We deserve to get our asses blown up

[funks 1]

Lets face it. We think we are badasses. We think we have the right to dictate our beliefs to the rest of the world and force them to adopt them or else. We police the world, we interject when we should not. We monitor the world and then act on any injustice that takes place on other soils.

China blows up a satellite of their own and we get all pissy about it.

http://www.cnn.com/2007/TECH/space/01/18/china.missile/index.html

"Under a space policy authorized by President Bush in August, the United States asserts a right to "freedom of action in space" and says it will "deter others from either impeding those rights or developing capabilities intended to do so."

We have these capabilities and have used them in the past. Yet, when another country demonstrates the same capabilities we feel the need to step up and bitch about it. They blew up their own fucking satellite for christs sake!!! Who the fuck are we to say that is wrong and that they must concede to our regulations? It's ok for us to have these capabilities, but no one else? What a crock of shit.

Our government is responsible for the threats we now must live with on a daily basis. Our government is responisble for all terrorist actions carried out against us citizens. Stay the fuck out of everyones business and perhaps we can live safer lives.

We are crooked cops, nothing more, nothing less.

The us government sucks. The us government is responsible for murdering it's own citizens.

[akarunway 1]

Quote

Lets face it. We think we are badasses. We think we have the right to dictate our beliefs to the rest of the world and force them to adopt them or else. We police the world, we interject when we should not. We monitor the world and then act on any injustice that takes place on other soils.

China blows up a satellite of their own and we get all pissy about it.

http://www.cnn.com/2007/TECH/space/01/18/china.missile/index.html

"Under a space policy authorized by President Bush in August, the United States asserts a right to "freedom of action in space" and says it will "deter others from either impeding those rights or developing capabilities intended to do so."

We have these capabilities and have used them in the past. Yet, when another country demonstrates the same capabilities we feel the need to step up and bitch about it. They blew up their own fucking satellite for christs sake!!! Who the fuck are we to say that is wrong and that they must concede to our regulations? It's ok for us to have these capabilities, but no one else? What a crock of shit.

Our government is responsible for the threats we now must live with on a daily basis. Our government is responisble for all terrorist actions carried out against us citizens. Stay the fuck out of everyones business and perhaps we can live safer lives.

We are crooked cops, nothing more, nothing less.

The us government sucks. The us government is responsible for murdering it's own citizens.

See the act of war thread

I hold it true, whate'er befall;
I feel it, when I sorrow most;
'Tis better to have loved and lost
Than never to have loved at all.

[mnealtx 0]

Quote

Our government is responsible for the threats we now must live with on a daily basis. Our government is responisble for all terrorist actions carried out against us citizens. Stay the fuck out of everyones business and perhaps we can live safer lives.

Somalia, the embassies in Africa, the USS Cole, the WTC attacks - yup, doing nothing was a GOOD thing, wasn't it?

Quote

The us government sucks. The us government is responsible for murdering it's own citizens.

Nice rant, but that's about it. I give it a 3.5

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[Butters 0]

Quote

Lets face it. We think we are badasses. We think we have the right to dictate our beliefs to the rest of the world and force them to adopt them or else. We police the world, we interject when we should not. We monitor the world and then act on any injustice that takes place on other soils.

China blows up a satellite of their own and we get all pissy about it.

http://www.cnn.com/2007/TECH/space/01/18/china.missile/index.html

"Under a space policy authorized by President Bush in August, the United States asserts a right to "freedom of action in space" and says it will "deter others from either impeding those rights or developing capabilities intended to do so."

We have these capabilities and have used them in the past. Yet, when another country demonstrates the same capabilities we feel the need to step up and bitch about it. They blew up their own fucking satellite for christs sake!!! Who the fuck are we to say that is wrong and that they must concede to our regulations? It's ok for us to have these capabilities, but no one else? What a crock of shit.

Our government is responsible for the threats we now must live with on a daily basis. Our government is responisble for all terrorist actions carried out against us citizens. Stay the fuck out of everyones business and perhaps we can live safer lives.

We are crooked cops, nothing more, nothing less.

The us government sucks. The us government is responsible for murdering it's own citizens.

And you are doing what about it? (There are many areas that our meddling is for the better and not for the worse. Have you ever though about moving more towards optimism than pessimism?)

"That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch

[funks 1]

Quote

Have you ever though about moving more towards optimism than pessimism

Hey this war stuff is great, we have only lost thousands of lives in the past couple of years instead of tens of thousands!!
Hows that? Is that what you mean?

[shropshire 0]

Nice post.


<>

I'd love to hear some of our mates on here justify this part (in particular).

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[pirana 0]

They are gonna rule the day eventually. It will come to pass in increments and over time, and probably without there being a recognizable watershed moment that everyone can point to and say "That is the event that moved China into world superpower #1 status." But it is going to happen eventually.

It may happen only as a matter of economic weight, simply because the world is becoming more like a game of Monopoly than a game of Chess, but I think it will happen.

The only way we could stop it (and not saying we should stop it) is if we intervened militarily, and I do not see that happening.

It occurs to me that the mid-term future, from a very high altitude perspective, is easy to see. The blips in the short-term are tough to predict, but usually of relatively minor significance. A regional conflict here, maybe a nuclear event there. Nothing that is going to seriously alter the juggernaut that is the momentum of world history. And the really long term way out there stuff is of course going to be less accurate. But mid-term, say the next 15 to 100 years, not too tough.

Kinda like a really big boat on the water. Very few individual waves matter, momentum precludes radical course changes, but no way to be sure what will happen way out there. But you can be pretty sure of the direction and where you are very likely to be over the next few boatlengths into the trip.

Finished spewing.

" . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

[Butters 0]

Quote

"we deserve to get our asses blown up"

and

Quote

"our government is responisble for all terrorist actions carried out against us citizens"

because we don't

Quote

"stay the fuck out of everyones business"

What about all the aid we provide to Africa that has saved hundred of thousands (if not millions) of lives, meddling in their business. You focus primarily on the negative while avoiding the positive in forming your opinions which makes you a pessimist.

"That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch

[shropshire 0]

But the difference is, people often ask for help but they will never ask to be invaded, policed or treated diffrently for performing the same actions as us.

The "Do as I say and not as I do policy" is arogant in the extreme.

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[Gawain 0]

Seeing as how the US does not currently have an ASAT weapon, I think it's appropriate to show a measure of concern. If you think we impose our view in the world, why do you go to Nepal and other Asian countries that China has invaded and occupied and see how they're faring.

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[funks 1]

Quote

What about all the aid we provide to Africa that has saved hundred of thousands (if not millions) of lives, meddling in their business. You focus primarily on the negative while avoiding the positive in forming your opinions which makes you a pessimist

Your scenario above is not meddling in their business. Telling a country what they can and can not do is meddling. Offering financial assistance is not.

There is a difference between being a savior and being a war monger.

[NCclimber 0]

I do hope you decide to become a regular in this forum.

[billvon 2,380]

> Seeing as how the US does not currently have an ASAT weapon,
>I think it's appropriate to show a measure of concern.

We successfully tested our ASAT weapon in 1985 and blew up a US satellite in LEO. It is reasonable for other countries to expect to be "allowed" to do the same.

[crwtom 0]

Quote

Somalia, the embassies in Africa, the USS Cole, the WTC attacks - yup, doing nothing was a GOOD thing, wasn't it?

so you consider the shooting of their own satellite as an attack on
the US and a prelude to further terrorist and war action of China?

Believe me - the real threat of China to the western world is not
military - it'll be the fact that they are on the rise to become the
hugest economy the world.

Cheers, T

*******************************************************************
Fear causes hesitation, and hesitation will cause your worst fears to come true

[shropshire 0]

Do we have a right to be concerned about the actions of other countries (even if they are similar actions as our own)? - Of course we do.
Do we have a right to display a Holier-than-thou attitude? - Nope

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[Butters 0]

Quote

Quote

What about all the aid we provide to Africa that has saved hundred of thousands (if not millions) of lives, meddling in their business. You focus primarily on the negative while avoiding the positive in forming your opinions which makes you a pessimist

Your scenario above is not meddling in their business. Telling a country what they can and can not do is meddling. Offering financial assistance is not.

There is a difference between being a savior and being a war monger.

The scenario I mentioned is meddling in their business, just ask the local warlords. I agree that we should limit the amount of meddling we do in other countries. I disagree that ...

Quote

"we deserve to get our asses blown up"

and

Quote

"our government is responisble for all terrorist actions carried out against us citizens"

"That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch

[Gawain 0]

Quote

> Seeing as how the US does not currently have an ASAT weapon,
>I think it's appropriate to show a measure of concern.

We successfully tested our ASAT weapon in 1985 and blew up a US satellite in LEO. It is reasonable for other countries to expect to be "allowed" to do the same.

If you do a little research however, you'll see that the Pegasus Missile program was abandoned shortly after that test.

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[funks 1]

Quote

I disagree that ...we deserve to get our asses blown up"

If another country moved their military forces into our country and / or forced their beliefs on us time and time again, what would we ultimately do? We would stand up for what we believe our own rights to be. There is a high probability that attacks against the threatening country would occur.

Our actions the past 20 years have now made this scenario a reality for us.

Quote

I disagree that our government is responisble for all terrorist actions carried out against us citizens"

[billvon 2,380]

>the Pegasus Missile program was abandoned shortly after that test.

Right. But we felt we had the right to test it, even though it created a bunch of orbital debris.

[Gawain 0]

Quote

Do we have a right to be concerned about the actions of other countries (even if they are similar actions as our own)? - Of course we do.
Do we have a right to display a Holier-than-thou attitude? - Nope

http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/asiapcf/01/19/china.missile.ap/index.html

We (the US) aren't the only ones protesting, Japan, Britain, and Australia are voicing the same opinion.

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[mnealtx 0]

Quote

Quote

Somalia, the embassies in Africa, the USS Cole, the WTC attacks - yup, doing nothing was a GOOD thing, wasn't it?

so you consider the shooting of their own satellite as an attack on
the US and a prelude to further terrorist and war action of China?

Believe me - the real threat of China to the western world is not
military - it'll be the fact that they are on the rise to become the
hugest economy the world.

Cheers, T

No - I was answering the body of his rant, not the incident that set it off. Otherwise, I would have rebutted the event.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[funks 1]

Quote

Quote

Do we have a right to be concerned about the actions of other countries (even if they are similar actions as our own)? - Of course we do.
Do we have a right to display a Holier-than-thou attitude? - Nope

http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/asiapcf/01/19/china.missile.ap/index.html

We (the US) aren't the only ones protesting, Japan, Britain, and Australia are voicing the same opinion.

"Britain, Japan and Australia joined the United States on Friday in voicing concern about the rising militarization of space after China successfully carried out a test of an anti-satellite weapon."

Would they have voiced concern if we had not? No way of ever knowing, but I think not.

Everyone wants to stand behind the bully, but when the bully is no where to be found all is generally peaceful.

[Gawain 0]

Quote

>the Pegasus Missile program was abandoned shortly after that test.

Right. But we felt we had the right to test it, even though it created a bunch of orbital debris.

I understand your point, however to put things in perspective, the only people putting stuff up in space at the time were largely the US and USSR. I didn't look for any data about the number of satellites are in orbit now vs 1980s, but I'm sure the difference is staggering.

I'm not disputing China's right to test it, I'm simply saying that the US is appropriately concerned. The fact that our program was abandoned pretty much sums up that our intentions in/about/use of space are not centric around offensive operations. China's intentions aren't as apparent.

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[Gawain 0]

Quote

Would they have voiced concern if we had not? No way of ever knowing, but I think not.

Everyone wants to stand behind the bully, but when the bully is no where to be found all is generally peaceful.

Britain had already complained about lack of consultation.

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[mnealtx 0]

Quote

Quote

Quote

Do we have a right to be concerned about the actions of other countries (even if they are similar actions as our own)? - Of course we do.
Do we have a right to display a Holier-than-thou attitude? - Nope

http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/asiapcf/01/19/china.missile.ap/index.html

We (the US) aren't the only ones protesting, Japan, Britain, and Australia are voicing the same opinion.

"Britain, Japan and Australia joined the United States on Friday in voicing concern about the rising militarization of space after China successfully carried out a test of an anti-satellite weapon."

Would they have voiced concern if we had not? No way of ever knowing, but I think not.

Everyone wants to stand behind the bully, but when the bully is no where to be found all is generally peaceful.

From the UK Times (emphasis mine):

Quote

The Foreign and Commonwealth Office said last night: “The UK raised this issue with the Chinese authorities on Wednesday. Our concern is the possible effects of debris in outer space caused by the break-up of the satellite.”

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706