StreetScooby 5 #26 September 20, 2006 Quote Thus, for the same reasons California should pay a lot for energy, so, too, should places like New York pay a lot for food. p.s. - my previous post was sarcastic... Most of New York is farm country. We'd do fine on our own.We are all engines of karma Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,395 #27 September 20, 2006 >Most of New York is farm country. We'd do fine on our own. Most of my roof is solar panels. I do fine on my own (when it comes to power.) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
StreetScooby 5 #28 September 20, 2006 Quote Most of my roof is solar panels. Let me guess... You put them in yourself?We are all engines of karma Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
masterrig 1 #29 September 20, 2006 QuoteQuoteSomebody looking for a huge settlement... so they can buy that Hummer they've dreamed of! Chuck Actually, it's the government doing it. Nobody is better at getting money that the government. ____________________________ You got that right! Chuck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stoneycase 0 #30 September 20, 2006 Quote That's what the libertarians prefer. Get rid of all environmental laws and use the courts for _everything_. I don't think that works too well, myself. Suing companies like this is the wrong way to go about achieving reductions in CO2 emissions. A better way to do it is through the CARB (california air resources board) which sets fleet limits for pollution. That way companies can plan ahead and ensure that they can meet the new standards. Respectfully disagree. CARB is no more effective than CAFE - which is a complete joke. I'm young, so what do I know though, right? Well here's what I do know - in order to force change you must make someone *feel pain*. If this is the AG's plan to do that, than more power to him. I, for one, do not believe that CARB or CAFE regs will do anything to change the current situation. Companies won't "plan ahead" Bill, they'll do what they've done for years - counter with their own lawyers and tie it up in the courts. I think you're being overly optimistic when you estimate how "well" companies will fall in line with CARB and "plan ahead". I'd imagine more planning and resources going into attacking and defending rather than complying. I'd have to agree with Rocket, this looks to me to be a "Plan B". And he's right, no one is better at squeezing blood from a stone than the Gov. I say file suit, scare the automakers a little, cost them a fortune in legal fees. Send Detroit into a little faster tornado spin. IMHO, Detroit failed this country long ago and it's about time we started realizing that and swinging the door in the other direction. YMMV, much like the MPG of your vehicle and the price at the local pump! /CA resident, where I'm lucky to get $3/gall for 87 //trips to the DZ, yeah right. I literally budget trips to the damn grocery store nowDoes whisky count as beer? - Homer There's no justice like angry mob justice. - Skinner Be careful. There's a limited future in low pulls - JohnMitchell Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,395 #31 September 20, 2006 >Respectfully disagree. CARB is no more effective than CAFE - which >is a complete joke. ?? Uh, both worked and accomplished their goals. When they were first proposed, the car/oil industries cried "this will destroy us! No one will be able to afford cars! Horrors!" And yet today LA is between 50% and 90% cleaner, cars are (on average) more fuel efficient if you exclude the SUV loophole, they're no more expensive in adjusted dollars, and more people than ever before own cars. CARB/CAFE are examples of some things that government got right. >Companies won't "plan ahead" Bill, they'll do what they've done >for years - counter with their own lawyers and tie it up in the courts. Sure, they'll try. But what's been happening lately is that when US automakers try to sue and get a law repealed, foreign automakers just start making (and selling) the new technology vehicles. Another few cycles like that and there won't _be_ any US automakers left, and the problem will solve itself. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gawain 0 #32 September 21, 2006 QuoteQuoteSuing companies like this is the wrong way to go about achieving reductions in CO2 emissions. A better way to do it is through the CARB (california air resources board) which sets fleet limits for pollution. That way companies can plan ahead and ensure that they can meet the new standards. Bill have you ever thought of running for office? Seriously. judy Don't worry if he doesn't, because someday I will, and I'll be enlisting Bill as my advisor for the Environment, Energy, Technology, Development.... In reference to Bill's post: CARB is already essentially setting the standard for the nation. This lawsuit does nothing, in fact, it's akin to failed attempts at suing gun manufacturers.So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright 'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life Make light! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freethefly 6 #33 September 21, 2006 Why not sue cattle as well as they contribute just as much to the greenhouse effect. I am proposing that each and every cow be fitted with a catalytic converter. That should do it."...And once you're gone, you can't come back When you're out of the blue and into the black." Neil Young Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
StreetScooby 5 #34 September 21, 2006 Quote between 50% and 90% cleaner Well, that certainly narrows it down We are all engines of karma Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
StreetScooby 5 #35 September 21, 2006 Quote Don't worry if he doesn't, because someday I will, and I'll be enlisting Bill as my advisor for the Environment, Energy, Technology, Development.... Bill has already said he's going to keep his day job, and that's a good thing, IMO. We are all engines of karma Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freethefly 6 #36 September 21, 2006 The answer to global warming"...And once you're gone, you can't come back When you're out of the blue and into the black." Neil Young Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,395 #37 September 21, 2006 >Well, that certainly narrows it down Depends on pollutant. Particulates are down 50%. Hydrocarbons are down 90%. Ozone, 75%. Some days you can see the mountains! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
StreetScooby 5 #38 September 21, 2006 Quote Some days you can see the mountains! I remember driving through Los Angeles in the mid 80s, descending into that bowl of haze. I wanted to hold my breath We are all engines of karma Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
masterrig 1 #39 September 21, 2006 QuoteThe answer to global warming ________________________________ Cattle aren't the only creatures that give-off 'bad' gasses. Why pick on just cattle? Chuck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freethefly 6 #40 September 21, 2006 QuoteCattle aren't the only creatures that give-off 'bad' gasses. Why pick on just cattle? I have cattle on two sides of my place and horses on one. Maybe, I am prejudice against cattleLOL"...And once you're gone, you can't come back When you're out of the blue and into the black." Neil Young Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
masterrig 1 #41 September 21, 2006 QuoteQuoteCattle aren't the only creatures that give-off 'bad' gasses. Why pick on just cattle? I have cattle on two sides of my place and horses on one. Maybe, I am prejudice against cattleLOL _______________________________ Here in Texas, we call that smell... 'the smell of money!' Were the cattle there before you moved there or did they show-up later? Chuck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Channman 2 #42 September 21, 2006 > I think this is another waste of time and money. Coming from the Left Coast, this is not a waste of time but it's all about the MONEY. > boats, lawn mowers, weed eaters, tractors, chain saws, or anything that runs on gas? How do Airplanes rate on how much global warming does it cause. Those lawsuits are pending release I'm sure. Truely a friendly state to open a business and hey how about them 50 year mortgages im hearing about in Cal. that will prehibit the average family of ever obtaining financial independence. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,395 #43 September 21, 2006 >hey how about them 50 year mortgages im hearing about in Cal . . . And Florida, and Illinois, and New York. But never mind 50 year mortgages. 75 year and 100 year mortgages are in the works. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Channman 2 #44 September 21, 2006 > 75 year and 100 year mortgages are in the works. Maybe those banks know something about our Health Care Technology allowing us to live longer to pay in $100s of thousands more in interest. 75 - 100 year mortgages!!! tell me its not so. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,395 #45 September 21, 2006 >75 - 100 year mortgages!!! tell me its not so. Why not? It's a perfect tie-in to our debt-based society. You won't ever pay it back, but so what? Payments will be slightly less, and it's not as if most americans are ever debt-free anyway. Free money! (in their eyes.) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lindsey 0 #46 September 21, 2006 QuoteQuoteCattle aren't the only creatures that give-off 'bad' gasses. Why pick on just cattle? I have cattle on two sides of my place and horses on one. Maybe, I am prejudice against cattleLOL We only have cattle. Horse just doesn't taste right. linz-- A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freethefly 6 #47 September 21, 2006 QuoteHere in Texas, we call that smell... 'the smell of money!' Were the cattle there before you moved there or did they show-up later? I admit, they were here first. This is, afterall, Missouri, the largest cattle producing state. Now that the word is out that I am prejudice on cattle (my dads side of the family are all hog farmers up by St. Joseph) I expect to see flaming branding irons in my front yard. Cattle in sheets calling for my lynching. The Ku Klux Kattle are not to be messed with here in the Ozarks."...And once you're gone, you can't come back When you're out of the blue and into the black." Neil Young Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
masterrig 1 #48 September 22, 2006 QuoteQuoteHere in Texas, we call that smell... 'the smell of money!' Were the cattle there before you moved there or did they show-up later? I admit, they were here first. This is, afterall, Missouri, the largest cattle producing state. Now that the word is out that I am prejudice on cattle (my dads side of the family are all hog farmers up by St. Joseph) I expect to see flaming branding irons in my front yard. Cattle in sheets calling for my lynching. The Ku Klux Kattle are not to be messed with here in the Ozarks. ______________________________ Bwa-hahahahaha... I'm just laughing at the way you worded that. It just came across as funny. Are you sure, Missouri, is the largest cattle producing state? Ever hear of Texas? The only advice I have is, be certain, you can out-run your neighbor's bull! Well, good luck to you! Chuck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freethefly 6 #49 September 22, 2006 I have to retract and say that Mo. is second in beef cattle to Texas. Oh, I use to live in Mexia, Texas and work on the Southern Pacific from Dallas down to Flatonia and over to El Paso."...And once you're gone, you can't come back When you're out of the blue and into the black." Neil Young Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
masterrig 1 #50 September 22, 2006 QuoteI have to retract and say that Mo. is second in beef cattle to Texas. Oh, I use to live in Mexia, Texas and work on the Southern Pacific from Dallas down to Flatonia and over to El Paso. ____________________________ What did you do for the RR? Seems like that would be an interesting job. Well, good luck to you and those cows. Chuck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
