Imigrunts...

[billvon 2,395]

>I do believe, we need to get control of our borders . . .

Definitely!

>and get a better 'fix' on who enters.

I'm not quite sure what that means. If it means letting them in through a central place, checking them for disease and criminal records, I'd agree. If it means "keep the undesireables out" I'd disagree. Remember, the people who founded the brewing industry in this country were undesireable immigrants; they were trying to push beer on a populace that considered alcohol evil - and those that DID drink, drank whiskey.

>The way it is now, anyone can cross into this country, assimilate and
> get lost in the crowd.

I think that is EXACTLY what we want! We want people to enter, get jobs, assimilate and "get lost" in america. That's how my family got here. Now we're scattered over seven states. The problem we're having now is that people are doing it illegally, which is what we have to work on.

>As we know, we have acquired a great number
>of criminals from across the border.

Right, I'd agree with a screening for, say, felons at the border - provided it could be done as people walked through a gate i.e. if you came up with some "sure, just submit an application with six forms of ID and a $60 fee and we'll get back to you in a year" that's as good as useless. Fortunately, with today's technology, you _can_ screen people that quickly.

>It's kinda' funny. You mentioned 'making it easier for those who
> want to work to come here'. The politicians, want to make it harder
> for them to enter 'legally'. Where's the 'happy medium'?

Well, there's no medium that will make everyone happy. But since we're a country that was founded by immigrants (who were, at first, as "illegal" as today's mexican illegal immigrants) I think we should err on the side of allowing people in.

[masterrig 1]

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>I do believe, we need to get control of our borders . . .

Definitely!

>and get a better 'fix' on who enters.

I'm not quite sure what that means. If it means letting them in through a central place, checking them for disease and criminal records, I'd agree. If it means "keep the undesireables out" I'd disagree. Remember, the people who founded the brewing industry in this country were undesireable immigrants; they were trying to push beer on a populace that considered alcohol evil - and those that DID drink, drank whiskey.

>The way it is now, anyone can cross into this country, assimilate and
> get lost in the crowd.

I think that is EXACTLY what we want! We want people to enter, get jobs, assimilate and "get lost" in america. That's how my family got here. Now we're scattered over seven states. The problem we're having now is that people are doing it illegally, which is what we have to work on.

>As we know, we have acquired a great number
>of criminals from across the border.

Right, I'd agree with a screening for, say, felons at the border - provided it could be done as people walked through a gate i.e. if you came up with some "sure, just submit an application with six forms of ID and a $60 fee and we'll get back to you in a year" that's as good as useless. Fortunately, with today's technology, you _can_ screen people that quickly.

>It's kinda' funny. You mentioned 'making it easier for those who
> want to work to come here'. The politicians, want to make it harder
> for them to enter 'legally'. Where's the 'happy medium'?

Well, there's no medium that will make everyone happy. But since we're a country that was founded by immigrants (who were, at first, as "illegal" as today's mexican illegal immigrants) I think we should err on the side of allowing people in.

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I think, you have some pretty good ideas.
By getting a 'fix' on those entering this country, I mean by, getting I.D., backgrounds, criminal checks and etc.
Too bad, you couldn't get withyour Congress man and share some of your ideas... I'm serious.
You know, I wonder, just how those folks like your relatives and ancestors, who come to this country legally feel about those who sneak into this country and just take, what they worked so hard for?


Chuck


Chuck

[wmw999 2,120]

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You know, I wonder, just how those folks like your relatives and ancestors, who come to this country legally feel about those who sneak into this country and just take, what they worked so hard for?

My hairdresser is Vietnamese. Apparently her sister has been on a list for 17 years. I think you could say she's following the system.

She has no sympathy whatsoever with the illegals. So that's one point of view. Personally, I think 17 years is an appalling length of time.

Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[masterrig 1]

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You know, I wonder, just how those folks like your relatives and ancestors, who come to this country legally feel about those who sneak into this country and just take, what they worked so hard for?

My hairdresser is Vietnamese. Apparently her sister has been on a list for 17 years. I think you could say she's following the system.

She has no sympathy whatsoever with the illegals. So that's one point of view. Personally, I think 17 years is an appalling length of time.

Wendy W.

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I would have to agree! That is, a bit of a stretch. The thing I really appreciate about the lady is... she is doing it legally!


Chuck

[billvon 2,395]

>By getting a 'fix' on those entering this country, I mean by, getting
>I.D., backgrounds, criminal checks and etc.

How about this:

We build several Ellis-Island-like facilities along the border. They have biometric scanners and basic medical facilities. Everyone who enters without a passport gets a basic medical check and a biometric scan. (fingerprint, retina.) Takes all of an hour or two. Goal is under eight hours no matter what - and it's free. So there's really no excuse for not using it.

We maintain a database of all known felons in the US and Mexico. The US one will be pretty complete; the Mexican one will be so-so, since Mexico isn't all that helpful when it comes to helping us stop criminals who want to leave. But at least we get some of the known mexican criminals and most of the US criminals.

Then we give them a paper ID card. It can be used in the US for tax purposes, since they will get taxed like anyone else - and we assume a moderately high tax bracket for anyone using it. Taxes go (among other things) to support the Ellis islands.

We pass a law saying all employers must furnish the ID card number (or a SS#) to the government when they submit their payroll tax information. This gets most of the employment stuff out of the way with the exception of day laborers.

When they leave, they can go to a US office in Tijuana (or wherever) and get their tax money back. If they don't go back, they lose the money, although the card lets them keep working.

If they do want to become naturalized, the ID card number lets us determine how long they've been working. If they get arrested for a serious crime, the biometric data lets us match them to the ID card, and they are denied naturalization/reentry.

[masterrig 1]

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>By getting a 'fix' on those entering this country, I mean by, getting
>I.D., backgrounds, criminal checks and etc.

How about this:

We build several Ellis-Island-like facilities along the border. They have biometric scanners and basic medical facilities. Everyone who enters without a passport gets a basic medical check and a biometric scan. (fingerprint, retina.) Takes all of an hour or two. Goal is under eight hours no matter what - and it's free. So there's really no excuse for not using it.

We maintain a database of all known felons in the US and Mexico. The US one will be pretty complete; the Mexican one will be so-so, since Mexico isn't all that helpful when it comes to helping us stop criminals who want to leave. But at least we get some of the known mexican criminals and most of the US criminals.

Then we give them a paper ID card. It can be used in the US for tax purposes, since they will get taxed like anyone else - and we assume a moderately high tax bracket for anyone using it. Taxes go (among other things) to support the Ellis islands.

We pass a law saying all employers must furnish the ID card number (or a SS#) to the government when they submit their payroll tax information. This gets most of the employment stuff out of the way with the exception of day laborers.

When they leave, they can go to a US office in Tijuana (or wherever) and get their tax money back. If they don't go back, they lose the money, although the card lets them keep working.

If they do want to become naturalized, the ID card number lets us determine how long they've been working. If they get arrested for a serious crime, the biometric data lets us match them to the ID card, and they are denied naturalization/reentry.

__________________________________

Now, somebody's thinking. You don't suppose, that idea is too simle for the politicians to grasp do you? Seriously. it sounds like a good idea. Rather than spend the money on huge fences along the border... build immigration offices. Keep the Border Patrol to make sure that everyone wanting to enter, passes through the offices. Then too, with your idea, maybe, more folks would consider going to an immigration office than fighting the desert.


Chuck

[Enrique 0]

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>As we know, we have acquired a great number
>of criminals from across the border.

Right, I'd agree with a screening for, say, felons at the border - provided it could be done as people walked through a gate

That goes in both directions. Especially with pedophiles and drug addicts. We get a lot of US individuals involved in child pornography/child abuse, and many of the drug addicts and mentally ill people that walk the streets in Tijuana are American.

Enrique

[Enrique 0]

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The way it is now, anyone can cross into this country, assimilate and get lost in the crowd.

Again, the same thing happens with Americans coming down to Baja. Given that nobody is asked for a passport upon entering Mexico, a lot of know American felons/criminals enter our Country. Although in much smaller scale, a good portion of our coastline is illegaly used for housing by Americans (just try hiking up the hill in La Bufadora and you will get your ass shot by two Americans that live up there... or they will let their dogs loose to chase you... seriously!)

Enrique

[masterrig 1]

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>As we know, we have acquired a great number
>of criminals from across the border.

Right, I'd agree with a screening for, say, felons at the border - provided it could be done as people walked through a gate

That goes in both directions. Especially with pedophiles and drug addicts. We get a lot of US individuals involved in child pornography/child abuse, and many of the drug addicts and mentally ill people that walk the streets in Tijuana are American.

Enrique

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Exactly! Why, would Mexico, want our perverts, addicts, criminals and the like. I damned sure, don't blame you for thinking that way. Maybe, we could work-out a trade! Seriously. We should trade even-up.


Chuck

[nathaniel 0]

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Exactly! Why, would Mexico, want our perverts, addicts, criminals and the like.

We should deport them to Australia, or if the Aussies wont take them then to the penal colonies in the Province of Georgia.

My advice is to do what your parents did; get a job, sir. The bums will always lose. Do you hear me, Lebowski?

[masterrig 1]

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Exactly! Why, would Mexico, want our perverts, addicts, criminals and the like.

We should deport them to Australia, or if the Aussies wont take them then to the penal colonies in the Province of Georgia.

____________________________

Why, Australia? Better yet... re-open Devils Island!!!


Chuck

[Amazon 7]

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Why, Australia? Better yet... re-open Devils Island!!!

Hell we have the perfect island to use..... acutally a few of them... they would make such perfect prisons....Attu...Kiska....or anyone of the Aleutian Islands..

[Andy9o8 0]

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As it happens, the majority of illegals are Hispanic.

Perhaps, but don't confuse that with "the majority of Hispanics are illegal", because that just ain't so.

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With fake papers, it is hard to tell.
Chuck

"Legal" Hispanics don't have fake papers, and it's unfair to paint them with a presumptive broad brush just because many illegals are also Hispanic.

Your take on this issue disturbs me a little. I think you need to be introspective a bit, and be honest with yourself about what's really bugging you about this.

I understand the concern about illegal immigrants. But I have less patience with the undertone - maybe not from you, but I detect it generally - that the latest wave of immigration, even that portion which is legal - is somehow less desirable because happens to be largely Hispanic. Unless all your recent ancestors are Native Americans who migrated here from Siberia 10,000 years ago, the only thing that separates legal Hispanic immigrants with your own ancestors is relative recency.

[masterrig 1]

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As it happens, the majority of illegals are Hispanic.

Perhaps, but don't confuse that with "the majority of Hispanics are illegal", because that just ain't so.

___________________________________

With fake papers, it is hard to tell.
Chuck

"Legal" Hispanics don't have fake papers, and it's unfair to paint them with a presumptive broad brush just because many illegals are also Hispanic.

Your take on this issue disturbs me a little. I think you need to be introspective a bit, and be honest with yourself about what's really bugging you about this.

I understand the concern about illegal immigrants. But I have less patience with the undertone - maybe not from you, but I detect it generally - that the latest wave of immigration, even that portion which is legal - is somehow less desirable because happens to be largely Hispanic. Unless all your recent ancestors are Native Americans who migrated here from Siberia 10,000 years ago, the only thing that separates legal Hispanic immigrants with your own ancestors is relative recency.

________________________________________

Nothing is 'bugging' me... I thought, I was just in a discussion on 'illegal immigration'.
With over 12,000,000 illegal Hispanics in this country you say that? I have nothing against Hispanics. I have had, over the years friends, who are Hispanic. I've been to their homes and they've been to mine. Surprisingly, many of them (either born here or naturalized) share my feelings. Playing the Native American card doesn't cut it. It is only the idea of being here illegally that I don't care for. I don't care if they are Martians! It just so happens, the majority of illegals are Hispanic.


Chuck

[masterrig 1]

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Why, Australia? Better yet... re-open Devils Island!!!

Hell we have the perfect island to use..... acutally a few of them... they would make such perfect prisons....Attu...Kiska....or anyone of the Aleutian Islands..

__________________________

Hee, hee!


Chuck

[likearock 1]

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most of the arguments made on behalf of illegal aliens don't hold water if you separate them from the arguments for all immigrants.

Apart from the statutory definition (and ramifications such as taxes), what makes an illegal immigrant different from a legal one? Is there any difference? Would the difference evaporate if we abolished artificial immigration restrictions?

Are you trying to make Lou Dobbs mad?

What's the difference where people live anyway? It's a global economy that's becoming more and more location agnostic every year. Whether they're in LA, Bangalore, or Vera Cruz, they'll all be competing for the same jobs in the years that come.

[billvon 2,395]

>What's the difference where people live anyway?

US workers make 10 times what the workers in China make. That's the biggest difference.

[Frenchy68 0]

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Come on, Chuck. You know and I know most of the arguments made on behalf of illegal aliens don't hold water if you separate them from the arguments for all immigrants.

It's not always that clear cut. I was an "illegal" for 7 years. I reckon during these 7 years, I may have contributed to society as productively as some "legal" immigrants have, and I'd venture at times more than some plain old corn fed nationals.

"For once you have tasted Absinthe you will walk the earth with your eyes turned towards the gutter, for there you have been and there you will long to return."

[likearock 1]

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>What's the difference where people live anyway?

US workers make 10 times what the workers in China make. That's the biggest difference.

But they're catching up!

[NCclimber 0]

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I understand the concern about illegal immigrants. But I have less patience with the undertone - maybe not from you, but I detect it generally - that the latest wave of immigration, even that portion which is legal - is somehow less desirable because happens to be largely Hispanic.

It's not a matter of who, but how many and the fact that "how many" has grown 1500% since 1970 (when the total number of illegals was 750,000). This huge influx of predominantly hispanic illegals has helped create numerous areas in this country where people speak no english, are completely ignorant of American culture and have no interest in assimilating.

I don't fault the illegals for trying to come into this country. From a risk/reward standpoint it's a no brainer. Our government has been enabling this situation for quite some time. Both parties have an interest in not cracking down. There's a net cost to this country by not remedying this situation. Hopefully, someone in Congress will stay focused in the actual problem, instead of catering to partisan interests.

[NCclimber 0]

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Come on, Chuck. You know and I know most of the arguments made on behalf of illegal aliens don't hold water if you separate them from the arguments for all immigrants.

It's not always that clear cut. I was an "illegal" for 7 years. I reckon during these 7 years, I may have contributed to society as productively as some "legal" immigrants have, and I'd venture at times more than some plain old corn fed nationals.

Are you representative of the average illegal?

[Frenchy68 0]

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Are you representative of the average illegal?

It depends what your definition is. I know of many illegals I reckon would not fit your definition.
I think people would be surprised what the number of illegals coming from Western Europe, Canada, Australia, NZ, etc... is.

"For once you have tasted Absinthe you will walk the earth with your eyes turned towards the gutter, for there you have been and there you will long to return."

[kallend 1,623]

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Are you representative of the average illegal?

It depends what your definition is. I know of many illegals I reckon would not fit your definition.
I think people would be surprised what the number of illegals coming from Western Europe, Canada, Australia, NZ, etc... is.

They don't count.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[shropshire 0]

wrong colour?

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[NCclimber 0]

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Are you representative of the average illegal?

It depends what your definition is. I know of many illegals I reckon would not fit your definition.
I think people would be surprised what the number of illegals coming from Western Europe, Canada, Australia, NZ, etc... is.

It sounds like you're basically talking about white people. They make up something like 6% of the total.

More than four out of five (81%) illegal aliens are hispanic. Fifty-seven percent of all illegals are Mexican.

I'd say it's a pretty safe bet to say the average illegal is an uneducated, hispanic male, who doesn't speak English above a rudimentary level.