0
masterblaster72

Taking a Chicken on a Skydive -- Animal Cruelty?

Recommended Posts

Quote

If they'd let go of it do you recon it could have flown down? I.e. can a chicken glide/ soar?



Depends on the chicken. I know at least some can fly. The big fat white ones that end up in the grocery store though, I think the best they can do is glide/flop about just enough to keep from crashing too hard. It would be more interesting to see it in freefall on it's own that being dragged thru the sky on a tether. What is the point of that? Might as well drag a plush toy chicken on a tether. Or maybe a student.

I don't think chickens contemplate their own (or anything else's) mortality, but they do practice avoidance behavior; so there is some crude form of learning going on. And they can obviously feel pain. So make that 5 or 6 brain cells instead of 3.

And I would not serve asparagus with chicken. I wouldn't serve it with anything at all. Anything that has to be drenched in butter and herbs and spices in order to be palatable should be left off the menu.

I've had that conversation with friends about escargot. They say they love it. I say that is only because it is drowned in butter, garlic, salt, pepper, etc. Go ahead and just yank one out of the shell and eat it. I bet if I took a piece of old gum out from under my desk and gave it the typical escargot treratment they would like it just the same.
" . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I like simple asparagus grilled. Not a lot of treatment there, actually less than sweet corn. You like sweet corn don't you?

I feel the same way about escargot.

If a chicken had 10 brain cells, 9 would be used for shitting.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I heard a secondhand story of a DZ that put out a chicken on a solo pass at 500'. The story was that it flapped its wings for a while, then folded up its wings and went in.

Of course with chickens jumping, you get into all the philosophical questions like:

Why did the chicken swoop the pond?
To get to the other side.
"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

As for the post-jump demeanor, that's hard to read. It wasn't running around like crazy just trotting away when someone got close (like they normally do, I guess). So maybe it was no worse for the wear.

That's because it didn't have a post dive discussion.

So, what did you like about the dive.
You have to use the stadium approach when entering the formation.
Just because you've taken grips doesn't mean that you can stop flying.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
first let me say that i was on that jump, and i thought i was going to puke from laughing so hard.

The rooster is back in the barnyard and is doing fine. I think he even scored some hens from it.

I designed the harness for the safety of the rooster. I am the avian expert that was in charge of the roosters safety. I designed the harness based from a ancient design that was originally used to protect pigeons from raptor attacks. Then i modified it to handle the pressures that would be exerted during freefall. The tether point was positioned carefully to ensure that the wieght and pressure was distrubeted evenly across the weight bearing portions of the skeletal system. The wings on a chicken while of little use flying, still have a great range of motion. The wings were never overextended in any way. He used them that very night to fly up to his perch.

As far as what the chickens perception was...........I think most of the people here have it right. Chickens are so simplistic in thought that its almost sad. I'm sure the wind in the chickens face obstructed his view, so he had no perception of where he was. The only thing that seemed to make him uncomfortable was a lack of footing. He kept just feeling for something to stand on. Having years of experience studying birds and their behavior. I have to agree with the posters that said chickens only eat, breed, and avoid any thing that might be a predator. These are the simplist of instincts. These chickens are use to human presence so I doubt they register us as predators. Hell these things are almost hand fed. If anything we are a food source to them.

In conclusion, since there were no birds of prey, foxes, cats, snakes, or colonel sanders on the skydive I doubt that it ever registered any real fear. Its behavior was normal immediately after landing. I really beleive that if his feet had been touching something that it wouldnt be much different than a chicken being outside during a really windy day.

P.s.

chickens only see well close up anyway. so he had no clue he was 14000 ft.
I'll huff and I'll puff and I'll burn your fucking packing tent down.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
That's all good to know; but I still have to ask: What was the point of doing it? Just kicks and giggles? Which is fine; just wondering.
" . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

What do you think -- animal cruelty or humane fun for the chicken? Curious to hear your opinion.



Animal cruelty?

Take a newborn chick and chop off it's beak. Next, shove it into a tiny wire cage for it's entire short little life where it never sees the light of day and lives in it's own shit. Finally, transport it to a place where it will very possibly be scalded to death.

That is real animal cruelty, and happens to millions and millions of chickens (who have IQs and feelings in the same range as your dog or cat) every year.

In comparison, one chicken enduring a skydive is a walk in the park.


. . =(_8^(1)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

That is real animal cruelty, and happens to millions and millions of chickens (who have IQs and feelings in the same range as your dog or cat) every year.



Interesting post. Care to elaborate on the part I bolded?

The man who posted above you, who was on the jump, implied that chickens aren't very intelligent, so I wonder what your source is for a chicken's intelligence being in the same range as a dog's or cat's...just curious, thanks.

Be humble, ask questions, listen, learn, follow the golden rule, talk when necessary, and know when to shut the fuck up.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote


Quote

That is real animal cruelty, and happens to millions and millions of chickens (who have IQs and feelings in the same range as your dog or cat) every year.



Interesting post. Care to elaborate on the part I bolded?

The man who posted above you, who was on the jump, implied that chickens aren't very intelligent, so I wonder what your source is for a chicken's intelligence being in the same range as a dog's or cat's...just curious, thanks.



It's in the same range.

You know - 3 < IQ < 115

dogs and chickens all fall in that 'same range'

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
any learning or association that a chicken is capable of is purely for the sake of finding food and avoiding predators. I assure you that a chicken is not capable of the emotional range of a dog. Try teaching a chicken to sit and rollover or even house train one. I assure you much more difficult. The reason being?.....easy. chikens are not responsive to emotions. A chicken doesnt know or care when you are sad or happy. A dog has the perception for these feelings and wants to please you. Therefore it is willing to learn how.

I do agree that a chicken that has received zero physical harm and only slight mental disruption fails in comparison to what happens to millions of them each year. I doubt this chicken even remembered the skydive 20 minutes after it happened. I know people that didnt remeber the first 30 seconds of a skydive 30 seconds after it happened.
I'll huff and I'll puff and I'll burn your fucking packing tent down.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
thats why IQ is something that isnt useful in gauging an animals memory or intelligence. Basing an animals IQ on the same scale that we use for a human isnt practical. These are all different species with different brains and different maximum potentials. Now we could develop a chicken IQ scale then determine the IQ of an individual chicken. then use that number to differentiate between the smartest of the chickens. then you could see what number that was relative to on a human scale and we could make a direct comparison.

Example: We might find that one particular chicken would be relatively comparible to albert einstien even though we all know this chicken couldnt do equations. But i bet he could find the hell out of some food and out compete all other chickens at this task. this chicken while not a scientist has however maximized its instinct and capabilities. therefore making it a "smart chicken"

Its all relative people
I'll huff and I'll puff and I'll burn your fucking packing tent down.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

I wonder what your source is for a chicken's intelligence being in the same range as a dog's or cat's...just curious, thanks.



A good source of info would be to google "chicken intelligence" or a similar phrase. You'll find a good diversity of info, not all of which originates from wacko animal rights groups.

My other source is my own experience with them. While they aren't a match with dogs for "wanting to please humans" as another poster mentioned, that doesn't mean they don't have smarts. They do, and they definitely experience strong emotions -- fear, happiness, even jealosy. Etcetera.

Ever had a pet bird? I currently have a hand raised cockatiel. He gets ansy when he detects I'm leaving for work. He gets happy when I return. He pokes his head under my hand when he wants petting. He has initial fear when he meets a stranger, but warms up when he gets to know them.

Does that sound like any other types of pet? ;)


. . =(_8^(1)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I have alot of experience with birds of all kind.

chickens are not as intelligent as parrots, so its hard to compare the two. Perhaps your parrot is sad when you leave because you are source of entertainment for it. when you leave your bird is bored because he is stuck in a cage. Parrots are naturally active birds. Your bird isnt "sad" to see you leave. At least not the same way we as people feel sadness. When you leave it is more like turning the TV off. His primary source of entertainment is now over. I'm also sure that as a loving pet owner you give your bird treats. This is just building an association with you and food. Now he is excited to see you because he knows the possibility of food awaits him. I assure you most of his behavior is tied to these natural instincts.

If a chicken pecks my hand and i reward it with a peice of food. Then what am i doing? I am reinforcing this behavior by taking advantage of its natural instincts. before you know it i have a chicken that runs to me and pecks my hand. Its not because the chicken is affectionate toward me. Its because it as identified a easy food source. Even though an observer might say "wow that chicken loves you" I know that it is not true. That chicken just loves food.

so i think i am correct.

also some birds are more social by nature as well. these birds generally show more "affection" towards people. This is really just transference of a natural desire on the only readily available cohabitant.

lets not even get into the mind game that is imprinting

was your parrot an imprint?
I'll huff and I'll puff and I'll burn your fucking packing tent down.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

Perhaps your parrot is sad when you leave because you are source of entertainment for it.



Exactly. Has nothing to do with fear or food -- he just knows his buddy is leaving and is sad for whatever reason. Sort of like a dog. Cats, not so much. Does that make cats less intelligent? No -- but we are cherry-picking attributes to identify "intelligence". That's fine, let's continue.

Quote

When you leave your bird is bored because he is stuck in a cage. Parrots are naturally active birds. Your bird isnt "sad" to see you leave. At least not the same way we as people feel sadness.



Well, don't put me in the category of animal lover that's deluded into thinking birds (or dogs or cats) experience thought as people do. I'm fully aware that they're way down the scale. But we aren't arguing that these animals are as smart as people, we are arguing that birds have similar intelligence to dogs and cats. But yes, they do indeed feel and express "sadness" in their own way.

Quote

I'm also sure that as a loving pet owner you give your bird treats. This is just building an association with you and food.



Sure, I give treats, but it is fairly infrequent (shame on me). There is no way my bird's association with me is based soley or even mostly on food. I personally think the biggest association is that he knows he'll get affection in the form of petting. That's the strongest bond.

Quote

Now he is excited to see you because he knows the possibility of food awaits him. I assure you most of his behavior is tied to these natural instincts.



Again, I think he's happy to see me over the affection. The food bowl is always full, and his eating habits don't vary much whether I am there or not. But he loves petting and gets bitchy when I come up short.

Quote

. . . before you know it i have a chicken that runs to me and pecks my hand. Its not because the chicken is affectionate toward me. Its because it as identified a easy food source.



Agreed, much like a dog. :)and exhibit true affection for you in whatever their capacity to exhibit affection may be. It surely isn't love on a human scale, but it is love on an animal scale.

We don't disagree that that which drives animals is usually tied to food, sex, survival or other basic stuff. I am just supposing that dogs, cats, birds, pigs, etc. have similar intelligence levels.

Whoever said previously that chickens use 9 of 10 brain cells to shit is way off base. Chickens are indeed complex social beings that feel and think at a pretty high level.

[veggie rant]
I gave up eating animals years ago due to the fact that our modern day way of bringing these complex, social, feeling animals to table is extremely cruel. Gone are the days of going out and hunting down your meat, and gone even are the days of raising chickens in a pen where they can scratch around and live a little before they are slaughtered. Today, we "grow" them under extremely disgusting conditions in which tremendous suffering takes place, even if it is "just" animal suffering. Most people know this in their hearts, but block it out so it doesn't get in the way of enjoying that nice big bucket 'o lard from KFC. Same cruelty and resulting suffering applies to pigs, cows, etc.

However, enlightenment is underway. What most unenlightened folk view today as "wacko" animal rights groups actually consist of people who've stopped living in ignorance of the previously mentioned extreme suffering brought upon farm animals, and are attempting to do something about it. Yea, PETA at it's core may consist today of a group of goofy college kids in Norfolk, but they are maturing and will ulimately END lots of suffering that exists despite that the average Joe refuses to think about it. I applaud them and the other zillion groups of people who care about animal suffering.
/veggie rant]

Quote

Even though an observer might say "wow that chicken dog loves you" I know that it is not true. That chicken dog just loves food.



Fixed it for you. ;)

Quote

so i think i am correct.



You are not incorrect in your basic points, but I say, "so what". You haven't demonstrated that birds, including chickens, are any less intelligent than dogs or cats. Chickens think, they have emotions, they express affection (even if it is over food, which ain't always the case), they feel pain, and they suffer mightily in today's farms. Sad.

Quote

was your parrot an imprint?



I am fuzzy on what an imprint is. If it means regurgitation, then no. I've never seen that in any of my birds past or present. If it means they think they are human, then yea, maybe so. ;)


. . =(_8^(1)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
its a nice debate skydyvr.

Imprint basically does mean he thinks hes human, or he thinks you are a parrot. Either way he thinks of you as equals.

Imprints are birds that are taken from the parents to young. therefore they "imprint" on there new human parents. It makes for a bird that has no natural predatory fear of humans. Therefore no respect for you. You are its equal.

This leads to problems with birds that are naturally territorial. When the bird matures it shows aggression because you are in its territory.

They will also show mating behavior towards you.
I'll huff and I'll puff and I'll burn your fucking packing tent down.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

0