peak oil= no skydiving

[skinnyflyer 0]

hi
sorry to bring bad news but it seems to me that as world oil production will soon be peak and begin its inevitable decline that sports such as skydiving will quickly be priced out of existance, except maybe for the ultra rich. if you're not familiar with peak oil check these out;

www.peakoil.com
www.peakoil.net
www.lifeafterthecrash.net (slighty more pessimistic)

as someone just entering this wonderful sport i find this information very depressing.

if you disagree please share, or if you operate a dz at what oil price will you be able to continue operating?

i'm so sorry

"Death is more universal than life; everyone dies but not everyone lives."
A. Sachs

[NewGuy2005 52]

I'm now taking bets on how long it takes this to get moved to speaker's corner.

[WeakMindedFool 0]

If Oil gets to the point where it's too expensive to skydive in the US...a lack of skydiving will be the least of your worries. There is no industry or product that petroleum doesn't touch directly of indirectly. We are deep into a single point failure system in the industrialized world and the spice will stop flowing soon. I'm more worried about food then skydiving.

Faith in a holy cause is to a considerable extent a substitute for lost faith in ourselves.
-Eric Hoffer -
Check out these Videos

[wrespess 0]

This has got to be the most pessimistic thread i've read in a long time. I don't know about you guys, but i'm more concerned with jumping this weekend than the world's oil supply.

I guess there's going to be no more air travel either according to you and i'm going to take a horse and buggy to work soon.

[Chris-Ottawa 0]

If you're really concerned, I suggest talking to your local government. They control the oil anyways.

By the way, how's the war doing? I hear there "may" be oil over there that the US "may" want to get their hands on. Not that the US cares about the oil though....Right? Right guys? Hahah, I feel for all the families that are losing mothers, fathers, sons, and daughters for the oil that you and I graciously use at will.

Check this out...the oil reserves by country in BILLIONS of barrels...

http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0872964.html

I agree though, we are using way too much oil and yes it will run out. But none of those sites say how long right? The US has BILLIONS of gallons of oil in reserve. If the oil just stopped coming from the ground, the US could probably supply the US with oil for a few years. Plus Canada has the oil sands in Alberta, lots of oil in there to be had. I'm pretty sure it's not an immediate problem, but it is a problem.

Personally, I don't worry about these things. I do my part to conserve and if we run out one day...well, that's gonna be a shitty day if we haven't figured out hydrogen, solar, or other renewable means. You and I can do nothing about the prices, how much oil is available, how much the govt says is available etc, all we can do is conserve and I think the governmets are being useless when it comes to promoting alternative means of fuel. They make too much money from it. Period.

Check out this interesting link...proves my point, and no one really knows the truth. Was a 200mpg Carburetor made in the 1930's and the oil companies and government canned it because of the effects it would have on the industry????

Think about it...

http://www.google.ca/search?hs=bei&hl=en&safe=off&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla%3Aen-US%3Aofficial&q=%22Charles+N.+Pogue%22+carburetor&btnG=Search&meta=

Chris

"When once you have tasted flight..."

[simplyputsi 0]

Invest in helium now!!!!

Skymama's #2 stalker -

[AdD 1]

just need a big catapult on top of el cap, airplanes are too noisy anyway

Life is ez
On the dz
Every jumper's dream
3 rigs and an airstream

[AndyMan 7]

Turbines run just fine on bio-diesel. The PT-6 used on most jump planes will literally run on practically any kind of fuel if they have to.

It may make things more expensive, or it may not. Who knows?

_Am

__

You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead.

[kelpdiver 2]

Quote

hi
sorry to bring bad news but it seems to me that as world oil production will soon be peak and begin its inevitable decline that sports such as skydiving will quickly be priced out of existance, except maybe for the ultra rich. if you're not familiar with peak oil check these out;
...
as someone just entering this wonderful sport i find this information very depressing.

More a problem for your children, or perhaps your grandchildren if the optimists are the right ones.

And there are places we can go to. There's BASE, there are also a few physical spans tall enough to come close to sport skydiving. We could make a balloon station with some means of getting up to it. I don't know how to make it practical, but hanggliders (and I'd expect paragliders) can ride thermals up to 10k and beyond. Figure out how to ditch the craft to skydive and retrieve it afterwards and there's another method.

Wouldn't be able to bang out 10 jumps in a day, but it would be something.

[MotherGoose 0]

Thanks for shitting in my cornflakes pal . . .

Screw this, I'm taking Friday off to jump my ass off!!

PS... the sky is falling and the apocalypse is upon us . . . blah...blah...blah... drink and jump, life's short...enjoy it.

You think you understand the situation, but what you don't understand, is that the situation just changed.

[bodypilot1 0]

And Lodi will still have $13 dollar jump tickets......




Be safe
Ed

www.WestCoastWingsuits.com
www.PrecisionSkydiving.com

[jose 0]

Quote

If you're really concerned, I suggest talking to your local government. They control the oil anyways.

By the way, how's the war doing? I hear there "may" be oil over there that the US "may" want to get their hands on. Not that the US cares about the oil though....Right? Right guys? Hahah, I feel for all the families that are losing mothers, fathers, sons, and daughters for the oil that you and I graciously use at will.

Ya know, I just deleted a bunch of stuff I wrote to you, and it had a ton of bad words focused at you. But, now that I have thought a little clearer, and realized that it would have just been deleted by a mod, I can sucessfully tell you how pissed off I was and have you understand that. Truly, I am still pissed, and what you have written above is in amazing poor taste towards millions of people, and does nothing but show how damn judgemental and insensitive as a Canadian you are. In my travels at many DZ's, 4 of them in Canada, I haven't found any other nationality of people that are so unfairly, unjustly, insensitivly and uninformed as those like yourself. I don't understand why that is, but it sad. I understand Canadian pride, but sometimes I wonder if it comes at a price of egotistical seperatism.

[Froggy 0]

Quote

In my travels at many DZ's, 4 of them in Canada, I haven't found any other nationality of people that are so unfairly, unjustly, insensitivly and uninformed as those like yourself.

You know, believe me, being a Canadian myself (and a native Russian), I have a lot of not-so-nice words to say about Americans. But I won't, simply because I understand that there are at least as many good people as those I personally don't like in pretty much any country and nationality, and such gross generalization doesn't do anything, other than showing others something about yourself that you probably don't want to show... Just cut off that crap, will ya?

--------------
We were not born to fly. And all we can do is to try not to fall...

[Trae 1]

in reply to "hi
sorry to bring bad news but it seems to me that as world oil production will soon be peak and begin its inevitable decline that sports such as skydiving will quickly be priced out of existance, except maybe for the ultra rich. if you're not familiar with peak oil check these out;
..............................................................

this from a recent SC 'oil running out" thread
"Nope.
It's all smoke and mirrors to keep the price up.
AND we've been lied to as to the nature of oil formation.
It's not a finite "fossil fuel" but a sustainable material produced deep in the magma of the earth.

http://www.rense.com/general63/staline.htm "

.................................................


If this is true the current oil crisis could last as long as the earth. Oil comes from dead dinosaurs....yeah right.

[pilatus_p 0]

Sure I will get a flame for this, but here goes anyway ...

I work for an oil major. The field I work for (one of hundreds in the north sea) has got 15 years left in it, producing circa 60,000 barrels a day. My company is continually developing new prospects as drilling technologies improve and the boys doing the seismic analysis work are alwasy indentifying new reserves.

There are multi-billion barrel reserves that we have in global fields such as in Angola, and you will see that more and more fields are being developed as we speak.

Even the 'dying' North Sea continues to attract new companies and investment, and the city of Aberdeen (The UK 'oil capital') is absolutely teeming with oil personnel. My own company is building a multi-million pound new office to accommodate us ... which would be an odd thing to do if we were expecting to go out of business any time soon. A new development, Buzzard, of 500 million barrels oil will be produced at 180,000 barrels (plateau) a day in 2007, giving about 15 years worth of oil and gas when you factor in peak production, plateau and tail-off.

Should we be producing it and burning it in the light of global warming? I don't know - and its something my conscience plays with on a daily basis, though my company has built a power station which burns hydrogen, extrtacted from natural gas. The CO2 produced as a by product is re-injected into an old oil field, where it will be locked away for eternity. When running, it will be operated at a financial loss, but it is the development of the new techinology and its zero-CO2 emissions that is the aim.

Yes Gas Turbines can run on pretty much anything - oour GT supplier tells me you could atomise cooking oil and run a GT with few problems! We run ours (used for electricity offshore) on natural gas and/or diesel, but they can run on hydrogen too. Plenty of natural gas in the world, from both geological and other resources, and so, plenty of hydrogen. Yes it will cost a bomb during its development phase, but it won't pollute if the separated CO2 is correctly handled. Thats the choice and the dilemma - you pay a financial cost or an environmental one.

Yes oil is running out, and no, geological activity is not sufficient to replace reserves. It takes several millennia to convert the decaying remains of plants and animals, via heat and pressure, to kerogen and finally to oil, and we have been sucking it out faster than nature can make it unfortunately.

Agreed, lets move this to speakers corner before it becomes a trolling frenzy

Ross

http://www.teamtechnology.co.uk/troll.htm

[pilatus_p 0]

Both Jose and Chris have made trollish comments to each other.

This may not be their overall intention, but please don't get pulled into sidetrack arguments that have nothing to do with the thread, especially ones that may be designed to cause flaming and deliberate thread disruption.

Trolls observe, join, befriend, disrupt and ultimately destroy message boards and then move onto the next - please dont send the message that DZ.com is an easy target by getting pulled into other people's fights.

The old USENET motto applies - "Do not feed the trolls".

Ross

http://www.teamtechnology.co.uk/troll.htm

[Chris-Ottawa 0]

Quote

Ya know, I just deleted a bunch of stuff I wrote to you, and it had a ton of bad words focused at you. But, now that I have thought a little clearer, and realized that it would have just been deleted by a mod, I can sucessfully tell you how pissed off I was and have you understand that. Truly, I am still pissed, and what you have written above is in amazing poor taste towards millions of people, and does nothing but show how damn judgemental and insensitive as a Canadian you are. In my travels at many DZ's, 4 of them in Canada, I haven't found any other nationality of people that are so unfairly, unjustly, insensitivly and uninformed as those like yourself. I don't understand why that is, but it sad. I understand Canadian pride, but sometimes I wonder if it comes at a price of egotistical seperatism.

Hmm, I'm not sure you understand what I posted. im not apologizing for anything because it's all true. I didn't slam any Americans, I didn't slam any war heroes, and I didn't slam any individuals, it's not their fault. It's you trusty government. And if you don't think the government has the oil companies in their right hand pocket...boy, have you got some things to learn...

And tell me, you think the war is justified and has nothing to do with the oil they have over there? Think about it.

Feel free to PM me your bad words, I'll be more than happy to listen. I have no reason to be upset with you, you just didn't understand the point of my post.

Chris

"When once you have tasted flight..."

[akarunway 1]

Quote

I'm now taking bets on how long it takes this to get moved to speaker's corner.

LOL. What he/she said

I hold it true, whate'er befall;
I feel it, when I sorrow most;
'Tis better to have loved and lost
Than never to have loved at all.

[akarunway 1]

Quote

If Oil gets to the point where it's too expensive to skydive in the US...a lack of skydiving will be the least of your worries. There is no industry or product that petroleum doesn't touch directly of indirectly. We are deep into a single point failure system in the industrialized world and the spice will stop flowing soon. I'm more worried about food then skydiving.

Raman noodles dude Me prefer a big fat fukin steak myself. Tired of buying food ,steak and cigs to broke skydivers

I hold it true, whate'er befall;
I feel it, when I sorrow most;
'Tis better to have loved and lost
Than never to have loved at all.

[pilatus_p 0]

Quote

Invest in helium now!!!!

Dropships of the future?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/769642.stm

http://www.teamtechnology.co.uk/troll.htm

[rhys 0]

Quote

Dropships of the future?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/.../sci/tech/769642.stm

Cool!

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

[Lucky... 0]

Quote

This has got to be the most pessimistic thread i've read in a long time. I don't know about you guys, but i'm more concerned with jumping this weekend than the world's oil supply.

I guess there's going to be no more air travel either according to you and i'm going to take a horse and buggy to work soon.

Yes, depressing ideas should be washed from out minds and think only happy thoughts.

It's utopian to think we can keep burning like 9 million gallons per day, and that's just us. I know crude is found in the shale and the shale may have its own structure absent the crude, but I can't believe that the earth's shifting has nothing to do with the extracation of crude from it.

[pilatus_p 0]

Hi Lucky

I thought the same, so I sat down and had a chat with one of our petroleum geologists at work. His answer was that yes, more crude is being made, but it is being done so on 'geological time'. Companies such as Shell, BP, Total, Exxon etc invest one heck of a lot of cash in exploration budgets, and as you are probably aware, most 'oil rich' areas of the world are divided into 'blocks'. Oil companies are allowed to take seismic readings from these blocks to scan for the presence of oil or gas bearing sands and if they think there is some there, can bid for that block.

To give you an idea, the Buzzard field I mentioned above is classified as a Jurassic field - as in thats the time period the reservoir formed. The dead animals / plants are cooked and squashed and carbonised after several thousand millennia of earth has formed over them (for example our deepest well is 7 kilometres under the sea), and then the produced oil must migrate from the source rock to a place where it may be extracted, and this ease of extraction is a major driver for whether or not the oil ever sees the surface. If its too hard to get (read: costs too much) then it will stay in the earth. This is an area of development as drilling companies are developing new techniques of accessing the reserves all the time.

So really we know roughly where oil SHOULD be and those areas are mapped. Sometimes surprises spring up, but as it takes us 20 years to empty a reservoir that started forming when T-rex was a kid, the rate of removal far outstrips replacement.

A good comparison would be to imagine a field of wheat that takes 1000 years to grow, but a few minutes to harvest one bit of it. We divide up that field and eat all the wheat in a year, but the new stuff is only just starting to bud, and wont be done for another 999 years.

So yes you are right, new accumulations are forming, but not fast enough to currently be of any use to us.

But perhaps thats a good thing!

If it makes anyone feel better, hydrogen from natural gas is a genuinely workable alternative energy solution and is being invested in heavily by forward thinking companies. Others are still very profit focused and have chosen to ignore it, but the prospect of zero-carbon power, by virtue of re-injecting the CO2 into empty oil reservoirs, is a very appealing future opportunity. A drawback is that enrgy is required to separate the hydrogen from the methane - but solar technology is developing quickly, as are subsea, tidal current driven turbines and offshore wind turbines. One company claims that submerging fleets of these tidal turbines (each giving one megawatt) around the coast of Britian would provide all the power we need, and a test of them is due to be completed in 2008. Tidal currents are, unlike the wind, always there, and ironically some of the ocean currents are caused by melting ice floes in the polar caps. The turbines can harness the side effects of using oil for power, and turn them into power. Thats pretty cool ....

Where there are natural gas sources such as ageing oil fields (or even new ones) and a nearby reservoir that can be injected into, such a power station can be built. And the UK has the first of its type to be tried. Want to see more of this happen? Start badgering companies like Shell and Exxon who don't see the project as 'immediately profitable' enough .. Shareholders unite!

Of course, nuclear is zero-carbon too ...

Now all we need to do is figure out transport ... how about hydrogen fuelled turbine cars? Hydrocarbon versions have been tried. They have crap acceleration. Hydrogen ones were tried too - dunno why they were crap but they were. Here's a good, intelligent article - http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m3165/is_3_39/ai_99101933
Cheers for reading

Ross

http://www.teamtechnology.co.uk/troll.htm

[billvon 2,879]

>If it makes anyone feel better, hydrogen from natural gas is a genuinely
>workable alternative energy solution and is being invested in heavily by
>forward thinking companies.

This doesn't make sense to me. If we have the natural gas - why not just use the natural gas? Cars will run on it (the Honda GX) it's safer to transport and store, it can be made cheaply (biogas) and we have huge reserves of it while we're getting ready to make it. We already have the distribution network. Heck, a great many people have natural gas lines going to their _houses!_

And if we make it from biological waste (i.e. biogas from landfills and digesters) it's zero carbon as well.

>Now all we need to do is figure out transport ... how about hydrogen
>fuelled turbine cars?

How about methane fueled internal combustion cars for now (which we have) then methane separator/fuel cell cars in the future?

[jose 0]

Chris,

You wrote:

Quote

By the way, how's the war doing? I hear there "may" be oil over there that the US "may" want to get their hands on. Not that the US cares about the oil though....Right? Right guys? Hahah, I feel for all the families that are losing mothers, fathers, sons, and daughters for the oil that you and I graciously use at will.

Now, you tell me how I'm supposed to take it when you LAUGH right before you say you "feel" for all the families?

Yeah, what you said was all true, eh? I didn't know you were a personal advisor to the President of the United States? You know for a FACT that oil was his reason for the war in Iraq? I'm not saying that it wasn't a strategic consideration, but one of MANY I am sure... Do I know any more than you? Hell no, but at the same time, I'm not going to come across as such a simpleton and point my finger and laugh....... What you said was rude....I don't give a shit how you try to defend it......it_was_rude.