Richards 0
billvon 2,396
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Both of you cut it out.
>I am sure you have other fights to pick on this site so I will drop it . .
>I will be thrilled to ignore you . . .
Be thrilled, then. Two people saying "I'm not answering you any more" over and over again is a remarkably silly waste of bandwidth, even here.
>I am sure you have other fights to pick on this site so I will drop it . .
>I will be thrilled to ignore you . . .
Be thrilled, then. Two people saying "I'm not answering you any more" over and over again is a remarkably silly waste of bandwidth, even here.
Richards 0
Sorry chief.
Just venting.
Richards
Just venting.
Richards
My biggest handicap is that sometimes the hole in the front of my head operates a tad bit faster than the grey matter contained within.
cam 0
well, depends what 'openly watching' means.. I'd feel uncomfortable with a stranger staring intently/persistently at me *whatever* I was doing. If it was just the normal kind of looking around, maybe eye contact for half a second and a small smile/friendly expression .. then no, it wouldn't bother me at all.
actually, I had a guy sitting next to me on a plane when my son was 3 weeks old, and was nervous about it (in addition to flying on a 10 hour flight with a new baby, hell in addition to going out alone with him), but not so much about the breastfeeding per se. more because I thought he would be feeling hostile to having a baby next to him, tho it did mean that I more of an effort to keep things hidden under a light wrap over my shoulder (and this in itself adds a bit to the stress of feeding for a new mother - and no doubt there are moments when the baby is getting latched or the wrap slips a bit, when some skin is probably visible). I guess I was glad that he didn't seem to be craning his head around to look. but I didn't expect him to keep his eyes pointed the other way - given business class seats he could carry on doing what he was doing in a normal way, which is exactly what he did, and that was fine.
so in short, if you just carry on as normal I would think you will not offend anyone [:)
actually, I had a guy sitting next to me on a plane when my son was 3 weeks old, and was nervous about it (in addition to flying on a 10 hour flight with a new baby, hell in addition to going out alone with him), but not so much about the breastfeeding per se. more because I thought he would be feeling hostile to having a baby next to him, tho it did mean that I more of an effort to keep things hidden under a light wrap over my shoulder (and this in itself adds a bit to the stress of feeding for a new mother - and no doubt there are moments when the baby is getting latched or the wrap slips a bit, when some skin is probably visible). I guess I was glad that he didn't seem to be craning his head around to look. but I didn't expect him to keep his eyes pointed the other way - given business class seats he could carry on doing what he was doing in a normal way, which is exactly what he did, and that was fine.
so in short, if you just carry on as normal I would think you will not offend anyone [:)
I started to reply to your post but decided Nightingale did a pretty thorough job with hers.
I think when breastfeeding becomes the norm, rather than the exception - and once you've seen more than a couple of women doing it, you won't notice anymore.
Even weirder? Do you know how many women haven't seen another woman breastfeeding? A lot more than you might think.
I know, I know, you're a man - you can't help but sexualize breasts.
But at some point you have to exercise control rather than ask women with infants to stay hidden away. After all, infants need to feed every 2-3 hours. That's a major problem if we're expected to a. stay home to feed, b. drop everything and find a private place or c. reduce our 'outings' to not more than an hour or so at a time.
I say, go ahead an peek if you must, just try to be discreet about it.
Action expresses priority. - Mahatma Ghandi
I think when breastfeeding becomes the norm, rather than the exception - and once you've seen more than a couple of women doing it, you won't notice anymore.
Even weirder? Do you know how many women haven't seen another woman breastfeeding? A lot more than you might think.
I know, I know, you're a man - you can't help but sexualize breasts.
But at some point you have to exercise control rather than ask women with infants to stay hidden away. After all, infants need to feed every 2-3 hours. That's a major problem if we're expected to a. stay home to feed, b. drop everything and find a private place or c. reduce our 'outings' to not more than an hour or so at a time. I say, go ahead an peek if you must, just try to be discreet about it.
Action expresses priority. - Mahatma Ghandi
SkyDekker 1,121
I agree with the information you posted Nightingale, but I have always struggled with one question. I have personally witnessed a 12 year old coming to the room of his hospitalized mother for his daily breast feeding.
At what age does breast feeding a child become "not-so-normal"? To me a 4 or 5 year old breast feeding is really no big deal, if that is what the family thinks is best for the child. But a 9 year old? 10? When does it become "odd"?
At what age does breast feeding a child become "not-so-normal"? To me a 4 or 5 year old breast feeding is really no big deal, if that is what the family thinks is best for the child. But a 9 year old? 10? When does it become "odd"?
mailin 0
I actually agree there is an age when it becomes 'odd'.
I saw an episode of the TV show "judging amy" once where this very issue was brought up. For those not familiar with the show its about a woman (amy) who is a family court judge in the state of CT.
This particular episode focused around a woman being reprimanded for BF her 5 year old in public. The woman was very firm in her belief that a child would self wean when ready. In reality she was intimadating the child into continuing - constantly telling him and her husband how healthy it was.
The judge drew the line when she asked the young boy if his friends made fun of him for it. When he said he didn't like feeling different than the other kids (even though he really liked his 'mama milk' and wouldn't drink anything else), the judge agreed it was time to stop.
The judge ordered family counseling and told the woman to stop breastfeeding in public and to seriously consider stopping all together due to societal influence.
In reality, I will only be giving my daughter breastmilk until she is 12 months developmentally (15 months old). This is not due to societal pressure, but rather that I find it is too time consuming (pumping 6 times a day). Many woman who actual feed at the breast find it easy to continue past that time, and I support that. I personally would not feel comfortable BF a child after 2 years of age due to the attitudes expressed by the general population (and in this thread), which is sad![[:/]](/uploads/emoticons/dry.png "[:/]")
Jen
I saw an episode of the TV show "judging amy" once where this very issue was brought up. For those not familiar with the show its about a woman (amy) who is a family court judge in the state of CT.
This particular episode focused around a woman being reprimanded for BF her 5 year old in public. The woman was very firm in her belief that a child would self wean when ready. In reality she was intimadating the child into continuing - constantly telling him and her husband how healthy it was.
The judge drew the line when she asked the young boy if his friends made fun of him for it. When he said he didn't like feeling different than the other kids (even though he really liked his 'mama milk' and wouldn't drink anything else), the judge agreed it was time to stop.
The judge ordered family counseling and told the woman to stop breastfeeding in public and to seriously consider stopping all together due to societal influence.
In reality, I will only be giving my daughter breastmilk until she is 12 months developmentally (15 months old). This is not due to societal pressure, but rather that I find it is too time consuming (pumping 6 times a day). Many woman who actual feed at the breast find it easy to continue past that time, and I support that. I personally would not feel comfortable BF a child after 2 years of age due to the attitudes expressed by the general population (and in this thread), which is sad
Jen
Arianna Frances
QuoteI agree with the information you posted Nightingale, but I have always struggled with one question. I have personally witnessed a 12 year old coming to the room of his hospitalized mother for his daily breast feeding.
At what age does breast feeding a child become "not-so-normal"? To me a 4 or 5 year old breast feeding is really no big deal, if that is what the family thinks is best for the child. But a 9 year old? 10? When does it become "odd"?
Based on the number of Booby threads in Bonfire, apparently never.
-
Skyrad 0
QuoteI say no , but if there is no ability to go private I think it should be hidden under blankets or something...
Get em oot foor de boyz!
When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca
Lucius Annaeus Seneca
jraf 0
I received a reply from Delta today:
Thank you for contacting us through delta.com. We are sorry for the delay in responding to your message.
Delta Air Lines is disappointed to hear about the removal of the passenger onboard Freedom Airlines Flight 6160. As you may know, they are one of our Delta Connection partners.
Delta supports a mother's right to breastfeed her baby onboard our aircraft. Please let me assure you that we are working with Freedom Airlines on their investigation of this matter. Following the results of this internal investigation, Delta will work with Freedom (a subsidiary Mesa Air Group) to ensure that their procedures mirror Delta's service standards.
Again, thank you for contacting us. We will always welcome the opportunity to be of service.
We appreciate your interest in Delta Air Lines.
Sincerely,
Kevin Aston
Online Customer Support Desk
http://www.delta.com
The entire point of my post in the Womans forum was to actually encourage people to write to Delta about the ridicule. I am therefore disappointed that it was locked.
Thank you for contacting us through delta.com. We are sorry for the delay in responding to your message.
Delta Air Lines is disappointed to hear about the removal of the passenger onboard Freedom Airlines Flight 6160. As you may know, they are one of our Delta Connection partners.
Delta supports a mother's right to breastfeed her baby onboard our aircraft. Please let me assure you that we are working with Freedom Airlines on their investigation of this matter. Following the results of this internal investigation, Delta will work with Freedom (a subsidiary Mesa Air Group) to ensure that their procedures mirror Delta's service standards.
Again, thank you for contacting us. We will always welcome the opportunity to be of service.
We appreciate your interest in Delta Air Lines.
Sincerely,
Kevin Aston
Online Customer Support Desk
http://www.delta.com
The entire point of my post in the Womans forum was to actually encourage people to write to Delta about the ridicule. I am therefore disappointed that it was locked.
jraf
Me Jungleman! Me have large Babalui.
Muff #3275
Me Jungleman! Me have large Babalui.
Muff #3275
QuoteI think many men are uncomfortable with women breast feeding in public because we feel it's an act we shouldn't be watching; therefore, we find ourselves struggling to look at anything else until mother and baby are through. We feel that if we're somehow caught looking at the woman, for even just a moment, we'll be viewed as perverts; therefore, the situation makes us uncomfortable.
I feel uncomfortable as to where to look when a woman whips up her shirt and starts nursing. I turn red and try to read the contacts on my cell phone or check my schedule or something so it doesn't look like I'm 'looking', so I don't think it's necessarily a male attitude, but quite possibly moreso for men than women. I didn't care for wandering eyes all over me when nursing, so I guess I try to give another mom the same space...but it's tough when they are right next to you or a few feet in front of you.
-I wouldn't say anything, and definitely wouldn't try to tell the woman that she couldn't nurse that way; I just personally have to look at something else to hide my red face. It's pretty embarrassing.
(Now to those of you saying 'But girls flash at the DZ and you wouldn't have a problem with that' -yeah, actually the same thing happens. I turn red when anything is 'exposed' anywhere. It's just the way I am...I can't tell my cheeks NOT to blush excessively. I blush when I get undressed for the shower. It's stupid but it's me. ) This part of your post made me think of another consideration, that thus far I haven't seen brought into the mix here...
My husband would have been pissed if another man was 'trying' to look at me if the blanket slipped off while I was nursing. I was doing my best to be discreet, as I feel that no stranger has a right to 'check me out'. If it's on my body and it's under clothing, then I am not choosing to show that to any Tom, Dick or Harry walking around. It's my body and I show it to whom I choose.
I had my husband sit in front of me more times than one at a table while I was arranging the blanky because I wanted a little more 'shelter' from peoples' curious eyes.
In that case, Douva, I think it would be rude to try to peer around my husband and around the blanket to try to get a view, just as rude as it would be to try to look up a woman's skirt.
I was nursing in public, but not allowing my body to be 'displayed' in public. That was my choice, and I think it would have been creepy if someone had walked around the other side or behind me or something to try to sneak in a peek when I was very blatantly trying to keep myself and my baby out of sight.
Just a glance over at a nursing mother I don't think is going to bother the majority of nursing moms... I think gawking is impolite whether it's a mom nursing a baby, or a cute barista serving a latte', or whatever.
(There are a lot of 'I think' statements throughout my post, because it's all just my opinion, nothing more.)
~Jaye
Do not believe that possibly you can escape the reward of your action.
Do not believe that possibly you can escape the reward of your action.
OK so far so good...would you guys care to address this?
At a place of business.
She:
Vested interest in the daily operation of the business.
Meeting and processing customers.
Teaching students/trainees of the business.
Breast feeding a 3 year-old (who "demands" it) while in the midst of all the above activities. Actually seen to:
1. Start, stop, restart, stop and restart training for students.
2. Greet customers with the kid hanging on.
3. Tell a customer to "Hang on. I'll get to you when I'm finished."
4. Popping it out openly, with no attempt at covering anywhere in the place of business at anytime the kid "demands" it.
Am I way off-base being disgusted about this?
My thoughts:
No public breast-feeding in a place of business.
Full attention to customers.
Full and undivided attention to trainees.
WTF? 3-yrs old?
I should probably just STFU and mind my own business except that the behavior adversely affects the business and I care about the owner being successful.
At a place of business.
She:
Vested interest in the daily operation of the business.
Meeting and processing customers.
Teaching students/trainees of the business.
Breast feeding a 3 year-old (who "demands" it) while in the midst of all the above activities. Actually seen to:
1. Start, stop, restart, stop and restart training for students.
2. Greet customers with the kid hanging on.
3. Tell a customer to "Hang on. I'll get to you when I'm finished."
4. Popping it out openly, with no attempt at covering anywhere in the place of business at anytime the kid "demands" it.
Am I way off-base being disgusted about this?
My thoughts:
No public breast-feeding in a place of business.
Full attention to customers.
Full and undivided attention to trainees.
WTF? 3-yrs old?
I should probably just STFU and mind my own business except that the behavior adversely affects the business and I care about the owner being successful.
My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239
tigra 0
Actually, the issue isn't public breastfeeding, its what is and is not appropriate for the workplace. Bringing your toddler to work with you and neglecting your job while caring for said toddler isn't what I would call "employee of the month" behavior. It doesn't matter if she's breastfeeding, changing diapers*, finding activities to occupy the kid or having to discipline him because he's acting out. If it happens once because she's in a bind and can't get a sitter, that's one thing. If it occurs on a regular basis, that's something else entirely.
If this is behavior the owner knows about and tolerates (or if she IS the owner) and you don't have a significant investment in this business, then you probably should STFU and MYOB.
*personally, I find people changing diapers in public much more offensive than breastfeeding, but I also understand there are times when that's the best or only option.
If this is behavior the owner knows about and tolerates (or if she IS the owner) and you don't have a significant investment in this business, then you probably should STFU and MYOB.
*personally, I find people changing diapers in public much more offensive than breastfeeding, but I also understand there are times when that's the best or only option.
Quote...
If this is behavior the owner knows about and tolerates (or if she IS the owner) and you don't have a significant investment in this business, then you probably should STFU and MYOB.
Yeah, deep down I really know that. My only "investment" is emotional in that I respect the owner and wish him to succeed. Life's a bitch and then you die.
My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239
Personally, I prefer to be breast fed in privacy, but that's my own personal choice, freedom to those that feel otherwise!
but that's my own personal choice, freedom to those that feel otherwise!*My Inner Child is A Fucking Prick Too!
*Everyones entitled to be stupid but you are abusing the priviledge
*Well I'd love to stay & chat, But youre a total Bitch! {Stewie}
*Everyones entitled to be stupid but you are abusing the priviledge
*Well I'd love to stay & chat, But youre a total Bitch! {Stewie}
I am not sure what your problem is but the fact of the matter is that I am not the one that started trying to provoke anyone with idiotic insults. Why the fuck do people like you come on to this site to fire stupid insults at people who did not insult you. Why do people like you deliberately try to provoke fights. What the hell is wrong with people like you?
I really don't care to take the time to look up breast feeding habits of 12 year olds on line nor do I care to. If that bothers you so much then don't read my posts.
If you had taken the time to read my prior posts on this subject you might have seen that I was actually quite willing to discuss this and hear other viewpoints. I was supportive of public breastfeeding. I was quite vocal about the fact that if people don't like it then they should simply look the other way. Yet for some reason you attacked me for wanting to "impose my morality on others" simply because I was caught off gaurd by the idea of a 6 year old sucking on a womans tit's. If your problem is me personally, then do not debate with me but don't fucking snip at me when you clearly have not been reading my posts on the matter.
I will be thrilled to ignore you, why don't you do the same.
Richards