfect and there is much room to improve it, but i have traveled to many lands and have seen problems that make this seem so trivial. it is not that there is no reason to change that i want to kill michael moore.... it is that his methods of bringing problems to light bring humility upon our nation. he succeeds in humiliating our country on the worlds stage which isn't needed on the face of such a volatile globe who turns to us as an example of power and wealth.

[Amazon 7]

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first off.... amazon.... yes i would like to see michael moore dead......

Wishing someone DEAD because you disagree with them politically????


Do you hit the chapel much on Sunday morning?????

[Thanatos340 1]

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Wishing someone DEAD because you disagree with them politically????

Again.. The Limbaugh comparison come in to pay. I have heard many Treehuggers over the years wish Rush would die. Same thing.

Any reasonable rational person should be able to see that both Rush Limbaugh and Michael Moore are BOTH full of shit. Each spreading lies and distortions that support their opinions and trying to pass those off as fact.

[Amazon 7]

Hell I guess I am guilty .... I always hoped that boil on his ass that kept him from serving his country makes his life..."interesting"

Far cry from wishing him dead.... no matter how many racist...mysogyinistic remarks he makes.

[NCclimber 0]

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first off.... amazon.... yes i would like to see michael moore dead......

Wishing someone DEAD because you disagree with them politically????


Do you hit the chapel much on Sunday morning?????

Assuming someone's a Christian and then implying they are a lousy one. Nothing PA about that.

[freethefly 6]

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freethefly..... you need to take a look around.... because i don't think you realize how lucky you are... this country isn't nearly as bad as some of you want to think that it is....

HAHAHA... think twice kid, I've been to a good number of countries since 1979 and have found some to be worst, some to be about the same and one that was amazing (Australia).
It is absolutely naive to believe that our "leaders(?)" know what is good for us and that questioning them is unpatriotic and deserving of death for doing so. Your statement makes you sound like a brainwashed zombie who would never question your "leaders".
You say I need to look around? I don't know how lucky I am? Well, for one thing, you don't know me or know my situation. Am I lucky that the government decided to pull my medications, effectively handing me a death sentence. The V.A. did THAT after my job went to Mexico and I lost the insurance that paid the V.A. a huge portion of my bill. My meds alone ran near $20,000 per month. One pill alone cost more than $50.00 apiece. I took six of those per day along with a handful of other pills. When I was on meds and getting proper care my weight was near 180. Since being off meds and getting little care (my medicaid will be re-activated in Sept. but, it will only cover monitoring and not meds ) my weight is now 140 and I feel like hell daily. I know firsthand just how FUCKED UP the systems that you claim to be perfect are. Our government needs a thorough cleansing to wash out the scum that has permeated throughout from the top to the bottom. From the presidents (R's and D's) that do nothing to the asshole in some hole in the wall government office who feels that it is their job to make your life a living hell solely because they have that power to do so.
I see that you are in Iraq and I wish you the best but if fortune goes against you (and I sincerly hope it does not) you will find out firsthand just what the health system and the systems attched is all about as it has very little to do with healthcare and everything to do with profits (more than $9000.00 a month for a one month supply of medication!!!!).
Believe those who have looked around and quit believing what self-serving politicians (R's and D's and all the rest) tell you.
Having been caught up in the "system" since 1995, I have an extreme knowledge as to how it works and how it constantly works against a person who is in need of the help that is often denied.

"...And once you're gone, you can't come back
When you're out of the blue and into the black."
Neil Young

[Zipp0 1]

There's nothing like 9 pages of opinion on a film that 99% haven't seen, and probably never will.

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Chuck Norris doesn't do push-ups, he pushes the Earth down.

[CanuckInUSA 0]

I am not a follower of Michael Moore and if he is indeed spreading some untruths in the movie, people need to be aware of this. But in the same breath you are absolutely right that people like Michael Moore have every right to question the system. It is scary to see how many followers on the extreme right are all to willing to take the rights aware from the common citizen. What ever happened to freedom of speech? Or does that freedom only apply to those who follow the views of the extreme right?

The current US medical system needs to be addressed just as the Canadian medical system. Both are flawed. The US system is all about making money and it is squeezing the middle class out of care while the Canadian system is just broken period with very few healthcare professionals left to care for the masses. The US needs to move more to the center from the right while Canada needs to more to the center from the left.

Finally … oh it’s it amusing to see the young know it all cocky males of this world tell us how things work. I remember what it was like to be young, to think you know it all and to not be afraid to tell people how the world works. But the funny thing is as we age, we learn from our life experiences and we look back and say to ourselves “WTF was I thinking … damn I did not know shit back then”. In 1995 as a young very much casing the Jones’s new entrepreneur and I entered into a business venture with a gentleman 10+ years my senior. When things did not go the way I wanted them to go, there I was trying to tell this guy how life and business should work. But he in a mature way said something very simple and very profound to me that has never left my mind since: “I am older than you, I have more life experiences than you, I know more about these things than you do”. How could I argue with the guy? Everything he was saying was true. I was young and cocky but you better believe it was a learning experience. So I hope for his sake the people like “airkid” are smart enough to realize that some older people have more life experiences than he does and that he soon realizes that he is not all that, that he is making a huge mistake to not listen to people who are older and more experienced than him. Of course who am I kidding, the guy obviously knows it all. We all did at that age. LMAO.

Carry on folks … if Michael Moore is spreading his lies; let’s expose them so that people are more informed. But if one thing good does come from this movie, is that it opens up some good dialogue as to how to make the various healthcare systems better so that the middle class (the vast majority of us) are given at least some sort off access to medical coverage.

Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

[Butters 0]

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“I am older than you, I have more life experiences than you, I know more about these things than you do”. How could I argue with the guy?

There are plenty of smart people who are young and dumb people who are old.

"That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch

[Zipp0 1]

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“I am older than you, I have more life experiences than you, I know more about these things than you do”. How could I argue with the guy?

There are plenty of smart people who are young and dumb people who are old.

Yes, but experience/wisdom come with time.

For instance, in combat I would take the advice of a war veteran Sergeant over a noob Ensign any day.

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Chuck Norris doesn't do push-ups, he pushes the Earth down.

[billvon 2,395]

>There's nothing like 9 pages of opinion on a film that 99% haven't seen, and probably never will.

Not sure how to respond to all these posts about healthcare? Don't want to take the time to see the movie or research the various proposals for healtcare reform?

Well fear not! With this easy list, you can reply to any proposal to reform healthcare and push the standard GOP line without fear of straying too far from the party!

1. False equivalency

"These proposals for healthcare reform are the EXACT SAME THING as socialized medicine! Nice try, comrade!"

2. Facile juxtaposition

"Health care nowadays isn't very expensive, at least when compared to things that are a lot more expensive. Like, say, a truck full of diamonds."

3. Wishful thinking

"Most of the uninsured are actually young and healthy! They're probably all partying the day away even as we speak! What do they need health care for?"

4. Fearmongering

"Up in Canada, they have long waits and annoying bureaucracies in their healthcare system! Unlike our system, in which such things are unheard of."

5. Specious rebuttals

"Why stop with health care? Why not throw in guaranteed Cadillacs and prime rib while we're at it? Don't I have the 'right' to drive a nice car, Mr. Liberal?"

6. Free market triumphalism

"People should shop around for health care like any other consumer item, instead of just rushing off to the nearest doctor with every little tumor or heart attack. They'll save money without a bunch of unneeded reform!"

7. Selective contempt

"The government will run health care just like it ran Katrina! They can't do anything right! Well, except for the decision to stay in Iraq. And whatever Bush is proposing now."

8. Sheer chutzpah

"Why are we even discussing this? There's no problem with healthcare! Michael Moore probably made the whole thing up to sell movie tickets, that fat bastard. Makes perfect sense to me."

(With apologies to Dan Perkins)

[Butters 0]

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“I am older than you, I have more life experiences than you, I know more about these things than you do”. How could I argue with the guy?

There are plenty of smart people who are young and dumb people who are old.

Yes, but experience/wisdom come with time.

For instance, in combat I would take the advice of a war veteran Sergeant over a noob Ensign any day.

A person gains experience by having experiences (not by the passage of time). A person gains wisdom by learning from experiences (not by the passage of time).

"That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch

[NCclimber 0]

Good post, Canuck. One of the problems with MM films is he picks a target and proceeds to vilify it, sometimes giving misleading representations of the truth. IMO, this causes more divisiveness, not open honest dialog.

Maybe I'm wrong.

Have any of his previous films really done anything to promote the greater good... or have they just caused the opposing sides of a given subject to become more entrenched in their positions?

All the while, he's raking it in hand over fist.

[CanuckInUSA 0]

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“I am older than you, I have more life experiences than you, I know more about these things than you do”. How could I argue with the guy?

There are plenty of smart people who are young and dumb people who are old.

Geez Butters it is rather unfortunate that you (not me) choose to use words such as "smart" and "dumb" when my message was about life experiences. So in a generic sense that applies to the masses, who is going to have more life experiences ... the know it all teenager/young adult or the person who's been on the planet for ... I don't know let's say 60+ years? To have someone who never experienced a recession like what we had in the early 80s (let alone the great depression which was way before most of our times) tell us that we are in a very bad recession right now just shows us their lack of life experiences compared to someone who is older.

Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

[Butters 0]

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Geez Butters it is rather unfortunate that you (not me) choose to use words such as "smart" and "dumb" when my message was about life experiences.

Geez CanuckInUSA it is rather unfortunate that you (not me) believe that experience and wisdom correlate directly to age.

"That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch

[Newbie 0]

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ok... wow... i caused a little ripple....

first off.... amazon.... yes i would like to see michael moore dead......

freethefly..... you need to take a look around.... because i don't think you realize how lucky you are... this country isn't nearly as bad as some of you want to think that it is....

and finally newbie..... no i do not believe this country is perfect and there is much room to improve it, but i have traveled to many lands and have seen problems that make this seem so trivial. it is not that there is no reason to change that i want to kill michael moore.... it is that his methods of bringing problems to light bring humility upon our nation. he succeeds in humiliating our country on the worlds stage which isn't needed on the face of such a volatile globe who turns to us as an example of power and wealth.

Dude you completely miss the point. As someone on the outside (i.e. one of those people looking at the US, on the worlds stage, as you put it) i can tell you - MM does not humiliate his country. Far from it - it actually shows me how much he loves the US. If you can take a step back from your hatred towards him and actually see that, far from him railing against how much of a terrible place it is, he is actively trying to look at things in a critical light and say - is this really a good thing?

Now, his methods and editing and technique might be far from sound, he might lie through his teeth for all i care, but you know what - he asks questions and gets people talking about issues that frankly need to be talked about.

I am a pro gunner and i enjoy shooting - or did before handguns were banned here. I think CCW is a good thing and most people are law abiding when it comes to gun ownership. But do i still think its worth looking at gun ownership laws, the problems guns cause and so on? Of course! Likewise i think the US has an amazing health care system - however, many many millions of people who should be entitled to said amazing health care system are not being served by it. Does that make me roar with laughter and point my finger in indignation at the US and say "what a stupid country"?

No. It makes me think about how things can be improved, not just there, but here too. His films serve as a reflection for imbalances within countries that should know better. Just becfause he focuses on the US and is a US citizen doesnt mean you are the only guys getting things about face from time to time - trust me, we have more than our share of problems here. But you can't deny he gets people talking and questioning things - and that is crucial if we are to strive to continually improve the lives of those who come after us.

Trust me, he does nothing to humiliate you guys. All he does is try to say "we are a great country but why are some things not working in the best interest of those hard working people who deserve to have the system designed around them" - thats what i get from Sicko anyway, nothing more nothing less.

"Skydiving is a door"
Happythoughts

[Zipp0 1]

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Geez Butters it is rather unfortunate that you (not me) choose to use words such as "smart" and "dumb" when my message was about life experiences.

Geez CanuckInUSA it is rather unfortunate that you (not me) believe that experience and wisdom correlate directly to age.

Well, MOST older people have experienced more than MOST younger people. That's just the way life works.

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Chuck Norris doesn't do push-ups, he pushes the Earth down.

[CanuckInUSA 0]

Experience and wisdom are related to living life. Sure some people never actually live life. But from a generic point of view, living life is related to the number of years we get to experience and the number of things we get exposed to in those years.

Once again to have someone tell us that we are in these horrible economic times right now just shows those of us who have experienced worse how much that person still has to ... I hate to say it ... experience.

Try not to worry about the things you have no control over