Near-death experiences and the implications. Theories... opinions?

[gontleman 0]

So last night I came home and my mom stopped me before I even made it to my room to tell me about her day.

(A wee bit o backstory here would be that my mom gave blood a couple weekends ago. After doing so, she was loopy for about 3 days. She finally recovered but I was pretty concerned for her.)

Apparently she went to the doctor to have some blood work done. They apparently needed 3 vials, and a finger prick's worth of blood. They poke one arm, no blood coming out. They poke the other... nothing. They boke both of them again in different spots... nothing. So they move to the finger prick. She wouldn't bleed. They had to squeeze the blood out drop by drop to fill the little tube. Another nurse comes back to do some crazy IV type thing to get the rest of the blood. They get 1 and a half vials before her vein pops.

Shortly after, she blacks out. (Unbeknownst to her at the time, her heart stopped) She told me that she "woke up" in a place that all she could tell me about was that there were a lot of people, and she was happy, and everyone else was happy. She remembers thinking, while she was there, that maybe she was happy because she thought her mom might be there (died 2 years ago)m But then she started getting called back by the nurses and doctor. So as far as my research indicates, that is a classic near death experience though limited compared to other stories.

So I read up on it as it's been a while since I've read anything of that nature. A huge resource would be www.near-death.com Fair warning about the "religious" bias of that website. It would appear that the guy who runs that deal is someone akin to myself and my more respected friends as far as beliefs go. His existential theory relies on a greater collective consciousness/spirit which equates to "God". A lot of what he believes is directly in line with my theories so it struck a chord with me (not that it matters to you all ;-) ) But that doesn't really give cause to discount the stories and some of the theories presented so check it out. (Funny that the guy claims he used to be a fundie Christian. Also struck a chord with me as I claimed myself to be that way as well.)

My original point in starting the thread was to get a feel for how people believe about the afterlife. As I've grown older (and a LITTLE wiser) I've come to the conclusion after much searching, questioning, reasoning, etc., that reincarnation (in the sense that the website given presents it) is pretty much how it goes. Of course this is totally dependent on the belief in a collective consciousness or spirit realm. I essentially reasoned out about 3 years ago that all that exists is a single entitiy, infinite in scope, which you can call god if you want, and that it has a consciousness/awareness of its own that we all share a part of and contribute to with our experiences.

On another note... has anyone had an NDE or known someone who has had one?

[quade 3]

Other alternatives to religious theories;

http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/healthnews.php?newsid=41428

http://abcnews.go.com/Health/story?id=1827038

http://science.howstuffworks.com/near-death-experience3.htm

And in particular, read this last one.
http://www.csicop.org/si/2004-05/near-death-experience.html

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[Andy9o8 0]

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On another note... has anyone had an NDE or known someone who has had one?

I've heard plenty of the "out of body; looking down at myself; saw the bright light" stories. We've all heard those. As Quade's links suggest, I've always presumed they were essentially dream-state hallucinations. I've never read or heard anything to persuade me otherwise.

[Butters 0]

There are theories that the body produces larger amounts of dimethyltryptamine, a powerful hallucinogen, during highly stressful situations such as a near death experience.

"That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch

[AFFI 0]

Glad you mom is alright, sounds like a pretty intense experience from just having blood drawn.


As for the afterlife? I once read that the chances of anyone finding out what really is going on is so absurdly remote, it is just best to hang the sense of it and keep yourself occupied (Douglass Adams).

This bit of advice has really helped me a lot – death will work itself out, living has enough concerns of its own…

-

Mykel AFF-I10
Skydiving Priorities: 1) Open Canopy. 2) Land Safely. 3) Don’t hurt anyone. 4) Repeat…

[Richards 0]

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Shortly after, she blacks out. (Unbeknownst to her at the time, her heart stopped) She told me that she "woke up" in a place that all she could tell me about was that there were a lot of people, and she was happy, and everyone else was happy. She remembers thinking, while she was there, that maybe she was happy because she thought her mom might be there (died 2 years ago)m But then she started getting called back by the nurses and doctor. So as far as my research indicates, that is a classic near death experience though limited compared to other stories.

I've heard many versions of that warm and fuzzy experience. I wonder if anyone in a near death experience finds themselves facing hell. Do only good people have near death experiences or are there terrifying near death "afterlife" stories/experiences out there?

My biggest handicap is that sometimes the hole in the front of my head operates a tad bit faster than the grey matter contained within.

[Andy9o8 0]

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I've heard many versions of that warm and fuzzy experience. I wonder if anyone in a near death experience finds themselves facing hell. Do only good people have near death experiences or are there terrifying near death "afterlife" stories/experiences out there?

I would imagine that dream-state hallucinations brought about by sudden unconsciousness due to loss of blood flow to the brain would either occur, or not occur, independent of whether the person was good or evil.

[Richards 0]

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I would imagine that dream-state hallucinations brought about by sudden unconsciousness due to loss of blood flow to the brain would either occur, or not occur, independent of whether the person was good or evil.

[ExAFO 0]

I nearly drowned in the Bahamas (Scuba accident), and all I felt was lightheaded and all I saw was the onset of tunnel vision...Not terribly remarkable...panic followed by a feeling of relaxation...

Illinois needs a CCW Law. NOW.

[Andy9o8 0]

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would it not stand to reason that a person who has lived a terrible life and is wracked with some sort of repressed guilt would have a hallucination where they did not see a white light and all the loved ones who have deceased?

That is so completely speculative and subjective that no, it doesn't stand to reason at all. It is simply what you happen to think, probably based upon your own personal values.

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Why don't some wake up screaming in terror begging for a second chance?

I do that every morning at 5:10 a.m. Then I turn off the clock radio, take a shower, and get ready for my day.

[Richards 0]

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would it not stand to reason that a person who has lived a terrible life and is wracked with some sort of repressed guilt would have a hallucination where they did not see a white light and all the loved ones who have deceased?

That is so completely speculative and subjective that no, it doesn't stand to reason at all. It is simply what you happen to think, probably based upon your own personal values.

I don't see how so. I am not really religious and have no strong feeling or values with respect to this issue. I just feel it is logical that since most of us have both good dreams and nightmares, it seems that someone who has some degree of religious beleif but has some unresolved issue could potentially have a bad afterlife dream instead of a good one. Why do these hallucinations only go one way?

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Why don't some wake up screaming in terror begging for a second chance?

I do that every morning at 5:10 a.m. Then I turn off the clock radio, take a shower, and get ready for my day.

Me too.

My biggest handicap is that sometimes the hole in the front of my head operates a tad bit faster than the grey matter contained within.

[Andy9o8 0]

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> why are we not hearing about it?

> Why do these hallucinations only go one way?

I don't know. Probably because people who are basically assholes generally don't get featured on Evening Edition.

[Richards 0]

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I don't know. Probably because people who are basically assholes generally don't get featured on Evening Edition.

[Andy9o8 0]

In other words, supernatural explanations for natural occurrences are basically bullshit and fraud. Glad we agree.

[sundevil777 93]

From one of your links:

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The experiences of people whose out-of-body adventures allow them to see and hear events that their unconscious body shouldn't be able to perceive are more difficult to explain. However, it is plausible that unconscious people can still register sensory cues and prior knowledge and incorporate them into their NDE. Whether this is more plausible than the subject's soul floating out of their body is a matter of personal opinion.

Except for this paragraph, the information in the links you provided did not at all address the near dead being able to see what they shouldn't be able to see. To write an article on NDE without bringing this up is terrible journalism, I think.

People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

[Butters 0]

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From one of your links:

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The experiences of people whose out-of-body adventures allow them to see and hear events that their unconscious body shouldn't be able to perceive are more difficult to explain. However, it is plausible that unconscious people can still register sensory cues and prior knowledge and incorporate them into their NDE. Whether this is more plausible than the subject's soul floating out of their body is a matter of personal opinion.

Except for this paragraph, the information in the links you provided did not at all address the near dead being able to see what they shouldn't be able to see. To write an article on NDE without bringing this up is terrible journalism, I think.

Once again, study dimethyltryptamine (DMT).

"That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch

[JackC 0]

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Has anyone like that had a dream where they were being sent away by St. Peter and dragged down into hell by demons?

FWIW I remember seeing one woman on tv who claimed to have had just that. Apparently it scared the shit out of her and she immediately found religion in a big way. Musta been some good shrooms.

[jenfly00 0]

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Unbeknownst to her at the time, her heart stopped)

How does she know this?

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"O brave new world that has such people in it".

[smiles 0]

i recently was on iv antibiotic treatment as an outpatient- nurses had horrible time with finding good veins (said mine were small and squiggly)...anyway after warming up towels and poking over and over everyday they decided i was dehydrated and told me to drink huge water.

What a difference, the next day my veins were very plump and easy to get.........

SMiles

eustress. : a positive form of stress having a beneficial effect on health, motivation, performance, and emotional well-being.

[jm951 0]

I know two people who have had this experience. Both related similar stories. Both were totally flat lined, eeg, ekg, resp, bp. One for over an hour, the other for just over 30 min. I highly doubt they had "dream" state hallucinations. Some things can't be explained by anything other than faith. I have heard of some folks being "dragged" into hell, so that is present in the anecdotal evidence.

[Richards 0]

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In other words, supernatural explanations for natural occurrences are basically bullshit and fraud. Glad we agree.

Pretty much. I try to avoid putting down those who do beleive in it though, or saying it's ridiculous. I can say that absolutely nothing I have experienced in my life would support any of this paranormal stuff, so I draw an inference from that.

As for God, I won't say that I don't beleive. I have my beleifs but I do not subscribe to a specific religion however.

My biggest handicap is that sometimes the hole in the front of my head operates a tad bit faster than the grey matter contained within.

[Richards 0]

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FWIW I remember seeing one woman on tv who claimed to have had just that. Apparently it scared the shit out of her and she immediately found religion in a big way. .

[gontleman 0]

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Unbeknownst to her at the time, her heart stopped)

How does she know this?

The nurses/doctors told her after she came to.

[JackC 0]

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FWIW I remember seeing one woman on tv who claimed to have had just that. Apparently it scared the shit out of her and she immediately found religion in a big way. .

Wow. It's got to be true then!! You must immediately send a check to that particular televangelists ministry if you are to be spared from hell.

[L.O. 0]

I was found without respiration or a discernible heart beat when I was 16. I was given CPR and after my tongue was cleared and a few pumps were administered I started breathing again. I was in a cross country off-road motorcycle race. No big deal. I was just dead. I don't recall any lights or flame for that matter. I was also involved in a very bad accident at 26. The hospital chaplin called my parents and said "you should come over ASAP or your not going to get to say good-bye".

I do believe in something, but to even think that the written word can give you a clue as to the "big picture", is the very heart of arrogance. To think we understand anything completely, is crazy. I was dead at 16 (twice, once on the ground once in the chopper),

In my personal opinion, when your dead your dead,gone, out. People who claim to have had after life experiences may or may not be correct, I don't know. People want to believe that this life isn't all there is. Desperation can cloud even the most sane mind. facing mortality is everyones most desperate moment.

So believe what you will, what ever works best for you. As long as you are happy with that, more power to ya.

HPDBs, I hate those guys.
AFB, charter member.