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Bye_gravity

MARD Trap System on Mirage?

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I heard Mirage offers something called MARD Trap RSL as an alternative to the Skyhook on their rigs. Has anyone had experience with it yet?

On the page it clearly states that MARD will need maintenance every 3 cutaways which seems like a big hassle.
" How many times can I use it?
It doesn't have a limit, but we require that it be sent back to Mirage for re-inspection after 3 uses
. "

And there's a brief description on its functionality:
"...The Trap System is not attached to your reserve until your RSL is actually used. It's a true 'non-interference' system. This means that it doesn't need to disconnect itself for a normal reserve deployment such as a reserve pull without a main out or an AAD fire. Your reserve won't know it's there until/unless it's Trap'd."

I don't think skyhook would need a maintenance back at UPT after three uses, moreover it's been proven reliable...;) Anyway I just prefer the look of Mirage over Javelin... but for the sake of my life I would still trust skyhook a bit more, plus it's like a Cypress with the durability of Vigil compares to MARD, if you know what I mean.:)
You fly with the wind, or the wind flies you.

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From the looks of it the TRAP system looks perfectly fine and it will probaply work as well as skyhook... If you want mirage with MARD it's your only option as far as I know...

Also, how often do you plan on cutting away? three times before inspection should mean years of use...

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How many cutaways are you planning per season?
:S

Here is how it works and maybe this explains the idea of having maintenance after 3 uses.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tJRtrqqnHAQ
For me, I like the idea of not having a solid peace of metal at my reserve bridle.
but that is up to everyone to decide for him-/herself.

I´m jumping Mirage since years and have a cypres.
If I would have started with my first gear, imagine having a Mirage and the TRAP 28 years ago, I still didn´t have to send it back for maintenance (< 3 cutaways).
--------------------------------------------------

With sufficient thrust,
pigs just fly well

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It doesn't have a limit, but we require that it be sent back to Mirage for re-inspection after 3 uses. "




It is relatively new. It is made of nylon, not metal. They think it is rugged enough, but just to be sure they would like to inspect it if you ever get up to three cutaways. That could be three jumps from now or 30 years from now, who knows?

I would not hesitate to choose a Mirage if that was the container I wanted over this small matter.
Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

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Bye_gravity

On the page it clearly states that MARD will need maintenance every 3 cutaways which seems like a big hassle.



Wow! Nice catch.

I don't see Mirage advertising that.

I couldn't even find that until I googled and found it way down hidden in a long list of FAQs in tiny print.

That is NOT IN THE MANUALS as far as I can tell.
I couldn't find it in the sections on packing the Trap, or Limited Life Components, or Inspections.

Nor is it part of their News at their web site -- Creating a life limit for a component of the harness is big news!

(So, if it isn't in a manual, or an official bulletin, what weight does it have legally? I'm tired of the B.S. about following manufacturers' instructions when they hide stuff here and there, so that the only technically legal way to pack a reserve is to look at every page of their entire web site every repack.)

Sending a whole container back to the manufacturer is a big pain, especially for those away from the United States. Mirage's wording doesn't even technically allow for packing without the Trap, so if you have mal #3 (non-total) at a boogie you are screwed, even if you find your freebag and keep your handles. (Or send it in during the off-season after 2 uses..)

The "3 uses then inspection" wouldn't be a bother for most people, but I have a swooper as a rigging customer who would have had to send such a rig in twice in the last 10 years.

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pchapman

***On the page it clearly states that MARD will need maintenance every 3 cutaways which seems like a big hassle.



Wow! Nice catch.

I don't see Mirage advertising that.

I couldn't even find that until I googled and found it way down hidden in a long list of FAQs in tiny print.

That is NOT IN THE MANUALS as far as I can tell.
I couldn't find it in the sections on packing the Trap, or Limited Life Components, or Inspections.

Nor is it part of their News at their web site -- Creating a life limit for a component of the harness is big news!

(So, if it isn't in a manual, or an official bulletin, what weight does it have legally? I'm tired of the B.S. about following manufacturers' instructions when they hide stuff here and there, so that the only technically legal way to pack a reserve is to look at every page of their entire web site every repack.)

Sending a whole container back to the manufacturer is a big pain, especially for those away from the United States. Mirage's wording doesn't even technically allow for packing without the Trap, so if you have mal #3 (non-total) at a boogie you are screwed, even if you find your freebag and keep your handles. (Or send it in during the off-season after 2 uses..)

The "3 uses then inspection" wouldn't be a bother for most people, but I have a swooper as a rigging customer who would have had to send such a rig in twice in the last 10 years.



Thanks for spotting that Peter. This is a good example of the laxness in maintaining adequate manuals found in smaller gear companies in general. As far as I'm concerned, if it is not in the manual or an SB it is not real.

As much as I like Mirage containers I would not buy or recommend one because of the lack of support they offer. I know people who have needed information for older Mirages and have been told that "that was made before we bought the company and we can't help you". They don't support their products all that well.

It's difficult for small companies in this industry. They also recently stated they don't have the resources to maintain and update their website properly. They make a very nice product, but they could easily close up shop at any time.

Buyer beware. I advise people to stick with the larger makers these days. Generally the ones that also do a lot of military business and therefore have more staying power.

That said, I still like both the Mirage and the trap System.
Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

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The company was purchased 20 years ago. All Mirages built in the last 20 years are still serviced.




And any from before 1997 are not then. When will the company be sold yet again and have new owners who once again disavow any responsibility for the product? That's crap.

You can get parts and service and info for older Javelins, Vectors, Talons, Racers etc. For some reason the owner of Mirage thought that once he acquired the tso that was all he needed from the company. Just cut the old customers loose. We don't need them, we can get new ones.

Why would anyone take a chance on a buying a product from someone who would do that? Mirages are very nice rigs. Even the older non supported ones. But I would never buy one or recommend one to anyone. Service matters.
Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

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gowlerk


Why would anyone take a chance on a buying a product from someone who would do that? Mirages are very nice rigs. Even the older non supported ones. But I would never buy one or recommend one to anyone. Service matters.



So should I better off just get a Javelin? As far as I know odyssey is versatile enough to be used for FF and WS in the future with no requirement of further modification. But still, on Javelin is just that freaking giant circle thing right under the main flaps bug the shoes out of me...
You fly with the wind, or the wind flies you.

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Bye_gravity


So should I better off just get a Javelin? As far as I know odyssey is versatile enough to be used for FF and WS in the future with no requirement of further modification. But still, on Javelin is just that freaking giant circle thing right under the main flaps bug the shoes out of me...



Ok, take it easy...
It's starting to look like you don't know too much about rigs and need to take some time to absorb info from other skydivers around the DZ, before asking a million questions and deciding what rig you must have.
(Yes, the Javelin can be used for freefly...)
Still, good catch on the Mirage Trap inspection thing.

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But still, on Javelin is just that freaking giant circle thing right under the main flaps bug the shoes out of me...




There are basically two styles of container to choose from. (not counting Racer, which is actually a third concept). The fully enclosed reserve pilot chute and the semi exposed pilot chute. The Javelin is of the second type, and that "freaking giant circle thing" is the cap on the reserve pilot chute. It is actually under the reserve flaps and not the main flaps. Wings, Glides, Vortex are other examples. The first type is the fully enclosed type. Mirage, Vector, Talon, and many others are examples.

It's a little like buying a car. The style and marketing often are more important than the engineering. Mostly because we can understand style so much better than we understand technical details. The other thing that matters is service and support. Of all the choices out there the Sunpath Javelin and the UPT Vector have the best support.

It's your money. Buy something that you will be happy to own and wear. Mirages look and are built awesome. They are not a bad choice, just not my first choice for the reason I stated. I'm a rigger and I deal with servicing these things, so I get exposed to problems as they occur. Your average Mirage owner is usually very happy with them.

There are arguments for and against both, but both have proven themselves to be safe effective designs over many years. That said, you probably should not buy a container with a design that "bugs" you. I prefer to give general guidance rather than firm recommendations in situations like this. It encourages learning. But with that said, the advice betzilla just gave a few minutes ago is pretty darn solid.
Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

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Bye_gravity

On the page it clearly states that MARD will need maintenance every 3 cutaways which seems like a big hassle.



I suspect this would be because due to its nature the "lasso" could cause friction burns on itself and possibly other components.
For the record the red lanyard on the Skyhook has been known to break and the lexan covers are susceptible to damage too so that system is hardly maintenance free either.

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I'm a rigger and I deal with servicing these things, so I get exposed to problems as they occur. Your average Mirage owner is usually very happy with them.




I find your initial comments on customer service of Mirage Systems a bit puzzling - but I understand everybody's experience is different. Personally I have had those experiences with UPT and Sunpath, but never Mirage (and I've ordered parts for some old RTS units). Did you have multiple issues with Mirage or was it a one time experience?
=========Shaun ==========


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Unstable

Did you have multiple issues with Mirage or was it a one time experience?



FWIW, I had a couple bad experiences with Mirage's customer service and company memory and rigging ability, as noted in the following post (that also quoted a few others) from earlier in 2017:
http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=4839070#4839070

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