freethefly 6 #51 June 8, 2007 QuoteQuoteQuoteFeel free to provide crime stats to prove that CCW license holders are less law-abiding than the general public or police. At no time did I ever say "less law abiding". Here, I'll spell it out for you real nice and slow so that you can understand, J-U-S-T A-S L-I-K-E-L-Y. If you should need further help please contact an interpeter. As for statistics, doing your own freaking research. After you, my friend...your "likelyhood" of committing crimes doesn't trump the FACT that CCW holders are proven to commit less crimes. I have searched for a statistic to your "FACT" and found none. Please provide a link as my search proved to be futile. For what it is worth, I am a gun owner and have owned guns for 40 years. In those years I have commited a few crimes. Got locked up for a concealed weapons charge in California. A buck knife, in the case, on my belt that my jacket barely covered. A crap, trumped up charge. To hear you put it, legal gun owners never commit crimes. Anyone is likely to commit crime, be it small or large. Ask any cop. As my nephew puts it (he is a cop) "everyone is a suspect"."...And once you're gone, you can't come back When you're out of the blue and into the black." Neil Young Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #52 June 8, 2007 I never said they committed *no* crimes... I said they commit LESS crimes. You think the Brady Bunch wouldn't be trumpeting it all over the airwaves if that wasn't the case? They like to put up McVeigh as a poster child of all CCW holders...but when pressed, can't come up with anything else.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jenfly00 0 #53 June 8, 2007 Quote Quote The citizens, despite paying taxes, have no representation in Congress! And would you like to wager $100 on THAT? Why, yes, I would Perhaps you are thinking of http://www.dcvote.org/advocacy/dcvramain.cfm----------------------- "O brave new world that has such people in it". Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Weezil 0 #54 June 8, 2007 How the hell can you compare a car accident to a car bomb? There is nothing accidental about a car bomb, or the terror and mayhem that ensues. Maybe you should try living somewhere where car bombs are a reality of everyday life and you will almost certainly think differently. To trivialise acts of terroroism says alot about your lack of understanding of world affairs...... Yes I know I am a lurker and this is my first time post, but the urge to point out such a ridiculous statement far outweighs the need for an introduction. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
idrankwhat 0 #55 June 8, 2007 Quote Yes I know I am a lurker and this is my first time post, but the urge to point out such a ridiculous statement far outweighs the need for an introduction. Welcome!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Weezil 0 #56 June 8, 2007 Thanks. Forgot to say hello everyone Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freethefly 6 #57 June 8, 2007 Quote I never said they committed *no* crimes... I said they commit LESS crimes. You think the Brady Bunch wouldn't be trumpeting it all over the airwaves if that wasn't the case? They like to put up McVeigh as a poster child of all CCW holders...but when pressed, can't come up with anything else. Alright, I do agree with that. For the record, I am not for total gun control. I do believe, however, that there is a need for limited control. I do know legal gun owners who shouldn't have a gun due to their drinking habits and their quick tempers. There was a time when I, myself, should not have had a gun due to my drinking habit and quick temper. 12 years sober"...And once you're gone, you can't come back When you're out of the blue and into the black." Neil Young Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 3 #58 June 8, 2007 Quote Quote Quote The citizens, despite paying taxes, have no representation in Congress! And would you like to wager $100 on THAT? Why, yes, I would Well, I think your statement of "The citizens, despite paying taxes, have no representation in Congress!" would come as quite a shock to Eleanor Holmes Norton as well as Michael D. Brown, Paul Strauss and Mik Panetta.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,121 #59 June 8, 2007 it is a bit of a semantics game, since DC has very limited representation with limited voting powers. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #60 June 8, 2007 QuoteHow the hell can you compare a car accident to a car bomb? Dead is dead, it doesn't much matter how you got that way. Whether from a drunk driver or a Muslim suicide bomber, the end result is the same. The mayhem on America's streets from car accidents is 40,000 per year. That's thirteen times the number of soldiers killed in Iraq, in all the years of the war. And it happens each and every year! We should all cut and run from this horrible country, and go live on islands somewhere where cars and roads do not exist. That's the only way to escape the horrible carnage. There's a reason the word "carnage" starts with the word "car". This country ain't worth saving, and the death toll just isn't worth it. Cut and run! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #61 June 8, 2007 We've been fighting the war on poverty and the war against illegal drugs, for decades. And yet, we still have poverty, and you can still buy crack cocaine in any city in America. So when are the politicians going to set an end date to the wars on poverty and illicit drugs? I'm tired of waiting for the open-ended strategy to produce victory. I want a date-certain set by which either victory will have been achieved, or else we'll give up and surrender. If the war on poverty is not won in 6 months, with every single American subsisting on a decent livable wage, then I want to pull-out all the resources we're currently devoting to that war. No more social security, no more welfare, no more food stamps. Win it quick, or get out. Likewise, if the war on illegal drugs is not won within 6 months, then we should abandon all efforts to fight illegal drugs, and devote those resources to other pressing crime matters. No more customs, no more border patrol, no more police anti-drug units, no more drug-sniffing dogs, no more DEA. Either win it fast, or get out. Alas, given that these wars have already been on-going for decades, it is time to admit defeat. Abandon the efforts, and let the poor and the drug criminals run rampant. Nothing will ever solve these problems, and we just shouldn't waste time, money and lives trying any more. If that results in chaos and massive casualties, so be it. Cut and run! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
idrankwhat 0 #62 June 8, 2007 QuoteQuoteHow the hell can you compare a car accident to a car bomb? Dead is dead, it doesn't much matter how you got that way. The mayhem on America's streets from car accidents is 40,000 per year. That's thirteen times the number of soldiers killed in Iraq, in all the years of the war. And it happens each and every year! I gave it a day, thinking that the lamest argument in support of the Iraq war I've ever heard might die out. I guess I was wrong. Hey, why don't we just kill everybody on earth? We're all going to die anyway. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
akarunway 1 #63 June 8, 2007 Quote Quote Quote The citizens, despite paying taxes, have no representation in Congress! And would you like to wager $100 on THAT? Why, yes, I would Perhaps you are thinking of http://www.dcvote.org/advocacy/dcvramain.cfm Read the first paragraph very carefully. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_StatesI hold it true, whate'er befall; I feel it, when I sorrow most; 'Tis better to have loved and lost Than never to have loved at all. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pirana 0 #64 June 8, 2007 California. Next question please. Actually, I cheated and read the answer at the bottom of the post. But seriously. That is far less crime than I would have guessed." . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freethefly 6 #65 June 8, 2007 QuoteLikewise, if the war on illegal drugs is not won within 6 months, then we should abandon all efforts to fight illegal drugs, and devote those resources to other pressing crime matters. No more customs, no more border patrol, no more police anti-drug units, no more drug-sniffing dogs, no more DEA. Either win it fast, or get out. The "war on drugs" has focused primarily on marijuana. It is not even really a war on the plant itself but, a war on those who use it. It has, also, created cottage industries that rely on it remaining illegal. A person convicted must then support those industries. It is absurd that a conviction can get a person more time than a person convicted of murder. It is absurd that a person convicted can no longer apply for federal grant money for education while a person convicted of murder can. The "war on drugs" is a sham. Agencies such as the DEA and all others drug task forces thank their lucky stars each and every day for drugs as it keeps them in business. The amount of money they waste playing their game is sickening. What they do should be a crime. A person arrested for less than 1 joint can lose everything. All for a plant that has never killed anyone while tobacco and alcohol remain a legal commodity. The "war on marijuana" is not a public health issue. If it was then tobacco and alcohol should also be placed on the same list and any person caught using should face the same harsh penalties that pot smokers face. Legalizing marijuana would not be the death of this country. Legalization and taxation would rid us of the organized crimminal groups that control its movement. It would free up the courts, lessen prison populations, beef up state coffers, provide another crop for farmers and allow the police to focus on real crime. Sad that some politicians use it to be seen as "tough on crime". Use it to instill paranoia in the gulliable. The biggest danger that marijuana imposes is the legislation against it. When 70% of the country is against the criminalization of marijuana it is absurd to continue the war on it. But, politicians love to use the word "war". It makes them feel tough. Some interesting points concerning marijuana: http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/dope/interviews/schlosser.html http://www.a1b2c3.com/drugs/mj004.htm Mayor LaGuardia: "That being so, the orderly thing to do, under our form of government, is to abolish a law that cannot be enforced, a law that the people of the country do not want enforced.""...And once you're gone, you can't come back When you're out of the blue and into the black." Neil Young Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #66 June 8, 2007 Quote I gave it a day, thinking that the lamest argument in support of the Iraq war I've ever heard might die out. I guess I was wrong. Hey, why don't we just kill everybody on earth? We're all going to die anyway. Yeah - I see he didn't want to engage on the matter of 1 in 6500 versus 1 in 100-150. Throw in the fact that our army doctors are saving a large portion of the wounded then ever, and the casualty rate could more than 5% of the soldiers per year. If 5% of the motorists in America were getting killed or maimed every year, yeah, we'd move, or ban cars. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jenfly00 0 #67 June 8, 2007 Quote Quote Quote Quote The citizens, despite paying taxes, have no representation in Congress! And would you like to wager $100 on THAT? Why, yes, I would Well, I think your statement of "The citizens, despite paying taxes, have no representation in Congress!" would come as quite a shock to Eleanor Holmes Norton as well as Michael D. Brown, Paul Strauss and Mik Panetta. I don't believe they would be at all suprised. They well understand that no representation is possible with voting power. ...hence the proposed DC Voting Rights bill. http://www.dcvote.org/advocacy/dcvramain.cfm----------------------- "O brave new world that has such people in it". Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jenfly00 0 #68 June 8, 2007 Quote Quote Quote Quote The citizens, despite paying taxes, have no representation in Congress! And would you like to wager $100 on THAT? Why, yes, I would Perhaps you are thinking of http://www.dcvote.org/advocacy/dcvramain.cfm Read the first paragraph very carefully. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States and...?----------------------- "O brave new world that has such people in it". Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
livetofall 0 #69 June 8, 2007 AMEN!www.911missinglinks.com the definitive truth of 9/11..the who and why, not how You can handle the TRUTH www.theforbiddentruth.net Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,623 #70 June 8, 2007 QuoteWe've been fighting the war on poverty and the war against illegal drugs, for decades. And yet, we still have poverty, and you can still buy crack cocaine in any city in America. ! And there is always the War on Misuse of the Word "WAR" for Political Gain.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freethefly 6 #71 June 9, 2007 QuoteQuoteWe've been fighting the war on poverty and the war against illegal drugs, for decades. And yet, we still have poverty, and you can still buy crack cocaine in any city in America. ! And there is always the War on Misuse of the Word "WAR" for Political Gain. But, but.. it makes them feel tough while standing safely back from the front and shaking their fist while others die or are being imprisoned."...And once you're gone, you can't come back When you're out of the blue and into the black." Neil Young Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
akarunway 1 #72 June 9, 2007 Quote Quote Quote Quote Quote The citizens, despite paying taxes, have no representation in Congress! And would you like to wager $100 on THAT? Why, yes, I would Perhaps you are thinking of http://www.dcvote.org/advocacy/dcvramain.cfm Read the first paragraph very carefully. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States and...? I think there are only 50 states, not 51. And a few territories. Is fuckin Guam or Puerto Rico a state?I hold it true, whate'er befall; I feel it, when I sorrow most; 'Tis better to have loved and lost Than never to have loved at all. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
idrankwhat 0 #73 June 11, 2007 QuoteQuote I gave it a day, thinking that the lamest argument in support of the Iraq war I've ever heard might die out. I guess I was wrong. Hey, why don't we just kill everybody on earth? We're all going to die anyway. Yeah - I see he didn't want to engage on the matter of 1 in 6500 versus 1 in 100-150. Throw in the fact that our army doctors are saving a large portion of the wounded then ever, and the casualty rate could more than 5% of the soldiers per year. If 5% of the motorists in America were getting killed or maimed every year, yeah, we'd move, or ban cars. And I've also been waiting for someone to point out the obvious point that California is part of the United States and that Iraq was/is an ill conceived imperialist nation building exercise designed in part to protect another non-US entity which can't seem to quit provoking its neighbors. In addition, the exercise is succeeding in creating more of the very thing that it is purported to be fighting. But if it's easier to stick to transportation analogies then basically the answer to the California transportation death problem would be to build fleets of Hindenburgs and Ford Pintos. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,396 #74 June 11, 2007 > We've been fighting the war on poverty and the war against illegal >drugs, for decades. And yet, we still have poverty, and you can still buy >crack cocaine in any city in America. Then let's end the war and spend that money on educating people to better support themselves, and on drug education in high schools so people know _why_ they are illegal and what they can do to you. >So when are the politicians going to set an end date to the wars on poverty >and illicit drugs? Soon, I hope. We need to have fewer "wars" and start spending that money in more productive ways. >If the war on poverty is not won in 6 months, with every single American >subsisting on a decent livable wage, then I want to pull-out all the >resources we're currently devoting to that war. No more social security, no > more welfare, no more food stamps. Win it quick, or get out. ?? Just end the "war." Switch to a credit-card-based system for welfare that works for only essentials, and cannot be used to buy steaks, beer or cigarettes. Use the money saved on education. >Alas, given that these wars have already been on-going for decades, it is >time to admit defeat. Abandon the efforts, and let the poor and the drug >criminals run rampant. Nothing will ever solve these problems, and we just >shouldn't waste time, money and lives trying any more. If that results in >chaos and massive casualties, so be it. Again, no. Helping people does not equal war. It's a stupid term used to garner support for ill-considered programs. Stop the "wars," come up with programs that work and solve the problems. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NCclimber 0 #75 June 11, 2007 Quote?? Just end the "war." Switch to a credit-card-based system for welfare that works for only essentials, and cannot be used to buy steaks, beer or cigarettes. Use the money saved on education. What money saved? You can't buy alcohol or tobacco with food stamps. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
